Developing Telepathy

[Quantum Quack]

I guess it is possible that because of my empathy for these persons I am willing to explore the possibility of it being a symptom of psychic [ telepathic] confusion.
Possibly it is my desire to find a way to help these persons from their nightmare that leads me to delude myself into thinking that with acceptance of the possibility of collective consciousness we can offer treatments that would be beneficial.
It is possible that I have generated my telepathic experiences as a way of giving my empathy an expression, thus deluding myself and therefore lying as Skinwalker suggests.

Perhaps I am just tryng to find hope for those wretched souls lying in a gutter somewhere screaming obscenities at thier imaginary voices as they attempt to stop doing the terrible things that they are being told to do.

Perhaps in my desparation to vindicate my brothers suicide I have constructed an imaginary world of collective consciousness and interrelations on a universal scale. Perhaps I suffer from delusions of grandeur in thinking that some help may be found.
Perhaps my personal experiences are just a mere flimsy of a compassionate mind and imagination.
Tell me this is true and I will say no more on the subject .......

 

[shaman_]

mez)))))))))but you small cabal of Mscientistshere imagine in your 'fantasy' that you apporach to science --which is positivism--is THE ONLY apporach, and this is just NOT the case. you APPROPRIATE 'science' is whati am sayin....i was also pointing out that your sphilosophu underlying your attitudes has western white middle class scientists at the top of your consciousness-producing brain hypotesis tree

Sure I guess there can be many ways to approach science. However there will always be standards that need to be met. At the moment the evidence for telepathy does not meet them. You can make all the excuses you want, you can attack science and sceptics but you are really just skirting the issue.

I don't like your comments regarding who I put at the top of some tree. The origin, color and class of someone is irrelevent to me. Perhaps I misunderstand ?

me)))))ie., your ..errrr response to my challenge to you that you underestimate othev ways of gainin insight, like for example from psychedelic experience, etcetera

Sure you could gain some insight from psychedelic experience. But you are very negative towards the idea of facts. Facts may seem boring to you but you owe so much to science at its facts. Ungrateful hippy.

me))))but its part of tat HORRENDOUScontext. that is where your 'science' comes from. cold-hearted lab-eyes and brains with hard metalic Greys-like gadgets ready to stuff up unreceiving orifices

You have a good imagination duendy.

I think you were suggesting that a telepath wouldn't want to be tested in a lab or that telepathy might not work properly because labs are evil places where nasty experiments have taken place by scientists. It does not have to be a lab, just a controlled environment.

you sound like some teacher gettin ready to do some child caught dissenting from Big Bro's orders

It does sound like an excuse though doesn't it?

If I was a telepath I would love to go into a room full of sceptics and make fools of them with my abilities.

 

[SkinWalker]

Perhaps in my desparation to vindicate my brothers suicide I have constructed an imaginary world of collective consciousness and interrelations on a universal scale. Perhaps I suffer from delusions of grandeur in thinking that some help may be found.
Perhaps my personal experiences are just a mere flimsy of a compassionate mind and imagination.

You aren't be the first to allow grief to influence your thinking. The living are rarely ever prepared for the departure of loved ones and our grief is powerful. But that still doesn't validate concepts of 'collective consciousness' or 'telepathy.'

While these concepts are possible, it is far more probable that people who claim to have experienced them are lying or deluded. That is the clarification of what I was saying earlier. I mean that in partcular regard for those that claim to do just such feats of 'psychic' power by communicating with the dead (van Praagh, John Edwards) or who write books on "developing telepathy and psychic powers" and sell them to the gullible. Then of course there are the gullible themselves, who are so desparate for their beliefs in this sort of thing to be valid -perhaps for the very reasons you mention- or maybe they simply want their lives to be special or important.

 

[Happeh]

The wrong questions are being asked. How about this one... if you wanted to, could you support the claim that telepathy exists?

What do you mean by support? Are you like Snakelord? You want a scientific report signed by 500 scientists? No. That is not going to happen.

Do you want me to promise you it is true? I will promise you on a stack of whatever holy books you admire. There is no doubt.

 

[Happeh]

Happeh, all the pejorative comments and derisive remarks in the English language won't change the fact that just because the supernatural and paranormal is fun to imagine doesn't make it true or even possible.

You deride the rules and boundaries of science and question the truth of its methods, but if we were in a plane at 32,000 feet over the Atlantic, you would accept the truth of science and the boundaries of physics quite well -all the while hoping that the engineers got their sums right.

Can you support the claim telepathy exists?

And all of your protestations that telepathy is the province of "woo woos" does not mean the telepathy does not exist.

I do not deride the rules of science. When some person in a forum says "prove it", and they know the proof requries millions of dollars, years of time, and lots of scientific work, they are being unreasonable. Anyone with those kinds of resources will not be on an internet forums. They will be drinking champagne and eating caviar.

What do you mean support? Like I said in the other post, I will swear on your momma's grave if that means anything to you.

 

[Happeh]

That is so often the case: hindsight is 20-20.
No, you are doing a perfectly good job of that yourself. My modest goal is to drive your inanities from any public forum, or at least to highlight the insanity of your inanity.
I think you will find the more conventional expression is "I could not care less about spelling". Stating you "could care less" explicitly means you place some significant level of importance on spelling. Your susbsequent statements suggest this is not so.
The value of good spelling and careful grammar is that it facilitates the communication process. It is also a gesture of respect towards the reader.
I see exactly what you are getting at: it is thoroughbred nonsense. I shall attack it directly and indirectly; explicitly and implicitly;with logic and evidence; sarcasm and irony; and in the process, if I can make you also look ridiculous, and thus further devalue your arguments, so be it. You see, I am very reasonable, but to a nonsense promoter like yourself I am not friendly.

Isn't your butt all tight and puckered from thinking and writing like that? I am not kidding. You are making yourself tense and sick with that kind of thought patterns.

If this was work, or school or someplace else it mattered, I might pay attention to spelling. Since it is mostly people attacking me, why should I expend the effort? You are not worth it.

 

[Happeh]

Agreed!!!

If the proponents of telepathy could offer some (any!) kind rational approach in an attempt to establish their belief as fact, it would be completely different. But the problem is that most of the believers are generally somewhat irrational in both their thinking AND their presentation. It often includes emotions and clearly paranoia is a common factor in many cases (the telepath "fears for his life").

What can you do with people that are blind to politicians and the violent? People are murdered every day to hide evidence. Telepaths would have the ultimate evidence. They could pluck it straight from someone's mind. Yet for some reason, saying they would be the targets of criminals and murderers is paranoia.

For a scientific person, your thinking doesn't seem to work too good.

Another thing which the believers choose to ignore is that fact that if telepathy actually existed - or was was wide-spread as many seem to claim - it's effects in society would be clearly obvious. Millions of dollars would be ripped from bank accounts daily (by knowing people's PINs), military and industrial secrets would be trading like stocks and bonds, thousands - if not millions of people would be undergoing blackmail, and the list is practically endless!!! It would be VERY apparent if there were true telepaths among us.

Listen very carefully. How do you know this does NOT happen? There could be telepaths behind all the big crimes you read about. But no one talks about it because no one believes in telepathy.

And there is another side issue to all this that causes me a little concern. The believers always appear outraged, or at the very least more than mildly annoyed, whenever anyone asks for evidence. They are willing to accept - without question - the flimsiest of evidence (if you can even call it "evidence"). So my concern is what happens when one or more of these people appear in the jury box? They are quite likely to accept and believe even the thinnest of evidence. It goes without saying that critical thinking isn't their strong point.

It is because you are calling people a liar. Someone says "I know for a fact that telepathy exists". Then you or someone else says "No it doesn't, prove it". You just called that person a liar. Then you are surprised when they react poorly.

Let me get in your face in a public setting and tell people you are lying. Because of the social situation, you will react strongly to protect your reputation.

 

[Happeh]

I guess it is possible that because of my empathy for these persons I am willing to explore the possibility of it being a symptom of psychic [ telepathic] confusion.
Possibly it is my desire to find a way to help these persons from their nightmare that leads me to delude myself into thinking that with acceptance of the possibility of collective consciousness we can offer treatments that would be beneficial.
It is possible that I have generated my telepathic experiences as a way of giving my empathy an expression, thus deluding myself and therefore lying as Skinwalker suggests.

Perhaps I am just tryng to find hope for those wretched souls lying in a gutter somewhere screaming obscenities at thier imaginary voices as they attempt to stop doing the terrible things that they are being told to do.

Perhaps in my desparation to vindicate my brothers suicide I have constructed an imaginary world of collective consciousness and interrelations on a universal scale. Perhaps I suffer from delusions of grandeur in thinking that some help may be found.
Perhaps my personal experiences are just a mere flimsy of a compassionate mind and imagination.
Tell me this is true and I will say no more on the subject .......

And perhaps you are a blowhard that talks too much. Stop analyzing everything and accept reality.

 

[(Q)]

Happeh dazed:

Meditation is supposed to develop the mind. That is fact. What is not accepted fact is that meditation would help a person develop telepathy. It seems like a reasonable possiblity. Telepathy would naturally fall under the category of mental development.

No, it is not reasonable, it is fantasy. Telepathy falls under the category of pseudoscience.

Then I would ask you to consider the case of mystics. If you search your memory, you will find that most depictions or descriptions of mystics is that they are solitary. They have many other characteristics.

The only characteristics I've ever noticed from mystics is that they are idiots, morons, delusional, liars, confidence tricksters, etc.

The solitary lifestyle is the important one for this. A solitary lifestyle would be similar to meditation. Solitude that forced the mind to develop because there was no outside stimuli.

Or more precisely, solitude leads to fueling their delusions.

 

[Happeh]

I know that stories do not constitute proof for people here. Nevertheless, that is all the proof you will ever receive. For a very good reason. Telepathy is a subjective thing. Meaning a person must experience it for themselves to believe in it. You cannot see telepathy any more than you can see the microwaves going into your phone. Even though you can't see microwaves, you know they are there because your phone works. Even though you can't figure out how telepathy works, if you would shut your mouths and stop fighting and arguing, and be nice and calm and go looking for someone to help you, you might have some luck.

This story is about a child molester. This child molester kidnapped some kid off the street. He took her to his house where he molested her. Then, pay close attention, he put her in his car and he went to work for some reason or the other. While he was at work, the girl escaped from the car and the man was arrested.

I have a very obvious and simple question for you. Why did the man put the girl in his car and drive to work? Is that not the stupidest thing you ever heard? Driving around with a kidnap victim in your car? Going to your work with the kidnap victim in the car? Leaving the kidnap victim in the car while you walk away and leave them there? Isn't that stupid?

Yes it is stupid. No criminal in imagination could be that stupid.

I think someone controlled him. I think someone searched him out or found the little girl, then they made the man take the little girl to his work so she could escape or maybe a cop would stop the guy while he was driving.

You can poo poo and make all your little psychological diagnosis all you want. After many of these stories where weird things happen and people do weird things, you will begin to wonder. There are no coincidences in the world. There is a cause for everything.

 

[Happeh]

Happeh dazed:

Meditation is supposed to develop the mind. That is fact. What is not accepted fact is that meditation would help a person develop telepathy. It seems like a reasonable possiblity. Telepathy would naturally fall under the category of mental development.

No, it is not reasonable, it is fantasy. Telepathy falls under the category of pseudoscience.

If this argument degenerates into "Yes it is, no it isn't", I will have to leave.

Then I would ask you to consider the case of mystics. If you search your memory, you will find that most depictions or descriptions of mystics is that they are solitary. They have many other characteristics.

The only characteristics I've ever noticed from mystics is that they are idiots, morons, delusional, liars, confidence tricksters, etc.

You poor man. I honestly pity you. And I thank my guardian angel that I was allowed to find out what life is really about.

The solitary lifestyle is the important one for this. A solitary lifestyle would be similar to meditation. Solitude that forced the mind to develop because there was no outside stimuli.

Or more precisely, solitude leads to fueling their delusions.

You are sad. Keep living in that cynical world. I bet it gives you lots of satisfaction and happiness, doesn't it? Nothing like cuddling up to a machine and some cold hard scientific laws.

You know what? You ever watch the Terminator with Arnold Schwarznegger? You know the machines that take over the world? They are not really machines. They are you. People like you that have had their humanity stolen. All that is left is a husk with a machine mind to control it.

That is where this world is headed. Technology stealing the humanity from human beings. Those poor souls then taking out their pain on the rest of us that are still human by doing things like attacking Iraq and bombing their mosques. Making them afraid of their religion, their humanity.

 

[SkinWalker]

What do you mean support? Like I said in the other post, I will swear on your momma's grave if that means anything to you.

Your disdain for me is that great that you would attempt deride my mother as well? Or is that you are desparate to hurt someone who has "hurt your feelings" that you think mentioning my "momma's grave" will have some effect. This is what I find meaningful in your pathology, Happeh. Rather than seek a logical argument, you would interject pejorative and derisive comments to make your points. By "support," we mean any evidence. A demonstration. A clear example of "telepathy."

People swear on bibles and graves (by the way, you can swear on the graves of whatever dead relatives I have it it makes you happy -your own if you like) every day. Most of them are liars. Many of them are deluded. What good does "swearing" on a book or grave do for demonstrating the veracity of a claimant who is willing to lie or doesn't know what's real?

 

[(Q)]

If this argument degenerates into "Yes it is, no it isn't", I will have to leave.

So far, its been a one sided argument with you having no argument whatsoever - how could it possibly degenerate?

If you want to leave, do so. Your assertions are pointless.

You poor man. I honestly pity you. And I thank my guardian angel that I was allowed to find out what life is really about.

Go ahead and pity all you want, you can't muster an argument, so pity must be all you have left.

You are sad. Keep living in that cynical world. I bet it gives you lots of satisfaction and happiness, doesn't it? Nothing like cuddling up to a machine and some cold hard scientific laws.

Again, no argument whatsoever, only the spewing of venom and nonsense.

You know what? You ever watch the Terminator with Arnold Schwarznegger? You know the machines that take over the world? They are not really machines. They are you. People like you that have had their humanity stolen. All that is left is a husk with a machine mind to control it.

So, you can't produce an argument and instead spew nonsense about a movie. Really pathetic.

That is where this world is headed. Technology stealing the humanity from human beings. Those poor souls then taking out their pain on the rest of us that are still human by doing things like attacking Iraq and bombing their mosques. Making them afraid of their religion, their humanity.

You can't even keep thoughts straight in your head, must be the ADHD kicking in?

 

[duendy]

Sure I guess there can be many ways to approach science. However there will always be standards that need to be met.

me))WHO's 'standards'??

At the moment the evidence for telepathy does not meet them. You can make all the excuses you want, you can attack science and sceptics but you are really just skirting the issue.

me))))))No i am not. i am going straight to te roots of your cocksured origins, the beginnings of yer precious sci metod and its requirements. let me remind you....it is designed to leave sensuality, quality, vaue out. FINE set and setting that is isn't it. peple have to bow before your mechancially-minded set-up? not bloody likely boyo!....you...dis-believe all you wanna, it dont change shit you dont wont understand

I don't like your comments regarding who I put at the top of some tree. The origin, color and class of someone is irrelevent to me. Perhaps I misunderstand ?

me)))))no. i will make it clear. you may say you dont agree, but yur clingin to that mode of thought wich puts othrs down including Indegnous peoples from millenia back who are/wee 'pre-scientific'--well errr sorry, this stanceof yours places you in that elitist hierarchy, don't matter how much you deny it to us and yourself

Sure you could gain some insight from psychedelic experience. But you are very negative towards the idea of facts. Facts may seem boring to you but you owe so much to science at its facts. Ungrateful hippy.

me)))))))dont be patronIZing...i am ware of discoveries and teir appliance, but you lot take OVER. you and yur cold hearted instruments want to examine and disclude soul itself. this is what you have DONE, but can't see it. know why? cause you've been blinded by science is why. you've LOST your soul!

You have a good imagination duendy.

I think you were suggesting that a telepath wouldn't want to be tested in a lab or that telepathy might not work properly because labs are evil places where nasty experiments have taken place by scientists. It does not have to be a lab, just a controlled environment.

me)))))))whicxh souuunds friggin shit don't it? a 'controlled environment' IS THEEEE encroaching nightmare of our times!

It does sound like an excuse though doesn't it?

If I was a telepath I would love to go into a room full of sceptics and make fools of them with my abilities.

tis is what worries me. you see your mindset i a claiming is mechanical and souless. IF you'll could patent 'telepathy' then you'd produce it, market it, and it's be the hottest thing in te post Christmas sales....right? cause that's the gross name of the game aint it. that is what 'Mscience' has brought us to ....dont ya think???

 

[Zephyr]

Duendy, a lot of people go into scientific disciplines because they believe it's the best way to learn about things that interest them. Science has led (via engineering, etc) to things like computers, this Internet forum, and medical techniques which have saved many who would have died. Do you think these are evil?

Happeh, have you thought of the possible positive implications of telepathy (if it exists)?

And, has this already been debunked, or is it worth looking at? http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

 

[mouse]

Why do you think telepathy is not known and practiced globally?

It would be hard to miss if it was.

Rigid people who have to be hit over the head to believe anything.

Oh no, I work on assumptions just like you. The difference is perhaps that mine are continuously tested against reality. I'm ready to change my assumptions if they are proven incorrect, can you say the same?

If you left those people, and found new people, how do you know that these new people will not tell you that telepathy is known and practiced globally?

Even if they would, that doesn't make your, or their, point valid. It's my experience that what people can claim to be true and what they can demonstrate to be true is not always equal.

You are blinded by western superiority.

Why is that? What superiority?

You are gullible for authority.

It is my intention to hold any one, an authority or otherwise, against the same standards.

Doesn't Africa have all kinds of legends of this and that? Spirits, magic, witch doctors etc?

A common theme in human legends is an animal's ability to talk, think and act like a human. Do you believe in talking animals too? What about dragons? Surely, you understand that your line of reasoning is flawed.

What does the western world say? That is superstition.

I do not think that the "western world" speaks with one voice.

What if it wasn't superstition. What if superstition was a lie?

Then we would have seen some evidence of it, wouldn't we? You ask me to accept something just on the basis that a whole bunch of other people state it to be true. That's just not good enough, a whole bunch of people can be wrong.

Be honest. What kind of people do you hang out with? Are you white and you only hang out with white people? Are you a rich yuppie scientist and you only hang out with other rich yuppie scientists? Have you ever looked into any other cultures to find out what they beleive?

My friends, my skin colour, my financial status, my job and my cultural background are utterly irrelevant to the topic of you being unable to give a single shred of evidence for the existence of telepathy.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

What do you mean by support? Are you like Snakelord? You want a scientific report signed by 500 scientists? No. That is not going to happen.

Do you want me to promise you it is true? I will promise you on a stack of whatever holy books you admire. There is no doubt.

It really shouldn't be nearly as hard as the statements above are making it. Let me exemplify the concept.

If my window was broken and electronics were missing from my house then that would serve as evidence that I had been robbed. If met a friend, took some picutures, and introduced him to my wife then that would serve as evidence that my friend exists.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Skin and CC can I ask you a question?

But of course QQ.

Do you believe in the existence of a photon? What I mean by photon I mean a free ranging particle /wave that is independent of it's reflector. [ reflector being a mirror, an object of mass, the eye, or measuring equipment.]

Nope. I do however, know that an unobservable entity exists that interacts with the environment as both a particle, wave, and energy. That entity is called a photon.

Is the evidence of light merely the evidence of a reflector or is it evidence of a photon?

It's evidence of a relationship and the entities making up both halves of the relationship.

Now you may laugh at the question and say that the photon has been proved to exist in countelss experiments. But I ask you are you just observing it's effect on a reflector or are you observing the photon itself?

To my knowledge, experiments are only observing the effect.

If you would care to show any evidence to support the existence of a photon as a particle or wave that can be observed independent of it's reflector I will rest my case.

If we're strictly talking about reflectors then sure. I can provide support by converting photons to energy or with chemical reaction. If we're talking about detecting them without detection tools then I don't think this can be done.

The point being that pseudo science is often claimed to be rubbish and bunk. Well I make the same claim as to the photon as commonly described in science.

A big difference in this case is evidence. I can go to the store and buy a calculator that will convert photons into electricity (no battaries needed). I can't go to the store and buy a device that will convert my thoughts into text.

Light is an effect not a substance and that's my contention.

Light isn't a substance... it has no mass. It is a form of energy that has a relationship 'things' in reality.

Now science is declaring the existence of a photon. Yet I fail to see any evidence to prove it's existence except by it's effect on a reflecting mass. [ including measuring equipment.]

Reflection is one thing to consider. There is also absorbtion, conversion, testable prediction, simulation, etc.

I am not saying that science is all bunk etc. What I am saying is that even science has it's religious overtones and espouses many things yet to be determined as fact, as fact. It is true that it has utility and that our current understanding of light pheno is useful, but it may yet prove to be the greatest observational mistake yet.

If science is in error about the nature of a photon then the model can always be revised. This happens. Any religious overtones come from people. Science is just a means to understand reality.

Light has never to my knowledge been observed in transit. It has never been observed to actually travel, however it effect suggests that it does, but is this actual evidence of a phton or just merely an effect of energy.
Most physics theories are premsed on the notion that light travels from A to B and yet no one has actually proved conclusively that this is the case. It has not been observed to travel as the particle /wave model we use.

There is no doubt alot of unknowns concerning the ol' photon. According to my interpretation of qmechanics, photons don't travel through time. They only travel through space (something very odd considering a measureble velocity has been assigne to photons).

So prove to us that the photon exists as an object independent of a reflector. That it travels accordingly and we have something to declare as the fact that science wants us to believe. And just about all of science can rest in the knowledge that it isn't thoroughly deluded in it's understanding of how the universe works.

If it's just a reflector we're concerned with then I can offer proof although I can't declare all the details as absolute fact. There is still alot we don't know and the best anyone can do is offer a testable model.

[/QUOTE]
I must ask the same question for our photon?

Can you support the claim that a photon exists?[/QUOTE]

Of course.

 

[duendy]

Duendy, a lot of people go into scientific disciplines because they believe it's the best way to learn about things that interest them. Science has led (via engineering, etc) to things like computers, this Internet forum, and medical techniques which have saved many who would have died. Do you think these are evil?

me)))))whe mindsets become mechanicalized then that can lead to evil of course. whih is what materialistic science can contribute too. itis a worldview with unconscious mystical metaphysical assumptions. ie., the dream of conquering disease and death etc.

Happeh, have you thought of the possible positive implications of telepathy (if it exists)?

And, has this already been debunked, or is it worth looking at? http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

))))))))))((((((((())))

 

[Huwy]

wooowooowooo!! I can read your mind!!! woooowoooowoooo shazzaaam!!