Cult Evolution

[(Q)]

Q,

Racism, bigotry, oppression, and ignorance have other basic roots far outside of the scope of religion;

If a worldview has always been clouded with cult thinking, how can any decision be outside the scope of that cult? If you can provide examples, we can look at what might affect those other roots.

however, the beak anology does work if we consider that belief allows people to make quick judgments in the absence of incomplete information and gains the resources and support of others whom share the same belief. In other words, the human propensity to believe has changed due to its surivival advantages (just as a Finch beak did the same).

The beak analogy was used to demonstrate how quickly and observably these changes can occur.

Survival should produce through evolution a natural altruistic worldview that supports cooperation, which attempts to benefit all parties concerned. Faith in mankind would take precedence over faith in gods.

But, it IS the faith in gods and not the faith in mankind which governs those whom share the same beliefs. A worldview based on this premise hasn't much of an advantage if it cannot sustain survival.

 

[(Q)]

What you would need to do is bar the reproduction of rational people and increase the reproduction of irrational people and this should, over time, change the genetic make up in the general population.

Couldn't we instead just bar the reproduction of myth and superstition?

 

[iceaura]

Evolution of theistic belief capability would be Lamarckian, in large part.

That proceeds by different rules and patterns than Darwinian evolution.

 

[(Q)]

At this point, it needs to be clarified:

Define "improbable", "irrational", "fact", "(to) reason".

Do you not have access to several online dictionaries?

How about a few examples?

It is "improbable" the necessity for gods to exist when science reasons through evidence not withstanding such a necessity.

The "irrational" is to make fact the unnecessary asserted necessity with only faith as evidence.

 

[greenberg]

Do you not have access to several online dictionaries?

If you see no problem with the standard definitions of those terms ... then I guess there cannot be much discussion and the OP and your subsequent posts are just stating the obvious.

 

[S.A.M.]

Survival should produce through evolution a natural altruistic worldview that supports cooperation, which attempts to benefit all parties concerned.

Evidence?

The beak analogy was used to demonstrate how quickly and observably these changes can occur.

Does this apply to anything other than finch beaks?

ie are finch beaks a standard for evolutionary changes? Have they been associated with psychological changes?

 

[Gustav]

Aren't you the resident psychologist with credentials?

Whats your input here?

dunno
maybe i tried here

 

[Gustav]

as can be evinced from link, i appear to have got my credentials from the bahamas

 

[S.A.M.]

dunno
maybe i tried here

I mean what is your opinion on evolutionary psychology and its nature (ie retrospective hypothesis) ?

 

[Gustav]

click the link darling
read
extrapolate
should be a decent fit

/distracted by varda's ass

 

[S.A.M.]

click the link darling
read
extrapolate
should be a decent fit

/distracted by varda's ass

Lets try again (or go on ignore forever) :bugeye:

Can you use the analogy of a finch beak to trace the development of a cult?

ie can you apply the non-adaptive origins of a biological development to a psychological one?

 

[Gustav]

hmm
tough old broad aint ya?

i disown my thoughts and adopt yours
of course it cannot

now
booby pic please

 

[S.A.M.]

hmm
tough old broad aint ya?

i disown my thoughts and adopt yours
of course it cannot

now
booby pic please

Thank you. And here it is.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

If a worldview has always been clouded with cult thinking, how can any decision be outside the scope of that cult? If you can provide examples, we can look at what might affect those other roots.

Lets start with racism:

http://www.stupidnetworknews.com/front_page/racism_in_the_animal_kingdom.htm

The beak analogy was used to demonstrate how quickly and observably these changes can occur.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

Survival should produce through evolution a natural altruistic worldview that supports cooperation, which attempts to benefit all parties concerned. Faith in mankind would take precedence over faith in gods.

I disagree. Evolution produces whatever behavior allows persistence. I saw an article recently about a science group whom put some learning robots in an environment where there is food (current) and fatal poison (current subtraction). Some robots would sacrafice themselves in feats of altruism for the good of the group and others would sacrafice their bretheren so they could get more food. The majority just followed the leaders. I can see if I can dig up a reference if you're interested.

But, it IS the faith in gods and not the faith in mankind which governs those whom share the same beliefs. A worldview based on this premise hasn't much of an advantage if it cannot sustain survival.

Don't forget, 'God' is an anthropomorphization of reality and anthropomorphism has a survival advantage. Survival is simply about persistence (the 'result' not the 'means'). The means can be completely retarded from a social standpoint but nature cares not about it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Evolution produces whatever behavior allows persistence.

I disagree. Evolution does not "produce" anything. The benefits are retroactive to the diversity.

The "adaptation" is an inference after the fact.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I disagree. Evolution does not "produce" anything. The benefits are retroactive to the diversity.

The "adaptation" is an inference after the fact.

I agree... bad choice of words on my part.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Yikes, did I just agree with SAM?

 

[(Q)]

Lets start with racism:

http://www.stupidnetworknews.com/front_page/racism_in_the_animal_kingdom.htm

This had me laughing:

"Dr. Holden and his colleagues also believe that there is evidence for genetic racism in species other than humans. For example a yellow duckling that is observed commanding black ducklings to build a wall is proof of the theory they say."

I disagree. Evolution produces whatever behavior allows persistence.

Then, it is the persistent forcing of myth and superstition as fact that would produce such behavior.

Don't forget, 'God' is an anthropomorphization of reality and anthropomorphism has a survival advantage. Survival is simply about persistence (the 'result' not the 'means'). The means can be completely retarded from a social standpoint but nature cares not about it.

I'm not sure I get the connection between the supernatural as a survival advantage and persistence?

 

[(Q)]

I agree... bad choice of words on my part.

You were correct, Sam was wrong. Evolution does in fact, "produce."

Evolution, in regards to speciation, "produces" new species.

 

[Gustav]

ducks are colorblind, ja