Did Haiti form a pact with the Devil?

[baftan]

Intervening in times of crisis such as now in order to save lives is not evil as you seem to think. Haiti is an unstable country, has been an unstable country which from time to time needs extrodinary intervention. Now is one of those times. The US has taken defacto control of the nation yet again in order to save lives.

This was my point: Regular intervention. If you want to justify it with "Haiti is an unstable country" fairy tale, it's your choice. But don't try to put words in my mouth, I never said "US has evil intentions in Haiti", did I? You are confusing Axis of Evil business with Haiti. I said the US could have used its expertise in exorcism industry in order to eradicate so-called "pact with the devil" problem in Haiti. You have confused everything...

 

[spidergoat]

Pat Robertson is no more crazy than anyone else that believes in the devil. If you accept that premise as true, then his position is not irrational or hateful.

 

[joepistole]

I just heard the airport has been closed because it is at capacity.

 

[Baron Max]

I just heard the airport has been closed because it is at capacity.

Yep. And I also just read that the stockpiles of supplies is growing to enormous proportions because they have no way of getting those supplies to the places and people that need them. Roads and streets are full of rubble, as well as people who are too scared to go into any buildings.

If the poverty-stricken Haitians hadn't produced so many kids, this disaster would be much easier to deal with. Now? .... Well, perhaps they'll learn a lesson from this and not produce so many kids in the future?

Baron Max

 

[joepistole]

Yep. And I also just read that the stockpiles of supplies is growing to enormous proportions because they have no way of getting those supplies to the places and people that need them. Roads and streets are full of rubble, as well as people who are too scared to go into any buildings.

If the poverty-stricken Haitians hadn't produced so many kids, this disaster would be much easier to deal with. Now? .... Well, perhaps they'll learn a lesson from this and not produce so many kids in the future?

Baron Max

The inability to get supplies to people in need has nothing to do with the size of the population, but has everything to do with the rubble in the streets which a the result of the earthquake and poorly designed and constructed buildings/infrastructure.

 

[Baron Max]

The inability to get supplies to people in need has nothing to do with the size of the population, but has everything to do with the rubble in the streets which a the result of the earthquake and poorly designed and constructed buildings/infrastructure.

So you're saying that even if there was only 1,000 people, the task would still be as difficult???? ...LOL!

Think the starving, destitute, poverty-stricken Haitians will learn to have fewer babies in the future?

Baron Max

 

[John99]

The population in Haiti is concentrated in Port. Au Prince and the surrounding areas are underpopulated.

 

[Baron Max]

The population in Haiti is concentrated in Port. Au Prince and the surrounding areas are underpopulated.

Exactly! So now tell me, ....how many people were killed in those underpopulated areas of Haiti?

Maybe the answer will show us all conclusively that overpopulating any area, like cities, is not a good thing? And that we should all be living on small farms producing our own food and living happily everafter in relative isolation (except on Saturday nights when we all go to the barn dance in town?).

Baron Max

 

[joepistole]

So you're saying that even if there was only 1,000 people, the task would still be as difficult???? ...LOL!

Think the starving, destitute, poverty-stricken Haitians will learn to have fewer babies in the future?

Baron Max

These people are devote Catholics. Catholics do not belive in birth control. The current distribution crisis has nothing to do with numbers. It is really silly for you to be focused on reporductive habits/trends of the Haitian. That is not the issue now. The issue is saving lives and minimizing the suffering.

 

[John99]

Exactly! So now tell me, ....how many people were killed in those underpopulated areas of Haiti?

Maybe the answer will show us all conclusively that overpopulating any area, like cities, is not a good thing? And that we should all be living on small farms producing our own food and living happily everafter in relative isolation (except on Saturday nights when we all go to the barn dance in town?).

Baron Max

I thing that is true (people MOSTLY\MAINLY living in the cities) with all countries.

 

[Baron Max]

... That is not the issue now. The issue is saving lives and minimizing the suffering.

You have a very limited view of things, Joe. Haiti has been suffering for decades and decades, and few, if anyone, cared or said a freakin' word about it. And during those decades, the Haitians continued to have babies that they couldn't feed, which made the problem even worse. And now....?

See, Joe? Now, with the headlines blaring at you, you think now is the time to save lives and minimize the suffering? Joe, those people have been suffering for umpty-eleven years and no one did a freakin' thing!!!

Stop wearing blinders, Joe! The Haitians that we save and feed now will be right back to poverty and starvation in only a couple of years!! So ....why are we....??

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

If Americans didn't have so many children, there wouldn't have been anyone in the Twin Towers to die during 9/11. So that's our fault too.

 

[John99]

Stop wearing blinders, Joe! The Haitians that we save and feed now will be right back to poverty and starvation in only a couple of years!! So ....why are we....??

Baron Max

Few of them are actually starving. It is the poorest country in the western hemisphere though.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

According to televangelist Pat Robertson, Yes.
They are a cursed nation.
And that's why they have had an earthquake.

Found in Gene Roddenberry's attic:

'Keptin, the Dei warship is preparing to fire on us'
'Mr. Chekhov raise shields.'
'Keptin, shields are not responding'
'Mr Spock?
'It appears Captain that our shields are down because of a pact you made with the Devil Company in our last episode'
'The pact?' 'What pact?'
'The cancellation of the Dei insurance policy and replacing it with their competitor's'
'This is extortion'
'Not in the Dei's eyes, out here in space you only get one chance.'
'Consequences Spock?'
'The Dei specialize in teaching lessons and that is what we are going to get.'
'Teaching lessons? By killing us all?'
'Not precisely Captain, only the amount that they determine will suffice'
'Not too reassuring Spock, what will become of us?'
'Unknown Captain, the Dei pick and choose at random.'
'Spock, can I undo the pact?'
'Unfortunately, not until the teacher is finished the lesson.'
'Analysis?'
'It's for our own good Captain'

 

[Baron Max]

If Americans didn't have so many children, there wouldn't have been anyone in the Twin Towers to die during 9/11. So that's our fault too.

Who's talkin' about "fault"? I'm quite sure that the poverty of the Haitians caused the earthquake. But, hey, not being a scientist or such, I could be wrong?!

I'm not talking about fault, Spider.

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

Maybe we should get rid of the Pentagon too, that way it won't ever get bombed.

 

[joepistole]

You have a very limited view of things, Joe. Haiti has been suffering for decades and decades, and few, if anyone, cared or said a freakin' word about it. And during those decades, the Haitians continued to have babies that they couldn't feed, which made the problem even worse. And now....?

See, Joe? Now, with the headlines blaring at you, you think now is the time to save lives and minimize the suffering? Joe, those people have been suffering for umpty-eleven years and no one did a freakin' thing!!!

Stop wearing blinders, Joe! The Haitians that we save and feed now will be right back to poverty and starvation in only a couple of years!! So ....why are we....??

Baron Max

The discussion is not about what has happened but what will happen and needs to happen.

 

[Baron Max]

The discussion is not about what has happened but what will happen and needs to happen.

Well, if you believed in evolution, then what should happen is for evolution to take whatever toll is appropriate. And, in fact, if you believe in evolution, then you should also believe that to "help" is doing nothing but interfering with the natural evolutionary processes.

Do you believe in evolution, Joe?

Baron Max

 

[madanthonywayne]

The discussion is not about what has happened but what will happen and needs to happen.

I thought this thread was about the pact with the devil? It appears that Pat Robertson didn't just make this shit up. This myth has been going on for a while. Here's one version of the story:

As with all nationalism, some knowledge of history is crucial for understanding the present situation. "Hayti" (or mountainous land, as it was known by the original inhabitants, the Arawak Indians), was discovered by Christopher Columbus and named "Hispaniola"(Little Spain) in 1492. The Spanish colonised the island and under their rule the Arawak Indians were virtually annihilated. In 1697 the western portion of the island was ceded to France and named Haiti. (The eastern portion under Spanish rule became Saint-Domingue, now Dominican Republic.)

Haiti flourished under French rule and became invaluable as a resource for cocoa, cotton, sugar cane and coffee. By 1780, Haiti was one of the wealthiest regions in the world. The plantation system was however built upon the backs of vast numbers of slaves imported from West Africa.

Several consequences of this era provide the foundations for the present situation. * Firstly - the West African slaves brought with them the religious practices of voodoo. * Secondly - the French colonial masters treated the slaves with such undue harshness they created hatred amid an already resentful environment. * Thirdly - a class of "mulattos" (light skinned, sophisticated, Catholic, French-speaking Haitians) arose from the relations of the slave owners and the slaves. They were at odds with the dark-skinned, voodoo practising, Creole-speaking masses.

On 14 August 1791, a black slave and witch doctor named Boukman led the slaves in a voodoo ritual. They sacrificed a pig and drank its blood to form a pact with the devil, whereby they agreed to serve the spirits of the island for 200 years in exchange for freedom from the French. The slave rebellion commenced on 22 August 1791, and after 13 years of conflict, the slaves won their independence. On 1 January 1804 they declared Haiti the world's first independent black republic. An iron statue of a pig stands in Port-au-Prince to commemorate the "Boukman Contract". (Link 1)

Since independence, Haiti has been in a continual state of political struggle and wracked with poverty.

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/11197.htm​

Here is a site in which a Haitan minister tells and debunks the story:

Two hundred years after its independence and at less than 700 miles from the coast of Florida, Haiti has become the most unstable and the poorest country of the western hemisphere. Although Haiti’s free fall can easily be understood from a strictly historical perspective, religious arguments have been used by many to follow and explain the demise of this tiny nation.

Have you ever heard how some preachers or theologians try to explain the unspeakable misery that is crippling most of Haiti’s population of 8 million? Everywhere you go, from your television screen to the Internet, what you are most likely to find is a reference to a spiritual pact that the fathers of the nation supposedly made with the devil to help them win their freedom from France. As a result of that satanic alliance, as they put it, God has placed a curse on the country some time around its birth3, and that divine burden has made it virtually impossible for the vast majority of Haitians to live in peace and prosperity in their land. Surprising, right?

The satanic pact allegedly took place at Bois-Caïman near Cap-Haïtien on August 14, 1791 during a meeting organized by several slave leaders, under [Dutty] Boukman’s leadership, before launching what would become Haiti’s Independence War. This brutal period lasted 13 years until the last survivors of the French expeditionary forces, dispatched to Saint-Domingue with the sole purpose to re-establish slavery, were allowed by Dessalines to leave the island and return to Napoleon. Those who made it safely to France wrote and reported about the utmost bravery and supreme courage of Haiti’s indigenous army.

Obviously, the idea that Haiti was dedicated to Satan prior to its independence is a very serious and profound statement with potentially grave consequences for its people in terms of how they are perceived by others or how the whole nation is understood outside its borders. One would agree that such a strong affirmation should be based on solid historical and scriptural ground. But, although the satanic pact idea is by far the most popular explanation for Haiti’s birth as a free nation, especially among Christian missionaries and some Haitian Church leaders, it is nothing more than a fantasist opinion that ultimately dissipates upon close examination.

http://www.blackandchristian.com/articles/academy/gelin-10-05.shtml
​

And this site also recounts the story and includes a bit about how the Christians won Haiti back from Satan back in the 90's: http://redtory.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/haiti’s-“devil-pact”-explained/

 

[spidergoat]

Well, if you believed in evolution, then what should happen is for evolution to take whatever toll is appropriate. And, in fact, if you believe in evolution, then you should also believe that to "help" is doing nothing but interfering with the natural evolutionary processes.

Do you believe in evolution, Joe?

Baron Max

That's silly. If we help, that means that evolution led to a species that helps it's own kind.