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Did Jesus exist?
- Thread starter nds1
- Start date
Please do not call me Ayo.
Iaison is not divine because Jesus is the only divine human who has ever lived.
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M*W: Prove to us Jesus existed. Believing doesn't make it so.
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M*W: Prove to us Jesus existed. Believing doesn't make it so.
Prove to us He didn't.
Prove to us He didn't.
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M*W: Jesus was up there with all the other hero myths of the bible, all of them anthropomorphizations of the sun, stars, planets and constellations, like Adam and Eve, David, Moses and Abraham. You cannot prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the believer and not on the disbeliever.
Your barking up the wrong tree here.Prove to us Krishna didn't exist.
Iasion
You think I'm some kind of a "fundamental".
Even though I speak out regularly against all organized religions, including so-called Christianty.
I'm the one here that told you they missed their second coming 40 years ago.
Remember.
I also quote from the Vedas all the time.
You prove Krishna didn't exist.
You cannot prove a negative.
Sure you can, who told you that?
If He didn't exist...He didn't exist.
You should be able to prove that.
I'll even help you out....
You see, so-called christians today don't know any more about Christ than you do, and at least you don't claim to know Him.
They were so busy cutting out paper dolls of a Jesus that lived two thousand years ago, He was right here under their noses, and they missed Him, again.
And crucifed Him the second time.
How is that possible?
Do you think He left a trail of bread crumbs, for people to follow.
No.
He covered His tracks and did things in such a way, the ones without a love of the truth....will find nothing of value there.
They will be convinced there was nothing to it.
And He wants it that way.
So I agree with you M*W*...you should have no problem proving He didn't exist.
I would even be inclined to help you prove it.
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GReetings,
Um,
so what IS your point then?
Do you think ALL mythical characters existed?
Do you think Osiris was real?
Attis?
Dionysus?
Iasion
Your barking up the wrong tree here. You think I'm some kind of a "fundamental". Even though I speak out regularly against all organized religions, including so-called Christianty. I'm the one here that told you they missed their second coming 40 years ago.
Remember. I also quote from the Vedas all the time.
You prove Krishna didn't exist.
Um,
so what IS your point then?
Do you think ALL mythical characters existed?
Do you think Osiris was real?
Attis?
Dionysus?
Iasion
It was in 325 A.D. that Christianity was forced to compromise on the truth and merge with the pagan traditions of Rome at the Nicene Council.Why did Constantine 1 make Christianity legal in 313. What could his motives have been?
Let the people who lived 1700 years ago worry about why Constantine did anything.
Why are you so concerned with writings about a God of nearly two millennia ago that did this, that or the other things......
Could that be all you really have....history, legends, fables......
"Having itching ears, they shall heap up for themselves teachers who turn the truth into fables...."
God's prophecies include so many promises for this day.
I'd be concerned about understanding what God is doing now, in your day not somebody else's.
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I'd be concerned about understanding what God is doing now, in your day not somebody else's
Which god? And to make your claim you first have to show something substantial to show that this god of yours exists. That's the way the world works, get used to it.
I know, I know.. you can't. All that does is make everything you say nothing but gas.
Quite a chip on your shoulder there son......Which god? And to make your claim you first have to show something substantial to show that this god of yours exists. That's the way the world works, get used to it.
I know, I know.. you can't. All that does is make everything you say nothing but gas.
Sounds like you're the one with something to prove.
Maybe you'd better talk to M*W* instead of myself.
She at least says it's impossible to prove a negative.
You see I don't have anything to prove....
Did Jesus ever try to prove who He was?
Does a black belt go around proving to everyone He knows Karate?
Didn't think so.
Think about what you're asking before you embarrass youself.
I know you better than that old friend.
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TheVisitor:
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M*W: I was a christian once, Roman Catholic, and I taught catechism for many years. During that time, I read everything I could find on christianity. So, at one time I did have a personal relationship with your Jesus. The more I learned, the more vague his character became. There is no proof of his existence, although 20 years ago, I would have argued for his existence. Now I see the error of my thinking as a christian. It's not true that atheists don't "know" Jesus. We don't know him as the same fictional character in which you "know" him. In fact, atheists are probably more knowledgeable than christians could ever become. Atheists don't believe blindly. We know what religionists believe in, that's why we're atheists.
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M*W: I believe my writings on this forum have led to that conclusion. At any rate, I continue to search for further cracks in the 'story,' and I will share them as they become available. It's up to you to believe or disbelieve what I write. There is nothing that any christian could say to me that would convince me I am wrong about Jesus' non-existence.
You see, so-called christians today don't know any more about Christ than you do, and at least you don't claim to know Him.
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M*W: I was a christian once, Roman Catholic, and I taught catechism for many years. During that time, I read everything I could find on christianity. So, at one time I did have a personal relationship with your Jesus. The more I learned, the more vague his character became. There is no proof of his existence, although 20 years ago, I would have argued for his existence. Now I see the error of my thinking as a christian. It's not true that atheists don't "know" Jesus. We don't know him as the same fictional character in which you "know" him. In fact, atheists are probably more knowledgeable than christians could ever become. Atheists don't believe blindly. We know what religionists believe in, that's why we're atheists.
So I agree with you M*W*...you should have no problem proving He didn't exist. I would even be inclined to help you prove it.
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M*W: I believe my writings on this forum have led to that conclusion. At any rate, I continue to search for further cracks in the 'story,' and I will share them as they become available. It's up to you to believe or disbelieve what I write. There is nothing that any christian could say to me that would convince me I am wrong about Jesus' non-existence.
I knew you were once a Catholic.
That is why I have a certain empathy concerning your situation M*W*
But they couldn't take you there.
Neither could the Protestants.
If you had ever been in that Presence, you would not have any doubts about His existence.
And you would do anything....anything, to get back where you know you once belonged.
I don't have to trust in history or other's second hand knowledge of Him.
I don't doubt Atheists are more knowledgeable of the fictional character of Jesus than Christians
But the "fictional" version of Jesus Christians pray to in their guilded cage of Babylon......isn't the One I know.
That is why I have a certain empathy concerning your situation M*W*
But they couldn't take you there.
Neither could the Protestants.
If you had ever been in that Presence, you would not have any doubts about His existence.
And you would do anything....anything, to get back where you know you once belonged.
I don't have to trust in history or other's second hand knowledge of Him.
I don't doubt Atheists are more knowledgeable of the fictional character of Jesus than Christians
But the "fictional" version of Jesus Christians pray to in their guilded cage of Babylon......isn't the One I know.
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Why did Constantine 1 make Christianity legal in 313. What could his motives have been?
nds1, your question is brilliant.
There are two possible answers to this:
1) According to legend, Constantine had a dream in which God spoke to him and asked to him to adorn his soldiers' shields with the Roman symbol for christ "Chi ro" (X with a P extending from the middle upwards). Perhaps it was because of his superstitious attitude that he did so.
2) Probably more plausible is the ascent of Christianity of that time anyway. Around this time, more and more people began to adopt Christianity and it made its way into the military (which was what held the majority of members of Mithraism?). It was a way to "start over", abolish the myriad of beliefs and ritual, and solidify the empire under one God, one way of worship, etc. to unite the people under new leadership. Consider it a consolidation effort. Constantine himself may have continued to practice his pagan beliefs simply they had become a part of him through his younger years.
At this time, Roman was coming to a decline anyway (please correct me if I'm wrong) and during the time of Constantine, he even rebuilt Byzantine and named it New Rome.
Thank you Ayodhya, and thank you for the reply.
Okay, so it seems that Constantine 1 may have made Christianity legal due to political reasons. He knew it would benefit the empire to be more united under one religion since Christianity was growing and becoming out of control. They must have been executing them by the thousands by the 4th century so it does make logical sense that Constantine would want to end the internal disruption. How could the empire grow when it is occupied with executing thousands of Christians, who are thousands of its own people.
The "vision" thing is interesting. It seems like all religions start with a vision. The question always is, are these visions really from God, or are they simply mistaken to be. As we all know, dreams can seem VERY real sometimes. Nightmares can sometimes be so terrifying and real that they make us feel a presence of what we think is true evil.
So it's tough to verify whether someone else's vision is true or not.
Also, I've heard of someone who had a vision during the crusades on the Christian side in which God said that the Christians would win if they engaged in a certain battle. The Christians were motivated by this and went into battle, only to get annhiliated by the Muslims.
So visions aren't always real. I would like to look more into the story behind Constantine's vision. I wonder where this legend came from (historical document, oral legend, etc.).
Okay, so it seems that Constantine 1 may have made Christianity legal due to political reasons. He knew it would benefit the empire to be more united under one religion since Christianity was growing and becoming out of control. They must have been executing them by the thousands by the 4th century so it does make logical sense that Constantine would want to end the internal disruption. How could the empire grow when it is occupied with executing thousands of Christians, who are thousands of its own people.
The "vision" thing is interesting. It seems like all religions start with a vision. The question always is, are these visions really from God, or are they simply mistaken to be. As we all know, dreams can seem VERY real sometimes. Nightmares can sometimes be so terrifying and real that they make us feel a presence of what we think is true evil.
So it's tough to verify whether someone else's vision is true or not.
Also, I've heard of someone who had a vision during the crusades on the Christian side in which God said that the Christians would win if they engaged in a certain battle. The Christians were motivated by this and went into battle, only to get annhiliated by the Muslims.
So visions aren't always real. I would like to look more into the story behind Constantine's vision. I wonder where this legend came from (historical document, oral legend, etc.).
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Quite a chip on your shoulder there son......
1) I fail to see how telling someone they need to provide evidence when making claims is having a chip on their shoulder. Wake up to the real world.
2) Do not call me son again. I ain't your son, I aint your neighbour and I ain't your friend. I consider you one of the most deluded, [deleted]. I consider you a disagrace to humanity. [deleted]?
She at least says it's impossible to prove a negative.
3 is not 1. That's proving a negative. Further than that I fail to see it's relevance here.
If you make a claim (*there's a giant leprechaun in my garage*), you must expect to be able to show evidence to support that claim or to not be taken seriously. It's quite simple really.
You see I don't have anything to prove....
Of course not, and that's why not one person here takes you seriously. You're like the joke of the internet.. nuclear bombs tilted the planet, the snake bonked eve... Listen to how you sound.
Does a black belt go around proving to everyone He knows Karate?
Uhh.. pay attention: If someone just came up and said he was a black belt, (I don't know how old you are but I always remember back in the schoolyard the kids giving it the old macho statements), he would undoubtedly be asked to prove it/show evidence that he indeed was a black belt and not just talking out of his rectum.
Now, until you can show evidence to support your claims, you too are guilty of simply talking out of your rectum much like that 15 years old supposed black belt.
Wake up.
Think about what you're asking before you embarrass youself.
You're embarrasing enough for the both of us.
I know you better than that old friend.
We ain't friends and I don't think there's anything that you "know".
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I would like to look more into the story behind Constantine's vision. I wonder where this legend came from (historical document, oral legend, etc.).
As a logical outcome of his victory (as with most Christian prophecy), the vision legend was probably added later, as Wikipedia states, to solidify that God wanted Constantine to win, so as to say, that Christianity is the true religion.
I find it hard to believe that a series of people would "make up" the story of Jesus. Similarily, I find it hard to believe that Muhammad would "make up" his visions of Gabriel. Both authors and groups of authors seem like at least they thought that what they were writing was true.
I find it hard to believe that a series of people would "make up" the story of Jesus. Similarily, I find it hard to believe that Muhammad would "make up" his visions of Gabriel. Both authors and groups of authors seem like at least they thought that what they were writing was true.
The Bible never states the actual date of Jesus' birth does it?
Priests during that time could have simply said that Jesus existed in the past even in that ancient time. So there is reasoning to how a Jesus myth may have been sustained. Also, simply because Christianity is the religion of the vast majority does not mean it is correct... Jesus may have been simply a mythical character as Hercules or Mithra. Wouldn't believers of Mithraism say (if it was the majority today) that Mithra existed?
Visions are considered pathways into the divine because they are so mysterious and even today, altered states of consciousness aren't explained completely. It is possible that during his meditation, Mohammed had visions of a divine creature, but current research on long time meditators has not thrown up visions, but instead, simply, a state of being that can be described by the meditators themselves (and has little to do with anything material).
It is also entirely probable that Mohammed wanted control and used his so-called visions as a way of manipulating the people. Both are possible solutions.
About the writings: Do you believe the Earth is flat? Probably not, but some people in this world do. Advocates of this theory can publish material and have conviction, but it does not mean it is correct.