Developing Telepathy

[SkinWalker]

4) Self delusion.
It is more powerful than the first three and will function in any circumstances.

Borrowed from http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/schiz.html#Symptoms, in accordance with fair use:

Delusions

Delusions are false personal beliefs that are not subject to reason or contradictory evidence and are not explained by a person’s usual cultural concepts. Delusions may take on different themes. For example, patients suffering from paranoid-type symptoms—roughly one-third of people with schizophrenia—often have delusions of persecution, or false and irrational beliefs that they are being cheated, harassed, poisoned, or conspired against. These patients may believe that they, or a member of the family or someone close to them, are the focus of this persecution. In addition, delusions of grandeur, in which a person may believe he or she is a famous or important figure, may occur in schizophrenia. Sometimes the delusions experienced by people with schizophrenia are quite bizarre; for instance, believing that a neighbor is controlling their behavior with magnetic waves; that people on television are directing special messages to them; or that their thoughts are being broadcast aloud to others.

 

[(Q)]

Happeh sez:

I am honest, yet people accuse me of all kinds of things.

Then, perhaps if so many people are accusing you of things, you should take a good hard look at yourself. Maybe they're right.

I think you are being taken for a ride but you don't know it.

We knew you were trying to take everyone for a ride from the get-go.

Because you are so smart, like Skinwalker, and Light and all the other oh so intelligent know it alls, you won't accept anything but proof and evidence.

Of course, when you come here spouting ridiculous claims that have no basis in reality, you will be confronted and will be expected to provide evidence. Why should anyone accept those claims on your say-so, especially when you have no evidence?

I come in here and talk to you straight. Man to man. You guys want evidence and studies and my qualifications. When it turns out I don't have those, you dismiss me.

No, you are dismissed because you make extraordinary claims with no evidence. That is not straight talk by any standards.

Let's say I am a smart guy who knows how to manipulate people.

You're not, so the point is moot.

My way, talking to you straight like men, you guys get pissed off and angry and run away. You refuse to talk to me anymore because I am "impossible".

No, most are ignoring you because you live in a fantasy world created from fictional books, movies and TV.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

it is like i was explaining to QQ etc., a shortwhile ago......we have matter-energy which in principle it is possible to measure....whereas 'spirit'/consciousess, cannot be measured

For something to exist there has to be some kind of observable effect. There is no known effect that is beyond the possibility of measurement. Conciousness / self-wareness is tremendously complex and we haven't learned enough about it to determine all the what's and how's of measurement. This doesn't make it impossible... just really hard.

where i feel the ridicle, hostility, sneering, arrogance, fear, etc., comes from materialists when speaking about -what-can't-be-measured- is the fear of 'chaos'---of supersitition. ie., all the so-called phenomena of the religious paradigm they/you imagine you have disentangeled yourself from.......but, have you??? big question....

It's not religion and superstition that I am trying to keep at bay. It's raw belief. It's a thought process that accepts assertions as true without considering supportive or contradictive evidence. No human can escape it and every human can keep it in check if they so desire. I would love to believe in 'telekenisis', 'telepathy', 'god', 'pink unicorns', and any other attractive idea. Reality; however, doesn't provide any evidence for these notions.

I am sorry to hear that speaking with 'non-believers' leads to alot of negative emotional feeling. I receive alot of ridicle, hostility, sneering, etc. from 'believers' (see some of the comments that Happeh has thrown my way) and I don't let them affect my emotional well being. It's a practice called 'detached concern' (aka: having thick skin). Maybe it's something that can help with those negative feelings.

So this is why it is IMPORTANTO to really understand how 'spirit' was undertood by the paradigm you 'rebelled' against--
TO cut to the chase. you mscientists PRETENDyou are freee from superstition, and delusion, as you fear was much part of all the religious dogma, but i can very clearly see you haven't resolved all of that. you have simply changed terms and emphasis .....from 'spiritus' to 'materia' KEEPING the psychological assumption of division between 'spirit/consciousness and matter!

The only thing I have rebelled against is a thought process... 'belief' and when I come across claims (such as the existence of 'spirit') I am going to ask for evidence. I am not free from 'belief'... it's ingrained into my psychology as a survival mechanism. I am knowledeable enough to keep it in check and not let it interfere with exploring areas of reality that interest me.

Just for the record, the observations I have made suggest that conciousness is a result of a massive amount of chemical and electrical activity (a brain facilitates this). I have seen no evidence to suggest there is any kind of external link (a 'spirit').

For as i have already pointed out, the Church TOo separates 'spirit' from 'matter'. for it assumes 'spirit' is some form of transendental reality which can exist witout matter-energy, and its mystical branch,gnosticism even assumes matter-energy is evil....etc

It's a belief duendy... there is no evidence that I am aware of the supports this.

so all of this may SEEM to your solid-reality sense to be mere mystical fancy, but the research into all this is ALSO scientific. you are researcing about consciousness. in this case how men have created ideas that cause division between our sense of being and Nature

I read some results on scientific research into the mystical. The results provided no evidence to support the mystical even exists. If you're aware of other results then please by all means post the reference as I don't think anyone has ever seen evidence of this type before.

NOT understanding all about this, the problem dont go away but becomes UNconscious. because you are NOT just what yur measurements assume you are, JUSt objective machines--glorified computers. that is what we're exploring here

Sorry, I didn't understand what problem is being referred to here. If we are 'more' than objective machines then let's see the evidence that shows the additional components.

 

[ellion]

on the subject of consciousness and energy systems not normally identified there is some interesting research available at this site.

http://www.kirlian.org/kirlian2.htm

as well as ordinarliy unobservable energy patterns, they obseve consciousness, and emotional reactions through machines designed to specifically record the subtle menations of physical objects.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Man, I haven't seen those kirlian photographs since like sophmore year in high school. Always liked em'. It's a funky corona effect from high voltage. It's interesting that emotional state results in visible differences.

I wouldn't go as far as declaring this as observed conciousness however.

 

[Light]

Light, while working through the overnight (for me) postings I had just reached the point where I thought I had finally figured out what made Happeh tick. "This will impress the others", I thought, when bugger me, there you go with the same explanation - a fantasy world based upon works of fiction, whether books, TV or cinema.

Ha-ha! You know what they say, Ophiolite, "great minds think alike."

This started me a thinking. Metaphor is a powerful tool in the human tool kit. It is argubly lies at the heart of all art, and plays a key role in science (replete with its models of reality) and technology (for example, the use of maps as a metaphor for the territory). Has any particular 'school' of pyschology focused on this aspect of how the brain interprets reality, especially as it relates to chronic failure to distinguish between the metaphor and the reality, the analogy and the actuality?

Absolutely! And well put, by the way. It's not an actual "school" per se , but rather something that can be common is several different psychoses. Primarily, it's a situation of not being able to tell reality from fantasy/imagination but it most certainly can be a case of reality vs. metaphor - exactly as you described it.

Rather than dealing with all the various disorders that can present that particular distortion, let's take a quick look at one that most people have at least some degree of perception of - schizophrenia. As you probably know (but others may not), the word itself is derived from two words that mean "split" and "mind." And, of course, a divided mind can easily lead to that sort of disorder.

Perhaps a little off this particular topic but VERY related to this entire thread is something I believe you'll find interesting. The following is a quote from a widely-used text and I've bolded the part that is especially pertinent to this thread:

"The principal disturbance in the schizophrenic's thought processes is multiple delusions. This is divided into two sub-categories, persecutory delusions (in which the schizophrenic believes that he/she is being talked about, spied upon, or their death being planned) and delusions of reference (which is when the schizophrenic gives personal importance to completely unrelated incidents, objects, or people. Other common delusions include thought broadcasting (they believe their thoughts are visible to the outside world) and thought insertion, which is what most people perceive schizophrenia as consisting of (their thoughts are not their own and are in truth being inserted into their minds by some outside force). "

You will probably recall (or a quick look back through the thread will reveal it) that exact same thing being expressed here. I've learned the hard way not to name names on these forums but I believe you'll readily understand how clearly this applies to at least three different forum members. Sad, but a fact nevertheless. And they don't even realize how clearly they are exposing their problems to the whole world.

 

[ellion]

Has any particular 'school' of pyschology focused on this aspect of how the brain interprets reality, especially as it relates to chronic failure to distinguish between the metaphor and the reality, the analogy and the actuality?

the school of psychology that deals with these identifications is gestalt. google "Gestalt" there are plemty of resources.

 

[ellion]

I wouldn't go as far as declaring this as observed conciousness however.

your right, that was my bad. i should have better said, emotional and cognitive reactions rather than consciousness, and emotional reactions.

 

[Quantum Quack]

So Light, how do you address the issue of ignoring the potential of pheromone induced psychosis?

 

[(Q)]

as well as ordinarliy unobservable energy patterns, they obseve consciousness, and emotional reactions through machines designed to specifically record the subtle menations of physical objects.

Hogwash. Those photos were created using capacitive discharge generator - its called electrophotography. You've been duped.

 

[Quantum Quack]

The problem I see with pheromones as an explanation for telepathy is that pheromone detection would require proximity so it can not explain long distance events.

Happeh exactly which psi skills have you mastered?
From what I have read there appears to be 3 avenues to psi, 1) Focused attention, 2)deep relaxation, 3) intense fear. Does this work for you or do you employ another method?

Candey, what evidence is there to suggest that the sense of smell is limited by proximity or distance?
Is it just because that is all we can currently measure?

We conscious beings of course can only deal with that which we can consciously discern. It is IMO unwise to state that our senses are limited only to the conscious realm there fore limitations.

So much of our behaviour and awareness involves that which is sub or un-conscious.
There is evidence in the animal world of long distance smelling, sharks and whales not to mention dolphins and other animals.
Why do we consider ourselves to be less sensitive than say a whale or shark?
Is it only because we are too busy with our other senses that we can not devote the attention to the potential of those senses?
I would put it too you and others that our sensory capability is by far superior to any other animal. We stand in awe of a whales sensory abilities yet pooh pooh our own.

Intuition for example is an outcome of our sense of smell, and if one considers that this sense is not limited to proximity then "extended reference intuition" [ over large distances] can make sense.

Now if one accepts even for a moment that this is correct, we have a possible reason for the problems a mentaly unstable person experiences.

How does the smell of another persons thoughts present itself to a "schizophrenic"? Possibly it is experienced and interpreted as "thought insertion".
How does a person interpret anothers behaviour when it appears to be caused by intimate knowledge of the sufferers thoughts?..."Thought broadcasting".
And why is this a problem for the sufferer? Fear....simply fear that is manifested as paranoia as the sufferer attempts to deal with what he knows as truth. A very intense truth that every one around him is saying is delusion.

We broadcast and insert thoughts all the time, and normally we take this for granted. Then someone comes along and claims this is happening and we immediately shut him down [ usualy with heavy meds] instead of considering that he has amplified reactions to what we all take for granted.
Why do we do this? Fear simply fear manifested as paranoia as the "sane" person attempts to deal with the reality of what the sufferer is attempting to describe.

What amplifies the reactions in both the sufferer and non-sufferer.?..yep...you guessed it....fear does.

So if we de-mystify the potential of our noses we can come up with possible causality for these symptoms that disturbed and not so disturbed persons talk of.

 

[ellion]

Those photos were created using capacitive discharge generator - its called electrophotography.

the images of the electrophotography change in accordacne with the internal states of individuals, plants and minerals. the electrophotographic technique does not change the images and the subjects photographed change.

 

[duendy]

Borrowed from http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/schiz.html#Symptoms, in accordance with fair use:

Delusions

Delusions are false personal beliefs that are not subject to reason or contradictory evidence and are not explained by a person?s usual cultural concepts. Delusions may take on different themes. For example, patients suffering from paranoid-type symptoms?roughly one-third of people with schizophrenia?often have delusions of persecution, or false and irrational beliefs that they are being cheated, harassed, poisoned, or conspired against. These patients may believe that they, or a member of the family or someone close to them, are the focus of this persecution. In addition, delusions of grandeur, in which a person may believe he or she is a famous or important figure, may occur in schizophrenia. Sometimes the delusions experienced by people with schizophrenia are quite bizarre; for instance, believing that a neighbor is controlling their behavior with magnetic waves; that people on television are directing special messages to them; or that their thoughts are being broadcast aloud to others.

OH HERE WE GO YOU'LL. forthose who UNDERSTANd understand that tis accusation of 'mental illness' by the materialistc scienctists is THE MAINSTAY OF THEIR RELIGION!!!.....as with the Churchian times which accused those who were 'heretics' asbeing demon-possessed, now the dissenteres of the materialistic dogma are accused be being mentally ill. thing is boys, itisna myth as is your belief in mterialism. notice i aint calling you 'mentally ill', as that would tar me with the same brush----ie., being taken in by social-controlling propaganda
btw....didn't se any of yous at the other threads focussin on thismyth....??

 

[Light]

Candey, what evidence is there to suggest that the sense of smell is limited by proximity or distance?
Is it just because that is all we can currently measure?

We conscious beings of course can only deal with that which we can consciously discern. It is IMO unwise to state that our senses are limited only to the conscious realm there fore limitations.

So much of our behaviour and awareness involves that which is sub or un-conscious.
There is evidence in the animal world of long distance smelling, sharks and whales not to mention dolphins and other animals.
Why do we consider ourselves to be less sensitive than say a whale or shark?
Is it only because we are too busy with our other senses that we can not devote the attention to the potential of those senses?
I would put it too you and others that our sensory capability is by far superior to any other animal. We stand in awe of a whales sensory abilities yet pooh pooh our own.

Intuition for example is an outcome of our sense of smell, and if one considers that this sense is not limited to proximity then "extended reference intuition" [ over large distances] can make sense.

Now if one accepts even for a moment that this is correct, we have a possible reason for the problems a mentaly unstable person experiences.

How does the smell of another persons thoughts present itself to a "schizophrenic"? Possibly it is experienced and interpreted as "thought insertion".
How does a person interpret anothers behaviour when it appears to be caused by intimate knowledge of the sufferers thoughts?..."Thought broadcasting".
And why is this a problem for the sufferer? Fear....simply fear that is manifested as paranoia as the sufferer attempts to deal with what he knows as truth. A very intense truth that every one around him is saying is delusion.

We broadcast and insert thoughts all the time, and normally we take this for granted. Then someone comes along and claims this is happening and we immediately shut him down [ usualy with heavy meds] instead of considering that he has amplified reactions to what we all take for granted.
Why do we do this? Fear simply fear manifested as paranoia as the "sane" person attempts to deal with the reality of what the sufferer is attempting to describe.

What amplifies the reactions in both the sufferer and non-sufferer.?..yep...you guessed it....fear does.

So if we de-mystify the potential of our noses we can come up with possible causality for these symptoms that disturbed and not so disturbed persons talk of.

I'm afraid you're on a dead end street, Quantum. There's a whole branch of zoology that deals exclusively with animals sensory ability and plenty of evidence that one animal or another beats the human's perception by miles.

For example, the hawk's telescopic vision that can spot a single small mouse from hundreds of feet in the air. The ability of many smaller creatures to feel the vibration of the ground when a predator is walking some distance away. Many insects and some animals can see in UV which is invisible to humans. Sharks, as you mentioned can smell/taste blood in the water on the order of parts per million.

And more to the point, smell. Practically all animals have a much keener sense of smell than do humans. I believe I read somewhere that a dog's sense of smell has been proven to to something like seven to ten times keener than that of man. (Which is precisely why they are used to located victims of earthquakes and sniff out drugs and explosives.)

Yes, there are human pheromones but the only one that's been positively identified is one related to sex. (Which is also why humans have pubic hair to help disperse it.) There may also be one for fear as there seems to be some evidence for it. It's also quite likely that we once had a much sharper sense of smell but lost most of it over the eons of time.

But there's no evidence that I've ever heard of that we employ smell as any sort of "communication" at all other than sex. I'm sorry to say that I think that whole line of reasoning is purely speculation on your part.

 

[Ophiolite]

One is reminded of the apocryphal tale of the school child, who wrote in an essay
"The cow has an excellent sense of smell. You can smell one miles away."

 

[duendy]

For something to exist there has to be some kind of observable effect.

me]]]]]]]]THAT very assumption has a history. it is positivism.

There is no known effect that is beyond the possibility of measurement.

me]]]]]]]]obviously there are, otherwhise therer wouldn't be any discussions here , right. of events you lot cannot measure or describe. what are te odds that if even just ONE 'non-ordinary' event is true it demolishes your surieites of 'measurement'?

Conciousness / self-wareness is tremendously complex and we haven't learned enough about it to determine all the what's and how's of measurement.

me]]]]]]]yes you are right at first part of what you say, but ten fall back on your religious dependence of measurement. you are lost--in limboland less you feel you can measure. you have never really left Newtonian science have you?

This doesn't make it impossible... just really hard.

me]]]]]]]which is reason its called the HARD problem



It's not religion and superstition that I am trying to keep at bay. It's raw belief. It's a thought process that accepts assertions as true without considering supportive or contradictive evidence. No human can escape it and every human can keep it in check if they so desire. I would love to believe in 'telekenisis', 'telepathy', 'god', 'pink unicorns', and any other attractive idea. Reality; however, doesn't provide any evidence for these notions.

me]]]]]]]]WHY would you love to believe in them? to say such a thing implies you feel something missing in your life.........and you lot claim us lot are 'believers'--as tho you aint solidly beliving in your myth. no, we , ori am an explorer. i am flexible and listen to people who tell me thingsi dont understand without resorting to constantly insulting them. even when yu dont know what yer talkin about!!! (not that you have, but you seem to belong to their camp)

I am sorry to hear that speaking with 'non-believers' leads to alot of negative emotional feeling. I receive alot of ridicle, hostility, sneering, etc. from 'believers' (see some of the comments that Happeh has thrown my way) and I don't let them affect my emotional well being. It's a practice called 'detached concern' (aka: having thick skin). Maybe it's something that can help with those negative feelings.

me]]]]]]]]]yes, as usual you seem to notice Happehn's defensive gestures, but CONVENIENTLY are Unconscious about the utter hostility, even including 'daignoses' of mental illness-no less--from your comrades in arms. selctive or what????



The only thing I have rebelled against is a thought process... 'belief' and when I come across claims (such as the existence of 'spirit') I am going to ask for evidence. I am not free from 'belief'... it's ingrained into my psychology as a survival mechanism. I am knowledeable enough to keep it in check and not let it interfere with exploring areas of reality that interest me.

me]]]]]]]]who is the'you' keeping 'it' in check?? you admit you dont understand consciousness right, yet sit there assuming 'you' cn 'keep itin check'.....you have no idea no idea of the complexity, really. the games people play on themselves....

Just for the record, the observations I have made suggest that conciousness is a result of a massive amount of chemical and electrical activity (a brain facilitates this). I have seen no evidence to suggest there is any kind of external link (a 'spirit').

me]]]]]]oh god. see whati mean. look, try and just read an overview ofthe hard problem (David Chalmers), because it is painfully obcious CC you know notof what you speak.



It's a belief duendy... there is no evidence that I am aware of the supports this.

me]]]]]]]see above. you are confusing objective examination of brain with subjective feeling of consciousness. as said...if you REALLY are srious about exploring this, its important you realize WHAT te Hard Problem MEANS, no?



I read some results on scientific research into the mystical. The results provided no evidence to support the mystical even exists. If you're aware of other results then please by all means post the reference as I don't think anyone has ever seen evidence of this type before.

me))))))buyt iam notMEANING 'mystical'. 'mystical' is part of te same sorry mindset i am going on about--that psychologically separates matter-energy from 'spirit'/consciousness......




Sorry, I didn't understand what problem is being referred to here. If we are 'more' than objective machines then let's see the evidence that shows the additional components.

b ut dont you yet see, CC, it is your CRITERIA for ' solid evidence' that IS your IMPASSE to understanding about whats being said. you are asking the wrong questions
you have to greeatly broaden your field of research to begin exploring about all this!

 

[Quantum Quack]

Light it is a little funny that you should denounce our own sensory potentials.

15 years ago I was sitting half way up Uluru [ Ayers Rock ] in central Australia filming a sunset using a video camera and I got a wiff of sea air from the North. The wind was blowing from the west.
Now from this position the sea was over 2000kms away and even though you will probably say that it was probably just a salt plain or something a little closer I would reply by saying that you obviously can't tell the difference between fresh sea salt and stale plain salt. [ dired lake of salty water ]
Apparently it is quite common for persons to mention smelling the sea from the top of Ayers rock.

So whilst I can't prove at this time the efficiency of our 'ole hooters I have no trouble knowing it to be true.

Of course the way to shoot this observation in the foot so to speak is to claim that I suffered a sensory halucination of some sort and that I am deluded.
Hell, any persons observation can be shot to pieces with the "your deluded arguement". I am not sure but at this point in time I don't think smells can be captured on video or held in some way to prove anything. So how do I support my observation? Impossible to do yes?

Do I expect you take my word for it? Of course not.
Do I change my opinion about the experience? Ditto.

 

[shaman_]

OH HERE WE GO YOU'LL. forthose who UNDERSTANd understand that tis accusation of 'mental illness' by the materialistc scienctists is THE MAINSTAY OF THEIR RELIGION!!!.....as with the Churchian times which accused those who were 'heretics' asbeing demon-possessed, now the dissenteres of the materialistic dogma are accused be being mentally ill. thing is boys, itisna myth as is your belief in mterialism. notice i aint calling you 'mentally ill', as that would tar me with the same brush----ie., being taken in by social-controlling propaganda
btw....didn't se any of yous at the other threads focussin on thismyth....??

Do you think there are no deluded people duendy?

 

[ellion]

Those photos were created using capacitive discharge generator - its called electrophotography.

the images of the electrophotography change in accordacne with the internal states of individuals, plants and minerals. the electrophotographic technique does not change the images and the subjects photographed change.

any way the point i was going to make but never: is the human body radiates subtle emanations (apart from pheromones) such as Light, Heat, Chemical, Electric and Magnetic energy possibly others that we have no idea about as yet.

so it is a possibility that these emanations of the body could carry with them information about the body.

it is als a possibilty that another sensitive body is able to interpert the information. this is an extension of QQ's pheromone theory though closer to the subtleties of consciousness than the olfactory senses (even the professor here has figured out we don't think in smells.)

anyway its a possible mecahanism for the transference of information between unconnected bodies.

 

[Quantum Quack]

You may be convinced of your limitations by your own belief systems but I certainly arenot convinced that your limitations apply and are not also a form of delusion. You believe so striongly in your conscious limitations that the potential you have is so severely suppressed your delusions of limitations are as real to you as my delusions of the less limited are to me.