"NEARLY a lifetime," checkmate.
Did Jesus exist?
- Thread starter nds1
- Start date
Great, so maybe Plato and/or Aristotle didn't really exist. Whats your point? It doesn't prove or disprove the physical existence of Jesus either way. And it definetly doesn't prove or disprove that Jesus was the Son of God. I think Plato and Aristotle were real people but I don't know for sure, nor do I care.
Maybe people just had an alterior motive in promoting a certain message, and used the names "Plato" and "Aristotle" as the fictious founders of that message. Hmmm, that sounds familiar....
Sure, just throw it all out.
All the more reason, nobody challenged the Gospels when they began to be circulated in the 1st century.
I'm not fussed one way or the other. Nobody challenged the gospels (except rival religious sects, of course) because it told them all the things they wanted to hear. It gave them a code to live by so that they may raise from the dead and go wind surfing with their savior in heaven.
Basically, religious folk will swallow anything their preacher(s) tell them. And some preachers say the damndest things lol.
Oh, and you say nobody challenged the gospels, but even the very religion itself left out many gospels from the bible, for very interesting reasons.
Basically, religious folk will swallow anything their preacher(s) tell them. And some preachers say the damndest things lol.
Oh, and you say nobody challenged the gospels, but even the very religion itself left out many gospels from the bible, for very interesting reasons.
I told you all about the Gnostics and the heresy hunters. You are once again mistaken.
The Gnostics tried to add on, they didn't directly challenge the Gospel accounts.
The Gnostic gospels,such as the gospel of Thomas were thrown out because they presented a threat to the early churchs' power over the people.
Essentially referring to the Hidden Divinity and similiar concepts of eastern religions and the ancient egyptians concept of the God within.
It was a threat because they felt it gave people too much self empowerment,
and it's easier to control the masses with a concept of God like the Old Testament ( An angry, vengeful, cursing ,jealous male God quick to deliver harsh and cruel judgement on non belivers or the disobediant)
Ironically enough ..when christians finish prayer they usually say "Amen", which refers to the hidden divinity.
http://www.crystalinks.com/amun.html
"Hidden Divinity," kinda like we are all spiritual brothers, just waiting for the "real us" to come out, kumba ya, hardly what Jesus spoke about.
Greetings,
The Talmud stories date from CENTURIES after Jesus.
They are entirely negative stories in reponse to Christian claims.
But, there is no HISTORY of Jesus there-in.
The Talmud says Jesus :
* was the bastard son of Roman soldier
* who learned magic in Egypt
* and was stoned to death in Lydda.
Nothing like the alleged "real" Jesus.
Iasion
The Talmud stories date from CENTURIES after Jesus.
They are entirely negative stories in reponse to Christian claims.
But, there is no HISTORY of Jesus there-in.
The Talmud says Jesus :
* was the bastard son of Roman soldier
* who learned magic in Egypt
* and was stoned to death in Lydda.
Nothing like the alleged "real" Jesus.
Iasion
Must..... not.... post..... anything.......
IceAgeCivilizations..... insanity.... is... drawing.... me... back..... in....
Must..... fight.... it..... .... must.... fight.....
Aaaaw fuck it! I can't!
Works authored by Plato:
The Early Dialogues:
* Apology
* Crito
* Charmides
* Laches
* Lysis
* Euthyphro
* Menexenus
* Lesser Hippias
* Ion
* Gorgias
* Protagoras
* Meno
The Middle Dialogues:
* Euthydemus
* Cratylus
* Phaedo
* Phaedrus
* Symposium
* Republic
* Theaetetus
* Parmenides
The Late Dialogues
* Sophist
* Statesman
* Philebus
* Timaeus
* Critias
* Laws
Works authored by Jesus Christ:
?
Next stupid statement Ice!
Link
IceAgeCivilizations..... insanity.... is... drawing.... me... back..... in....
Must..... fight.... it..... .... must.... fight.....
Aaaaw fuck it! I can't!
IceAgeCivilizations said:
Works authored by Plato:
The Early Dialogues:
* Apology
* Crito
* Charmides
* Laches
* Lysis
* Euthyphro
* Menexenus
* Lesser Hippias
* Ion
* Gorgias
* Protagoras
* Meno
The Middle Dialogues:
* Euthydemus
* Cratylus
* Phaedo
* Phaedrus
* Symposium
* Republic
* Theaetetus
* Parmenides
The Late Dialogues
* Sophist
* Statesman
* Philebus
* Timaeus
* Critias
* Laws
Works authored by Jesus Christ:
?
Next stupid statement Ice!
Link
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Greetings,
People built beliefs around Osiris and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Osiris existed.
People built beliefs around Hercules and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Hercules existed.
People built beliefs around Krishna and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Krishna existed.
People built beliefs around Luke Skywalker and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Luke existed.
Iasion
People built beliefs around Osiris and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Osiris existed.
People built beliefs around Hercules and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Hercules existed.
People built beliefs around Krishna and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Krishna existed.
People built beliefs around Luke Skywalker and wrote much about him.
Therefore, according to YOUR argument, Luke existed.
Iasion
Wow.
You really don't know this?
Incredible.
Really?
How about the "quotes" of Jesus' last words on the cross?
Hmmm?
They are DIFFERENT in different Gospels.
So much for "quotes".
That YOU know of?
SO what?
You have already shown you know nothing about this subject.
Iasion
Wrong again,
The Gospels did not circulate until mid SECOND century.
No Christian writer shows knowledge of the Gospels until 2nd century.
When they DO arise, they WERE criticised - e.g. Celsus attacked the Gospels as FICTION based on MYTH.
IceAge has been told this, and ignored it, and now repeats his false claim again.
All he does is preach his faith, lie about the facts, and insult people.
Iasion
Thanks for your input I.
Greetings,
Actually, many people challenged the Gospels and their contents :
2 John warns of those who don't
"acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh".
Celsus, in late 2nd century, attacked the Gospels as fiction based on myths :
"Clearly the christians have used...myths... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth...It is clear to me that the writings of the christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction"
Bardesanes, in mid 2nd century, denied that Christ was physical :
"...assert that the body of the Saviour was spiritual;
Minucius Felix, in mid 2nd century, explicitly denies the incarnation and crucifixion along with other horrible accusations.
"...he who explains their ceremonies by reference to a man punished by extreme suffering for his wickedness, and to the deadly wood of the cross, appropriates fitting altars for reprobate and wicked men ... when you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross you wander far from the truth", and also: "Men who have died cannot become gods, because a god cannot die; nor can men who are born (become gods) ... Why, I pray, are gods not born today, if such have ever been born?" -
Tatian, in later 2nd century, compared Christianity with pagan mythology and wrote:
“Compare you own stories with our narratives. Take a look at your own records and accept us merely on the grounds that we too tell stories”
Dionysius of Corinth, in late 2nd century,
claims Christians were changing and faking his own letters just as they had changed the "scriptures of the Lord ".
Caius, claimed the truth about Jesus was falsified from the late 2nd century :
"For they say that ... from ... Zephyrinus the truth was falsified ..."
Porphyry, in late 3rd century, claimed the Gospels were invented :
"... the evangelists were inventors – not historians”
Julian, in the 4th century, claimed Jesus was spurious and counterfeit :
"why do you worship this spurious son...a counterfeit son", "you have invented your new kind of sacrifice "
He was "convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness..
That's an educated Roman Emperor who had read the history etc.
Who was "convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness.."
But somehow, apologists still claim no one attacked the Gospels.
The facts are the exact opposite - many critics attacked the Gospels, often calling them FICTION !
FICTION.
Ancient writers called the Gospels FICTION.
How more clear can it be.
Iasion
Actually, many people challenged the Gospels and their contents :
2 John warns of those who don't
"acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh".
Celsus, in late 2nd century, attacked the Gospels as fiction based on myths :
"Clearly the christians have used...myths... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth...It is clear to me that the writings of the christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction"
Bardesanes, in mid 2nd century, denied that Christ was physical :
"...assert that the body of the Saviour was spiritual;
Minucius Felix, in mid 2nd century, explicitly denies the incarnation and crucifixion along with other horrible accusations.
"...he who explains their ceremonies by reference to a man punished by extreme suffering for his wickedness, and to the deadly wood of the cross, appropriates fitting altars for reprobate and wicked men ... when you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross you wander far from the truth", and also: "Men who have died cannot become gods, because a god cannot die; nor can men who are born (become gods) ... Why, I pray, are gods not born today, if such have ever been born?" -
Tatian, in later 2nd century, compared Christianity with pagan mythology and wrote:
“Compare you own stories with our narratives. Take a look at your own records and accept us merely on the grounds that we too tell stories”
Dionysius of Corinth, in late 2nd century,
claims Christians were changing and faking his own letters just as they had changed the "scriptures of the Lord ".
Caius, claimed the truth about Jesus was falsified from the late 2nd century :
"For they say that ... from ... Zephyrinus the truth was falsified ..."
Porphyry, in late 3rd century, claimed the Gospels were invented :
"... the evangelists were inventors – not historians”
Julian, in the 4th century, claimed Jesus was spurious and counterfeit :
"why do you worship this spurious son...a counterfeit son", "you have invented your new kind of sacrifice "
He was "convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness..
That's an educated Roman Emperor who had read the history etc.
Who was "convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans is a fiction of men composed by wickedness.."
But somehow, apologists still claim no one attacked the Gospels.
The facts are the exact opposite - many critics attacked the Gospels, often calling them FICTION !
FICTION.
Ancient writers called the Gospels FICTION.
How more clear can it be.
Iasion
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*************
M*W: People were illiterate then. People were gullible then. There were no printed gospels that the people had for their use. They were ignorant followers of socio-political controllers. Of course, no one questioned the veracity of the gospels in those early years lest they
met their death.
Greetings,
Many people DID questions the Gospels.
I posted examples, which can be checked easily.
All have been ignored.
:-(
Iasion
Many people DID questions the Gospels.
I posted examples, which can be checked easily.
All have been ignored.
:-(
Iasion