Do you believe in an afterlife or next life?

[Bishadi]

Originally Posted by spidergoat


"We", the personal ego, or sense of being, is an illusion created by the brain. "We" never really existed except as a state, a particular arrangement of matter. The matter doesn't go away, but that state is disrupted, never to appear again in that exact form. The form is echoed in other people who share a great deal of our pattern through the mechanism of culture. The body does live on as other bodies when we reproduce and can be thought of as a continuum.



that state is the coherance of the life (em)

like the flame of a lighter; once sparked it will burn until the environment changes (fuel/air..etc...)

we just that light (coherance of mind/memories: energy upon mass)


to the religious; think of it as confirming the 'light of life' or the aura.....

the spirit, the embodiment..................... the list is hugenormous throughout the religions

what i like is the fathers aspect......

if each parent gives a sperm/egg to combine, the light of each combines to make the new shade (you)... well they still live in that child (think of cellular biology, the first gives a portion of itself for the next generation)

that also combines with Adam giving up a Rib to make an Eve; He gave a portion of himself to make the next....

well then go back and find the original LIGHT of god is what is within the first, all the way to the last; equally

such that each child has their parents, since the beginning of time; alive within them.

To comprehend that means your parents have been raised (to your awareness)

then when you 'honor your mother and father' you are doing GOOD (contributing for life; they live)

we just rocks that can roll... and know it!

kind of cool eh?

 

[NDS]

Thoughts can be detected and, to some extent, measured.
The spirit can't.
Non-physical and sentient?
Any evidence?
Another dimension?
Any evidence?

Hmmmmmmm. Yes, parts of the brain light up on certain equipment when we are thinking about certain things, but this doesn't measure the origination of that thought, namely the intention. In other words, the brain lighting up, those thoughts to me are only manifestations of the spirit. They are the same, yet different.

I have zero evidence for anything I'm saying. But you don't have any evidence that what I'm saying isn't true either since we're talking about something which can't be proven.

I have formed my opinion of the spirit and of life through a combination a logic, evidence, and feeling.

Logic - I believe anything is possible. I believe logically that since the range of human perception in terms of light, sound, etc. is less than .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %, there is a lot we can't see/hear/sense, therefore there is a lot that we don't know that we don't know.

We've all heard the saying that we there are things we know, don't know, and don't know that we don't know.

Logically, if more dimensions are possible which we can't understand, then this lends to the possibility of a spiritual realm, and spirits.

Evidence - All storied of near death experiences out there and other strange psychic phenomena, to me, denote something beyond the physcial.

Feeling - I have the feeling of intention, of self. This is the weakest argument, I know, but I can't deny what I feel.

 

[Bishadi]

Okay, I think I see what your saying. But my theory makes the admittedly large assumption that space and time are independent of our spirits/souls, and that there is something, possible other dimensions, or another realm of sort independent of and existing simultaneously with this physical world, which your above explanation is referring to.

So everything you said above I think is correct, but it excludes the idea of another spiritual realm beyond it. This is where our beliefs start to differ.

that is beautifully put

we differ in the analogy

sure the life is in another dimension; each moment in time is another dimension. That slice is then and now is now, before was back when.

What entangles that mass is the energy. I wrote now, on what you said then, to be read NOW by you.

I believe that time, just like the color red, is a perception created by the mind. I guess space probably is too.

in life, time is relevant; of and individual perspective any time can be described

So I think the illusion is not necessarily the self, but the world that the self is in, namely this lower dimension, 3D/time world.

that is the one you and I are articulating in

the rest are the illusions we are describing

 

[NDS]

Originally Posted by spidergoat


"We", the personal ego, or sense of being, is an illusion created by the brain. "We" never really existed except as a state, a particular arrangement of matter. The matter doesn't go away, but that state is disrupted, never to appear again in that exact form. The form is echoed in other people who share a great deal of our pattern through the mechanism of culture. The body does live on as other bodies when we reproduce and can be thought of as a continuum.



that state is the coherance of the life (em)

like the flame of a lighter; once sparked it will burn until the environment changes (fuel/air..etc...)

we just that light (coherance of mind/memories: energy upon mass)


to the religious; think of it as confirming the 'light of life' or the aura.....

the spirit, the embodiment..................... the list is hugenormous throughout the religions

what i like is the fathers aspect......

if each parent gives a sperm/egg to combine, the light of each combines to make the new shade (you)... well they still live in that child (think of cellular biology, the first gives a portion of itself for the next generation)

that also combines with Adam giving up a Rib to make an Eve; He gave a portion of himself to make the next....

well then go back and find the original LIGHT of god is what is within the first, all the way to the last; equally

such that each child has their parents, since the beginning of time; alive within them.

To comprehend that means your parents have been raised (to your awareness)

then when you 'honor your mother and father' you are doing GOOD (contributing for life; they live)

we just rocks that can roll... and know it!

kind of cool eh?

I love your theory, Bishadi. Seems like a Buddhist type mode of thought. Do you believe in reincarnation? I've the flame analogy used in Buddhism as well. Something like, we are a flame and when we die our flame is simply transferred to another candle.

But again, to me your theory is built on the world perceived by our extremely narrow sensory awareness, again less than .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%.

My theory is based on the possibility of something we can't see or prove with this narrow field of awarewess.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Hmmmmmmm. Yes, parts of the brain light up on certain equipment when we are thinking about certain things, but this doesn't measure the origination of that thought, namely the intention. In other words, the brain lighting up, those thoughts to me are only manifestations of the spirit. They are the same, yet different.

Supposition.

I have zero evidence for anything I'm saying. But you don't have any evidence that what I'm saying isn't true either since we're talking about something which can't be proven.

If can't be proven (or even detected) then it's fruitless speculation.

I have formed my opinion of the spirit and of life through a combination a logic, evidence, and feeling.

In other words a personal viewpoint.

Logic - I believe anything is possible.

Patently untrue.

I believe logically that since the range of human perception in terms of light, sound, etc. is less than .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %, there is a lot we can't see/hear/sense, therefore there is a lot that we don't know that we don't know.

Facile comment.
The percentage is of what?
How did you arrive at that actual value?
More speculation and supposition?

We've all heard the saying that we there are things we know, don't know, and don't know that we don't know.

So what?
We've all also heard the saying a watched pot never boils.
I've proved that one wrong many times...

Logically, if more dimensions are possible which we can't understand, then this lends to the possibility of a spiritual realm, and spirits.

Again, so what?
Logically if these other dimensions exist then we can either detect them (and prove them - which we haven't done) or we can't detect them and therefore they're irrelevant since they don't interact.

Evidence - All storied of near death experiences out there and other strange psychic phenomena, to me, denote something beyond the physcial.

Nope, they point to delusion, wishful thinking and errors of perception/ interpretation (or in the case of NDEs probably drug overdose - internal natural drugs).

Feeling - I have the feeling of intention, of self. This is the weakest argument, I know, but I can't deny what I feel.

We all have feelings.
"She's the one for me".
"One more drink won't hurt".
Doesn't mean they're infallible.

 

[NDS]

sure the life is in another dimension; each moment in time is another dimension. That slice is then and now is now, before was back when.

What entangles that mass is the energy. I wrote now, on what you said then, to be read NOW by you.

in life, time is relevant; of and individual perspective any time can be described



that is the one you and I are articulating in

the rest are the illusions we are describing

Wow, I've never seen it that way. Each moment in time as another dimension. That is excellent, and seems very logcially possible to me.

I think I'm starting to see what your saying now, but as we both know, language is very limited, and I wish I understood your theory the way "you" do. I will continue to think about it and I hope it clicks at some point. I'd love to keep this dialogue going though, because I want to learn more about your thoery and how can I can better think about it, because it sounds very plausible.

Now, in terms of time. You said that each moment of time can be simply a different manifestation of another dimiension.

My problem is this: I can't understand what "ONE" moment in time is. Right? Tell me what the smallest moment in time is. A second? .00001 seconds? .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds?


Logically, since I can't pinpoint one moment in time, It;s hard for me to separate time into different segments.

 

[Bishadi]

Seems like a Buddhist type mode of thought. Do you believe in reincarnation?

Put into life, you live there. Basically what choice enabled.

Good lives longer

But my memories going to an utter body, life, thought of 'i' being; nope

one bump in the head; all memories gone (ie.. or even alzheimers)

does 'existence' retain actions (kind of record memories)? well sure, just not from OUR perspectives (individually) But see the rings on a tree stump; that identified recording of 'weather' can be described. Memories are of body as experienced in that moment in time, recorded within the body, not the energy itself. The environment was 'there' too so that occurance is recorded but your perspective may not be the same as any others.

I've the flame analogy used in Buddhism as well. Something like, we are a flame and when we die our flame is simply transferred to another candle.

sure the life, not the memories

But again, to me your theory is built on the world perceived by our extremely narrow sensory awareness, again less than .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 001%.

from the globes knowledge

basically our brothers who gave and left something to learn (words transcend time), i chose to experience what many from all four corners of the earth had to share. (no bias in a quest of such)

Each moment in time as another dimension. That is excellent, and seems very logcially possible to me.

if each can experience the same, then truth shares it evolution

Now, in terms of time. You said that each moment of time can be simply a different manifestation of another dimiension.

what you know 'right now' evolved from all you learned from then

and much of what you learned is from both experience of NOW but also from material written a long time ago; but you can experience each time observed

maintain that perspective of your involvement

My problem is this: I can't understand what "ONE" moment in time is. Right? Tell me what the smallest moment in time is. A second? .00001 seconds? .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds?

silly

there is a law about that; something about always being able to cut it in half, once again

can't pin it "all" down but we can define the process in between

Logically, since I can't pinpoint one moment in time, It;s hard for me to separate time into different segments.

perspective....

what system are you working on?

 

[NDS]

Dywyddyr:

Okay, everything you said is true to some extent. Could NDE's be simply the result of delusions created by the mind and by chemicals? Yes. But as I am hopeful for a spirit and afterlife, I choose to view them my way. This doesn't automatically mean I'm wrong though, just because I hope I'm right. Not to mention, I've read or heard about many different "psychic" activities which point to something beyond the physical at work.

Now, even if drugs are involved, that doesn't automatically mean everything the person is experiencing is simply a dream or delusion created by the mind. The drugs may simply allow the user's spirit/soul to leave the body, if only temporarily.

Joe Rogan's use of DMT seems to be a great example of a spirit leaving the physical body, or at least having our very narrow (.00000001) window of awareness opened to see the other possible dimensions and realms out there.

Please watch this and tell me what you think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8

I'd love to try DMT and experience it myself, but I wouldn't know where to get it. I've had Salvia 10x extraxt once. It was very intense and lasted only 5-10 minutes, just like DMT. I don't remember much of it, but trust me, I was definitly not in this world anymore. The interesting thing though is, I don't think I ever fullly lost my sense of self.

I think they call those dissasiative drugs though because your spirit literally disassociates from the physical body. That's my opinion.

Now, let's look at the idea that our field of awareness is very small:

I said:

I believe logically that since the range of human perception in terms of light, sound, etc. is less than .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00001 %, there is a lot we can't see/hear/sense, therefore there is a lot that we don't know that we don't know.

You said:

Facile comment.
The percentage is of what?
How did you arrive at that actual value?
More speculation and supposition?

The percentage of awareness in terms of sight is in terms of waves of light. For examplke, we can't see infared light. It is out of our range.

The percentage in terms of hearing is in terms of waves of sound. We can't hear dog whistles, etc.

Not speculation. This is science. Look up sight, light waves, sound waves, and all that.


Have you ever seen the movie "What the bleep do we Know?" Excellent movie which delves into all of this, including quantum physics, psychic shit, etc. This is where I learned about our .00000000001 narrow field of awareness.

I very strongly recommend you to watch this movie.

A lot of stuff in this movie explains some of the stuff I've been talking about and some the parts of my theory. You will love it.

Here is the link to the part 1, but it has like 10. You'll find them easily.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSk51Lp-vHU&feature=PlayList&p=B13F881195866370&index=0

 

[NDS]

silly

there is a law about that; something about always being able to cut it in half, once again

can't pin it "all" down but we can define the process in between

Ya, I know the law your talking about but also forgot the name of it. It involves an arrow and target, right? That actually applied to space. I was referring to time, though I don't think either oof them are real anyway.

Actually, I would think that the fact that there is no one moment of time would mean that we can indeed pin it "all" down because there IS no in between. If there is no one moment in time, then time is simply one thing no matter how many individual seconds are in that one thing. We decribe blocks of time, events, such as days. Buut within those blocks of time are more time, smaller segments, on and on and on.

This applies to space too like in the arrow and target law thing? What's the smallest point in space? .0001 inches? .000000000001 inches?

This supports my theory of an individual spirit becuase I believe in a realm or state beyond space and time, waves, etc. The fact that one moment in time or one point in space suggests, at least to me, that this world is simply an illusion and that there must be something behind it.

 

[Dywyddyr]

But as I am hopeful for a spirit and afterlife, I choose to view them my way. This doesn't automatically mean I'm wrong though, just because I hope I'm right.

So it comes down to hope on your part.

Not to mention, I've read or heard about many different "psychic" activities which point to something beyond the physical at work.

Unfortunately no.
They point to delusion, misinterpretation and/ or fraud.

Now, even if drugs are involved, that doesn't automatically mean everything the person is experiencing is simply a dream or delusion created by the mind. The drugs may simply allow the user's spirit/soul to leave the body, if only temporarily.

Again unfortunately no.
You have to prove that the soul exists before you can decide it's going elsewhere.

Joe Rogan's use of DMT seems to be a great example of a spirit leaving the physical body, or at least having our very narrow (.00000001) window of awareness opened to see the other possible dimensions and realms out there.

Once more: where do you get this 0.00001% figure from?

I think they call those dissasiative drugs though because your spirit literally disassociates from the physical body. That's my opinion.

I see. Opinion.

The percentage of awareness in terms of sight is in terms of waves of light. For examplke, we can't see infared light. It is out of our range.
The percentage in terms of hearing is in terms of waves of sound. We can't hear dog whistles, etc.
Not speculation. This is science. Look up sight, light waves, sound waves, and all that.

Wrong again.
Since we haven't yet found an upper limit for wavelength (especially in the EM spectrum) we can't give a definite figure on what number is available.
Might as well call it infinite.
Any number divided by infinity is zero.

Have you ever seen the movie "What the bleep do we Know?" Excellent movie which delves into all of this, including quantum physics, psychic shit, etc. This is where I learned about our .00000000001 narrow field of awareness.

Nope and I don't want to.
Pseudoscience, New Age bullshit and sheer nonsense.

I very strongly recommend you to watch this movie.

After my lobotomy.

A lot of stuff in this movie explains some of the stuff I've been talking about and some the parts of my theory. You will love it.

No it explains nothing, it makes stuff up.
I'll hate it.
In fact I took a quick look: specious bullshit.

 

[Bishadi]

Actually, I would think that the fact that there is no one moment of time would mean that we can indeed pin it "all" down because there IS no in between.

but to do that would meaning combining all mass, all energy and all time into that ONE.

then you are holding existence itself in your hand. (all that is, at the same time)

i call that 'trinity' of the combined three into ONE; God (mother nature, existence itself; the boss)

and that 'process' is what 'we the people' have been defining, within existence.

that 'named' process in math could be the long sought name of....

This applies to space too like in the arrow and target law thing? What's the smallest point in space? .0001 inches? .000000000001 inches?

there is no space without energy over time

neither can exist without the other and why the postulate of "there is no such thing as a 'perfect' vacuum between points of mass"

as each are entangled to the other!

that this world is simply an illusion and that there must be something behind it.

what?

the process exists

we just within the total observing what existence revealed over time

think of it another way:

we are all within existence; so we are of it (its' creation)

yet within, mankind created words (like fractals; self reflecting)

IS existence defining itself?

 

[Dywyddyr]

IS existence defining itself?

No.
Still spouting your nonsense I see.

 

[Doreen]

No.
Still spouting your nonsense I see.

When we define ourselves, how else would you describe that?

 

[Dywyddyr]

When we define ourselves, how else would you describe that?

Quite simply the way you phrased it: defining ourselves.
WE do not speak for the entirety of existence.
Existence does not and cannot define itself.
We can define existence (but merely on a personal level - existence has no duty to conform to our definition).

 

[(Q)]

Hmmmmmmm.
I have zero evidence for anything I'm saying. But you don't have any evidence that what I'm saying isn't true either since we're talking about something which can't be proven.

Every fantasy ever conceived has that tattooed to it somewhere. All that it demonstrates is that people have over-active imaginations.

 

[Hapsburg]

Do you believe we can free ourselves from reincarnation process?

No. I don't see the reincarnation process as something to be "freed" from. It is what it is.
And, yes, I do believe that all souls are individual entities, regardless of how many times they are reborn.

 

[swarm]

No. I don't see the reincarnation process as something to be "freed" from. It is what it is.
And, yes, I do believe that all souls are individual entities, regardless of how many times they are reborn.

So, what is the difference between rebirth where nothing is retained, vs, single birth where nothing is retained? The only one I can think of is people who believe in rebirth tend to pick up some bad habits, like justifying ill as payback from previous lives and putting off what must be done now for "future" lives.

What is the difference between a soul you have no evidence for and a non existent soul? Except perhaps that soulers tend to denigrate the body.

But there is a rebirth, only it happens while you are alive. The incarnation process begins when you pass on 1/2 your accumulated interactions with reality with another to form your next generation. Call it soul or karma or DNA, but it is what results in your rebirth and then the fruiting body withers and dies.

There is also escape. Don't pass anything on.

 

[swarm]

only I was DEAD! Then the doctors revived me

Not to say you weren't in mortal peril, but if you were revived, you weren't actually dead.

You were unconscious, possibly with a failure in one or more major organs. At only 3 mins, you hadn't started to have cell death yet, even in the brain that takes about 6 min normally. The "white light" and out of body experiences seem to be from when the brains cells go into over excitatory states from low oxygen and released endogenous ketamine like substances (dissociatives) as neuro protectants along with other psychoactive compounds such as endorphins (opoids).

Given the mix it is little wonder people with near death experience have a pretty trippy time.

But if the over excitatory state is not checked by the reintroduction of oxygen, the brain literally burns itself out long before the rest of the body fails. Thus there is that awkward period where a person's body can be revived, but their brain has already destroyed itself, aka brain dead.

 

[swarm]

I hope there is something after death. For me, the idea of ceasing to exist when I die is terrifying.

It is only terrifying if you choose to terrify yourself about it.

People have such linear takes on this. Why be reborn as some one else? if there is rebirth it would seem to be far more reasonable to be reborn as yourself, again, until you get it right.

 

[swarm]

In answer to the poll, there is no need to believe.