Did Jesus exist?

Also, simply because Christianity is the religion of the vast majority does not mean it is correct... Jesus may have been simply a mythical character as Hercules or Mithra. Wouldn't believers of Mithraism say (if it was the majority today) that Mithra existed?


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M*W: Ayodhya, you need to rethink christianity as being the "vast majority," because it is not! Only 33% of the world's population (I give it a solid 25%, at best) is christian. The other 66% to 75% is non-christian, and christianity is declining worldwide, so say the leaders of christian churches.
 
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Quite an interesting thread.

I dunno if It's been pointed out but Jesus shares a whole host of biographical infomation and life expierence with dozens of other ealier Deity's of other religions and cultures. Here's just a small selection. Some of it is spookily farmiliar.


Buddha circa 500 BCE

The Buddha shares the following with Christ:

* Buddha was born of the virgin Maya, who was considered the "Queen of Heaven."
* He was of royal descent.
* He crushed a serpent's head.
* He had 12 disciples.
* He performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a "small basket of cakes," and walked on water.
* He abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word," and preached "the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness."
* He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all.
* He was transfigured on a mount.
* Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected.
* He ascended to Nirvana or "heaven."
* Buddha was considered the "Good Shepherd"the "Carpenter", the "Infinite and Everlasting."
* He was called the "Savior of the World" and the "Light of the World."
* The impact of his teachings was felt throughout northeastern India, where they were spread verbally through his interaction with the people.
* From numerous scriptures available today, it can be surmised that he often expounded his teachings in response to the people's questions.



Horus of Egypt

The stories of Jesus and Horus are very similar and the legends of Horus go back thousands of years and he shares the following in common with Jesus:

* Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
* He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.
* Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."
* He had 12 disciples.
* He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.
* He walked on water.
* Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
* He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.
* He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.
* He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish ("Ichthys").
* Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."
* Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story.
* In fact, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis - the original "Madonna and Child"



Mithra, Sungod of Persia

The Vatican itself is built upon the papacy of Mithra, who shares many qualities with Jesus. He was regarded as a deity long before the upstart Jesus arrived on the scene. The Christian hierarchy is a vitual copy of the Mithraic version it replaced. Virtually all of the elements of the Catholic ritual, from miter to wafer to water to altar to doxology, are directly lifted from earlier pagan mystery religions.

The story of Mithra precedes the Christian fable by at least 600 years and has the following in common with the Christ character:

* Mithra was born on December 25th.
* He was considered a great teacher and master.
* He had 12 companions or disciples.
* He is said to have performed miracles.
* He was buried in a tomb.
* After three days he rose again.
* His resurrection was celebrated every year.
* Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
* He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
* He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
* His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
* Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
* His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."


Krishna of India

There are many striking similarities between the Christian Jesus and the Indian Krishna an a common earlier English spelling of Krishna was "Christna," which reveals its relation to '"Christ."

Also, like the Jewish version, many people have believed in a historical Krishna.

* Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki ("Divine One")
* His father was a carpenter.
* His birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
* He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
* He was of royal descent.
* He was baptized in the River Ganges.
* He worked miracles and wonders.
* He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and the blind.
* Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love.
* He lived poor and he loved the poor."
* He was transfigured in front of his disciples. In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
* He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
* Krishna is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of lords," and was considered "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator, Universal Word."
* He is the second person of the Trinity, and proclaimed himself the "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father.
* He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End," "Alpha and Omega", as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.
* His disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus," meaning "pure essence."
* Krishna is to return to do battle with the "Prince of Evil," who will desolate the earth.
 
I find it hard to believe that a series of people would "make up" the story of Jesus. Similarily, I find it hard to believe that Muhammad would "make up" his visions of Gabriel. Both authors and groups of authors seem like at least they thought that what they were writing was true.


I dont think they "made it up". The Gospel writers just borrowed all their characters and expierences from other religions and Cultures. They tied everything in so that their Godman could fufill all the Prophecies.

They were in fierce competition with other Religions. They had to have something that would make the masses want to join them.
 
Read Foxe's "Book of Martyrs."

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M*W: Trust me. I've read all about the lives and deaths of the apostles, martyrs and saints. They were shoved down our throats by the Catholic Church. I even used to pray to them, but for what? They never existed either. It's all mythology.
 
Read Foxe's "Book of Martyrs."

it does nothing to help your case, it prove's nothing.
you've yet to establish they existed, and were apostle's.
you dont seem to be able answer questions, and you dont seem to read whats posted in front of you.
I dare say this is a waste of my time too.
 
Hey Med Woman, do you think that the Romans used Christians in their death games at the Coliseum?

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M*W: No. That's just more mythological symbolism. None of it can be documented as actual history. I've been to the Coliseum, and believe me, I was really disappointed when I found out that the lions really didn't eat the christians like I'd been told.
 
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M*W: No. That's just more mythological symbolism. None of it can be documented as actual history. I've been to the Coliseum, and believe me, I was really disappointed when I found out that the lions really didn't eat the christians like I'd been told.

Could you please cite evidence for this?

Christians who died in the Coliseum could have simply been average Christians much like the ones we know today. How does the evidence against the existence of Christ prove that Christians didn't die in the Coliseum?
 
If Jesus was truly born in a poor area and performed miracles and taught in or around the confines of that area it does seem unlikely that there would be many outside sources on Jesus.

I'm very interested to know how many of the people living around Jesus could read or write. If he lived and worked in a poor area it's unlikely that anyone had to ability to record his actions. Paper and pens weren't as available then as they are now. Not to mention, public schooling didn't even exist yet (as far as I know).

Aside from that, even if people could have written about Jesus, the risk of being caught and tortured by the Romans would have been enough to stop anyone from writing about Jesus or his teachings.

In any case, even if sources other than the authors of the Bible did write about Jesus' miracles, they were far too poor to get their writing published and reproduced. So their writings became destroyed with no way to preserve them.

I wonder what the entire geographical area of Jesus' teachings were so we could analyze the people he would have been around. A map would be good.
 
The man's a Globetrotter according to the Gospels. People queue up to see him. He's supposadly well known to the Roman Authorities, who are meticolous record keepers. They didnt write a sentance about him.
He's feeding 5000 people, and raising people from the dead. Weve got Dead Saints rising from the Dead after his JC's death.
Surely this would have been news for Scribes and Writers. Surely if this was happening Word of Mouth would have carried across the whole Country, and there would have someone there to record it.
 
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