Did Jesus Suffer Enough?
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
because if they had done the other thing (not eaten), god would have known that too.
Suppose someone tells (asks) a person who needs a dollar to dig a hole and the person telling (asking) them to dig the hole has the dollar sticking out of his back pocket and easily grabbed. The person has two choices - dig a small hole or take the dollar from the pocket when the guys back is towards him.
It is just the difference between right and wrong. Does not have to be a dollar, could be anything a person needs like being friends with someone takes some work, in the long term too. I am merely pointing out some errors you made and not saying this articular story is true because i dont recall ever reading it.
That is the very essence of free will so i dont see why you would question it. Freewill just means the ability (allowance) to make decisions but also bad decisions too because then where is the freewill?
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What makes you say that?
Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
How coud they have done anythang other than what God knew for certan they woud do... which was eat the apple.??? ”
Did God have free will to create the necesary circumstances so his creation woud behave esactly the way he wanted.???
Did God create Adam an Eve an ther enviroment in such a way that them eatin the apple was inevitable.???
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God knew for certan that if he created Adam an Eve acordin to the plan he had in mind that they woud eat the apple... an knowin this... God put his creaton plan into action... so did God want Adam an Eve to eat the apple... or did he not care if they ate the apple or not.???
How coud they have done anythang other than what God knew for certan they woud do... which was eat the apple.??? ”
Did God have free will to create the necesary circumstances so his creation woud behave esactly the way he wanted.???
Did God create Adam an Eve an ther enviroment in such a way that them eatin the apple was inevitable.???
Edit:::
God knew for certan that if he created Adam an Eve acordin to the plan he had in mind that they woud eat the apple... an knowin this... God put his creaton plan into action... so did God want Adam an Eve to eat the apple... or did he not care if they ate the apple or not.???
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well, he did create everything. and it seems like he created man to have a desire for knowledge. god is the source of all knowledge, and they were in communion with god before they fell. i just don't think they understood what a lie was. trust should be based on something don't you think? otherwise isn't it just blind faith?
Trust in God is blind faith.
I have always considered faith to be synonymous with gullibility. There are religious people who have come to their beliefs by means of a process of rational thought, but those people are very few in number. Most religious people are essentially gullible and superstitious. They have their beliefs because they choose to accept what they have been told - which is gullibility.
Much of the thread over the past few dozen posts is based on Genesis. This is a text that has absolutely no independent verification. From the view point of science, believing it to be true, in any way whatever, is exactly as valid as believing that Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and was punished by having his liver eaten every day by a giant eagle. In other words, if you believe the stories of Genesis, you are exhibiting the qualities of gullibility and superstition.
I have always considered faith to be synonymous with gullibility. There are religious people who have come to their beliefs by means of a process of rational thought, but those people are very few in number. Most religious people are essentially gullible and superstitious. They have their beliefs because they choose to accept what they have been told - which is gullibility.
Much of the thread over the past few dozen posts is based on Genesis. This is a text that has absolutely no independent verification. From the view point of science, believing it to be true, in any way whatever, is exactly as valid as believing that Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and was punished by having his liver eaten every day by a giant eagle. In other words, if you believe the stories of Genesis, you are exhibiting the qualities of gullibility and superstition.
God knew for certan that if he created Adam an Eve acordin to the plan he had in mind that they woud eat the apple... an knowin this... God put his creaton plan into action... so did God want Adam an Eve to eat the apple... or did he not care if they ate the apple or not.???
Yes it was God who intentionaly created Adam an Eve the way he did... so why is God not to blame for Adam an Eves poor character.???
Yes it was God who intentionaly created Adam an Eve the way he did... so why is God not to blame for Adam an Eves poor character.???
i don't think it's poor character, do you? it was just ignorance. so, problem solved.
trust in god is like trust in anything else...it's based on knowledge of that thing. i don't even think rational thought can give you knowledge of something, but only an idea of it.
just because people are religious doesn't mean they have that knowledge. maybe the idea, or maybe they're just doing what their family tells them too, or want to belong to a group, or have some other agenda. perhaps their running for office?
your post is ignoring that god interacts with, and proves his existence to people, on an individual basis through his spirit. this happened to me, and that is why i believe in god. how he has interacted with me, and what it has meant for me, as far as the results of interaction, because of what i know of him, is why i trust god.
So why did Adam an Eve deserve punishment for bein un-aware of somptin they coudnt have been aware of.???
Lori says Adam an Eve ate the apple dew to ther ignerence... i want to know why Adam an Eve deserved punishment because they was ignerent.???
Oh, you must have had a psychopathic boss at some point, who punished people for things they really couldn't have been expected to know were incorrect or needed or suited his or her taste. The sad thing is that someone would worship a God (or a boss or a dictator) who is like this.
(prepare for another lecture on how we are all sinners and it is sinful and base here on earth. how odd that an all powerful God made such a place)
To Lori, who said :
"your post is ignoring that god interacts with, and proves his existence to people, on an individual basis through his spirit. this happened to me, and that is why i believe in god. how he has interacted with me, and what it has meant for me, as far as the results of interaction, because of what i know of him, is why i trust god. "
Data obtained from such subjective sources is scientifically inadmissable. Feelings of deity can be induced by drugs, starvation, or even physical trauma to the head. So feeling such things is not an indication of God, or any other possible deity - just of non normal cerebral processes.
"your post is ignoring that god interacts with, and proves his existence to people, on an individual basis through his spirit. this happened to me, and that is why i believe in god. how he has interacted with me, and what it has meant for me, as far as the results of interaction, because of what i know of him, is why i trust god. "
Data obtained from such subjective sources is scientifically inadmissable. Feelings of deity can be induced by drugs, starvation, or even physical trauma to the head. So feeling such things is not an indication of God, or any other possible deity - just of non normal cerebral processes.
I guess Stockholm symdrome esplanes part of it... an how powerful it mus be to "actualy" hear an/or see God/Jesus... an ive herd that som people are mor geneticaly inclined to "beleive" such thangs as the Bible-God bein a lovin father.???
Yeah i heard it will all make sinse after we are dead... but it alredy looks perty clear to me that a God who intentionaly created "this" is a monster
data obtained from such sources is inadmissible to those who want to measure god..to make god a standard..to create laws because they believe humanity cannot moderate themselves..
when it is a personal thing, there is no measureing, each person assigns their own value to it, according to their own exp/knowledge..
of course the person who experiances god will value that more than those who have not.
so is trust in man.
to a point..i agree.(see 'Do as your told')
see 'think for yourself'
agree again..
that is a rather broad summation..
if your too busy trying to figure out what is wrong with god, you won't see whats right about him.
or
its not about the words..its about the understanding..
clueless associates god to no-choices,
somewhere in sciforums i have some posts that i argue about adam and eve, that the choice they made was the right choice, it is humanity that labels it bad..
i ask again clueless..what if adam and eve stayed in the garden, did not eat the apple, them and their descendants were well taken care of..(this assumes they had a sex life)..
where would we be? (see Wall-E)
would this be a good thing or not?
you know it's just consequence. sin is transgression and transgression has negative consequences. and now we're aware. aren't we?
Which, even if true, does not undermine the belief, since we are all genetically inclined and according to your beliefs boxed in completely (with the addition of environmental factors), so every belief would be undermined if that one was. The Stockholm Syndrome analogy works for me, however. I think it is very hard for most believers in the Abrahamic God to actually question their God. Judaism has the most history of individuals being cranky with God, but even there.
god proved his existence to me and that's all that really matters isn't it? i mean why would i care if it's scientifically inadmissible? it's supposed to be something that is discovered on a personal level. and i'm not referring to feelings, i'm referring to an interaction, and meaningful results of that interaction. there were no drugs, starvation, or physical trauma that caused this to happen. it happened just like the bible said, "seek and you shall find. knock and the door shall open".