Developing Telepathy
- Thread starter Lomion
- Start date
i hope when you say take it easy, you dont mean i should let people of without calling them out on their respective bullshit. i am called back to mine enough and i am willing to say that is my mess when and if it is. i will also endeavour to work out my differences with people to a reasonable degree with out being drawn into petty squabbles about trivia.
you know what i mean?
you know what i mean?
Light said:
Why are you being purposefully stupid?
You say you are a retired psycho something or other. That means you can read and research.
Start typing country names into google. Then look into the legends and superstitions for each country. Make a list of your results. Bring them back to show us. Maybe you will get lucky and prove I am wrong.
I doubt it.
SkinWalker said:
Baloney. If you had an ounce of Navajo in you, you would know mysticism was real.
I suggest getting away from the books and contacting your ancestors. Maybe if you are nice, DO NOT act the way you do here with people, be polite and open minded, maybe they will take you in and teach you some of it.
I think a sweat lodge would do you some good.
Crunchy Cat said:
Evidence that you are impossible to speak to? It is in the quote above.
You ever check out a place called Wrongplanet? It is for people with Aspergers. I met some people over there that talk just like you. Maybe you could find some friends there?
Happeh said:
Ahh.. so the pathology sets itself even deeper. Then you are so ethnocentric as to assume that one's ancestory dictates their intelligence? That belief in the supernatural is mandatory for certain ethnicities? What a wholey bigotted thing for you to suggest. I take great offense to that, quite honestly. It is as if my people are expected to just sit on the res, content with their Blessing Way stories and Healing each other with sand paintings. What nonsense. My people have every right to become lawyers, scientists, doctors, and astronauts. It is the silly, superstitious European that has, for centuries, oppressed the Navajo and others of Native origin -assuming that they could not be fully human because of their lack of technology; because they viewed the world as sacred and not the white man's gods or money.
And now, when a member of that very ethnic group that was for so long marginalized by "real Americans," gains an education superior to one of those white men, I'm advised to go back to the res. Fuck you.
Happeh, you casually mention the Sweat Lodge, linking it to mysticism, but I promise you that when *I* pour the sweat, even the most skeptical among will see visions. I could make (Q) see visions and hear things that will 'mystify' him. But it isn't magic, you silly git. It's physiology. The combination of heat, sweat and anxiety create the conditions that cause the brain to be stressed. Moreover, properly done, the Sweat is often the closing ceremony of a bigger event, one that has kept the body awake and physically stressed for hours even days. Though the Sweat *can* be used for personal contemplation.
It isn't mystical or magical. But until you lift your head from fantasy books and movies and come to your senses, you'll never know. You'll think you know. You'll continue to live in a deluded world, believing fantasy to be reality, but if you never bother to educate yourself and sharpen your critical thinking and reasoning skills, you are doomed to a life of fantasy.
If that floats your boat, go for it. But don't expect to post messages at a science forum that 'telepathy is real' and 'people can develop it' without being called on it.
If you cannot demonstrate it through controlled, replicable experimentation, saying you are 'telepathic' only makes you a liar or deluded.
Happeh said:
More statements of avoiding the issue. No evidence for the existence of 'telepathy' or 'spiritual energy' has been provided. Start showing evidence and we'll start talkin'.
duendy said:
Sounds like a good thread and I may take a look. Organic illness (virus, bacteria, parasite, etc) are not known as common causes of mental illness. I am not sure why this was thought. What is becoming very evident is that organic defects are very related to many cases. I predict that the significance of future discovery in this area will further contradict paranormal assertions.
duendy said:
Again, 'biological disease' hasn't been a very common reason for this kind of thing... at least not that I have been exposed to. Biological defect on the other hand is showing more and more relation.
It is correct that science hasn't resulted in a firm grip on conciousness yet. The 'poo pooing' in question is on the claims of people whom experience the unusal. It's not the experience itself that falls into doubt. It is the conclusions asserted by the experiencer. It usually goes something like this. I hear voices; therefore, 'telepathy' exists. Real event and false conclusion (based on 'belief' rather than 'evidence').
if i might--that is a rather generalized example that probably doesn't bear much resmblance to reality. From what i am awar, many people who hear voices do NOT assume 'talepathy'----many become worried they might have what this culture labels 'schizophrenia'Crunchy Cat said:
has Happeh said he was 'schizophrenic'? i think you are confusing about things
this is a very relevant quote which sums up where its at here
"The distinctin between "science" and "scientism" is profound. "Science" is defined as the PROCESS used to find truth. In contrast, "scientism" is a PHILOSOPHY of materialism, masquerading as scientific truth. Paranormal research has used the process of science to prov the existence of a variety of phenomena that simply doesn't fit within scientism's philosophy of materialism. If evidence conflicts with philosophy, the evidence should not be dismissed. Instead, the philosophy should be revised." 'Best Evidence Boook Review' http://www.nderf.org/Best Evidence book review.htm
"The distinctin between "science" and "scientism" is profound. "Science" is defined as the PROCESS used to find truth. In contrast, "scientism" is a PHILOSOPHY of materialism, masquerading as scientific truth. Paranormal research has used the process of science to prov the existence of a variety of phenomena that simply doesn't fit within scientism's philosophy of materialism. If evidence conflicts with philosophy, the evidence should not be dismissed. Instead, the philosophy should be revised." 'Best Evidence Boook Review' http://www.nderf.org/Best Evidence book review.htm
"Scientism" is the philosophy that the universe can be observed with scientific methodology. Any definition beyond that is rhetoric and meaningless.
Science uses that which is material to measure and observe. If it is immaterial -without mass or energy- then obviously it doesn't exist except as a thought, and even then, there are neurologists who would argue that thoughts have energy and mass in their synaptic processes.
So if it is without substance, what is it? The supernatural?
Just because you want a concept to be true, doesn't mean it is a valid concept. I'd like the concept of an afterlife and "The Force" that candy mentioned to be true. But they apparently exist only in the fantasies of humans.
The term "scientism" is simply rhetoric as used by anti-science types. Ironically, most of these are creationists, though many believe in the "religion" of the paranormal and New Age. Either way, it they are anti-science because they perceive science as a threat to their belief systems. Whether it be gods or 'telepathy' or 'witchraft.'
Science uses that which is material to measure and observe. If it is immaterial -without mass or energy- then obviously it doesn't exist except as a thought, and even then, there are neurologists who would argue that thoughts have energy and mass in their synaptic processes.
So if it is without substance, what is it? The supernatural?
Just because you want a concept to be true, doesn't mean it is a valid concept. I'd like the concept of an afterlife and "The Force" that candy mentioned to be true. But they apparently exist only in the fantasies of humans.
The term "scientism" is simply rhetoric as used by anti-science types. Ironically, most of these are creationists, though many believe in the "religion" of the paranormal and New Age. Either way, it they are anti-science because they perceive science as a threat to their belief systems. Whether it be gods or 'telepathy' or 'witchraft.'
SkinWalker said:
I take offense to the people who have contaminated science with their judgemental emotional opinions. Ascribing behaivior and belief to a group of human beings is called Anthropology. In Politics it is called bigotry. You apparently are unable to separate scientific thinking from political thinking.
SkinWalker said:
What is your trip? You are taking all of these political ideas and injecting them into this disccusion of mysticism etc. I can tell by your speech that you feel shame about being Indian. In the eyes of the popular culture, Indians are to be pitied. You have accepted the judgement of those people. That is your problem. I think you have made a mistake.
If you want money and power, then the path you have chosen is the way to attain it. If you want reality of life, good healthy, spirituality, those people you are so ashamed of are the ones you should be emulating.
SkinWalker said:
You would demean a sacred ritual like that by describing it as physiology. You describe your spiritual experiences as the delusions of a stressed mind. How sad.
SkinWalker said:
You are a self hating indian that thinks he can be one of the white guys if he shouts what whites believe, science, at the top of his lungs. If he proves he has renounced his superstitious indain heritage and accepted the dicatates of the white man.
Happeh said:
Who are they and what are their opinions? Or were you referring to me? If so, then you have yet to qualify that statement as well. My opinions are grounded in evidence. Something you've yet to demonstrate exists in your vocabulary. I freely admit the possibility that such things as 'telepathy' may exist. I merely state that there has yet been no evidence to support the claim and I question the veracity of those that claim they've "experienced" something that cannot be demonstrated or replicated. It appears to be nothing but fantasy and con.
Happeh said:
Again, you demonstrate only your ignorance and clear lack of education. Anthropology is the study of man. That includes the beliefs and behavior in many instances, but why shouldn't it? Man has many cultures with many beliefs and many behaviors. Are you suggesting that man should not study himself? If not, what is the proper way to conduct a study? Should belief and behavior be excluded? Would this not create a huge gap in knowledge of man?
Happeh said:
I don't see how you've demonstrated any qualifications to discuss what is scientific and what is political. To date, you've been wrong in both fields far more than you've been right.
Happeh said:
Discussions of 'mysticism' in a science board should be reduced to the psychological and anthropological meaning behind the belief systems of those that cling to mystical thought. Magical thinking is both an advantage and disadvantage to many cultures. In the context of this thread, magical thinking is a clear disadvantage because it is impeding critical thought and reason. The proponents of magical thinking in this thread appear to live in fantasy and fiction and cannot bring themselves to reason.
Happeh said:
Happeh, you've failed at every turn when it comes to making assumptions. Why should anyone believe that you can intuit 'shame' in the few words I've written. What specifically in my speech (sic) gives you intuition? Could it be that you've noticed that I was pissed that you assumed that a given ethnicity equates to an inability to have higher intellect? Could it be that I have not only sat in a Sweat Lodge, but poured more than one? Could it be that my screen name on this board is "SkinWalker," a Navajo witch? Yes, these are all indicators of shame, eh?
I'm very proud of my heritage. I'm proud of the fact that my ancestors were far more advanced in their worldview than the Europeans that eventually massacred and enslaved them. I'm very proud of the fact that their worldview includes the universe as sacred, not just a few bricks of a church or the select few that "chosen" or "saved" by their god. But I need not believe in the mysticism of my ancestors to respect them for it. And when I sit in a hogan while an elder creates a sand painting to heal the flu symptoms of a child, I feel no shame but marvel at his skill in art. And I'm proud that I'm of a people that can create beautiful works of art with no with no need to share them with more than a few people. And, as the painting is obliterated by the elder, culminating the end of the ceremony, I feel no shame in the elder's artistic ability and no shame in slipping the parent a box of Triaminic so she can keep her fever down.
But you're right. I *do* feel shame from time to time. I feel shame that I belong to a species that has members of its population that consider themselves to be intelligent, but cannot separate fantasy from reality and believe in some global conspiracy that is out to get them in their fantasies.
Happeh said:
The path of an anthropologist/archaeologist? I take it you don't know too many then. None I know are very wealthy.
Happeh said:
What's sad is that there are those who cannot think beyond fantasy and their habits of magical thinking when they've had the advantages of education. I don't fault those indigenous peoples who have magical traditions, but for one such as yourself, with access to libraries, schools, and the internet, you fail to educate yourself. That, my friend, is what is demeaning. Demeaning to yourself. I need not believe there is something 'magical' or 'mystical' occurring to agree that something is sacred. Nor do I need believe in the 'magic' of the Sweat in order to benefit from it. The mind is able to do marvelous things and find marvelous introspection when stressed, which is what occurs in the Sweat. But tell me, friend, how many Sweats have you participated in?
But never mind that, your continued attempts at derision of those with whom you disagree is yet again failed. You fail at understanding others and yourself. It is you, my friend, that is to be pittied. It is you that demeans yourself.
Happeh said:
Again, this is more ethnocentric bullshit. You keep creating divisions between white and others. First, as an accusation that I was a white guy and part of the establishment, now that I'm an "uncle Tom" of sorts, turning my back on my people. Do the non-whites of the world not deserve to be educated? Is intellectualism and science only the domain of bigots such as yourself? You *are* a bigot, you know: just as sure as if you said the same about a black man who doesn't prefer fried foods, rap music, and shiny wheels on his car but rather an education in the sciences, classical music, and is a vegetarian. Should he receive the same criticism of thinking he can "be one of the white guys," or are such things available for the rest of the world's cultures.
Crunchy Cat said:
That is all quite correct, Crunchy Cat.
Again, as she does so often, Duendy's muddled thinking has led her down a primrose path (littered with LSD and mushrooms) to a totally incorrect conclusion.
No one, no serious professional in the field of psychology/psychiatry has ever claimed that mental illnesses are the result of biological infections. There are a few - VERY few - microorganisms (rabies is one) that can even make it through the barrier into the brain itself.
Duendy's warped thinking may be a result of the fact that many mental illnesses have been classed as "diseases" when "disorder" is actually the proper term to use. Why have they been classed that way (which I also disagree with)? Simple. It's all a result and a matter of medical insurance. Disorders can be covered but once it's classed as a disease it's more acceptable. Thus, alcoholism and drug abuse have also been placed in the disease category.
The only thing biological about mental illnesses is that the operation of the human brain has been physically impaired - and the brain is a biological organ.
That impairment is most commonly cause by physical trauma or by chemical substances - not microorganisms as Duendy wrongly seem to think medical science claims. It can also be induced by physical and mental abuse. Although the mind is an amazing thing, it has limits as to what it can tolerate.
It's too bad that Duendy will not see this post and what I have professionally explained here. Evidently she has placed me on her ignore list. It's actually of little consequence, though, because she wouldn't accept it anyway since it comes from someone who belongs to the "enemy" camp.
Lomion started this thread asking for ideas about his concept that by using the whole brain he could develop telepathy. Some posters have taken the position that as it has never had a 100% sucess rate that unexplained events are just random chance so therefore psi does not exist. Luckily for humanity not everyone subscribes tp the premise that if it has not been done it can not be done or we would be lucky to be living in caves. Ignoring or dismissing what has been demonstrated albeit without 100% reproducable results is not conducive to the creative process. Unlike most laboratory experiments psi involves human abilities that have variable outcomes much like athletic endevors do. Nobody hits a homerun everytime; batters would be considered great if they hit 1/3 of the pitches.
Not believing that psi is possible is a personal choice that does not include the right to preclude the idea that something may be possible and repressing the right of others to try to do it.
For those free thinkers who want to try to do psi there are numerous source of information out there so do not let the naysayers repress your creative spirit. With psi it seems that believing that it is possible is the first step to making it part of your reality. Psi appears to operate much like light if you want it to be a particle it is a particle; if you want it to be a wave it is a wave. With psi it is what you believe it to be. What the spirit/mind believes becomes your reality. Choose your own destiny. Do not let someone else deny you your dream.
Not believing that psi is possible is a personal choice that does not include the right to preclude the idea that something may be possible and repressing the right of others to try to do it.
For those free thinkers who want to try to do psi there are numerous source of information out there so do not let the naysayers repress your creative spirit. With psi it seems that believing that it is possible is the first step to making it part of your reality. Psi appears to operate much like light if you want it to be a particle it is a particle; if you want it to be a wave it is a wave. With psi it is what you believe it to be. What the spirit/mind believes becomes your reality. Choose your own destiny. Do not let someone else deny you your dream.