Could a just god punish people for their beliefs?

[Giambattista]

But Adstar is probably a believer in predestination, so if you were destined to be saved, God would lead you to make the right choice, while the unlucky ones will be sent a "strong delusion" so that they may NOT believe.

Free will, at God's discretion.

 

[stretched]

For the life of me I will never understand Christian arrogance.

 

[iam]

But Adstar is probably a believer in predestination, so if you were destined to be saved, God would lead you to make the right choice, while the unlucky ones will be sent a "strong delusion" so that they may NOT believe.

Free will, at God's discretion.

Lololol

 

[water]

For the life of me I will never understand Christian arrogance.

It's not *Christian* arrogance that is hard to understand. It is *arrogance* itself that is hard to understand. Any arrogance.

 

[Hapsburg]

Yeah, it's just that the "christian" part enhances the arrogancy a hundredfold.

 

[The Devil Inside]

muslims, hindus, and jews are also guilty of the charges you are levelling on christians.

 

[duendy]

muslims, hindus, and jews are also guilty of the charges you are levelling on christians.

including materialistic scientists, and teir followerss!

 

[Mythbuster]

Didn't some scientist said that there are about 11 different dimensions?
Why can't heaven be one?
And Hell be one?

 

[SnakeLord]

But Adstar is probably a believer in predestination, so if you were destined to be saved, God would lead you to make the right choice, while the unlucky ones will be sent a "strong delusion" so that they may NOT believe.

So, thus far we have gathered some important information:

Basically, picking the right religion is about being chosen. Thus every atheist and member of a wrong religion is indeed only that way because god made it so. Correct?

 

[duendy]

Didn't some scientist said that there are about 11 different dimensions?
Why can't heaven be one?
And Hell be one?

ahhh, yu mean dimensions of CONSCIOUSNESS. yes, why not, and checkout transpersonal psychology, being careful not to get it like a religion mind.....if you mention consciousness to a materialistic scientist when they harp on about 'dimensions' they tend to get upset...?
there proba;ly are dimentions of a SPECTRUM ofpotential and hybrid consciousness states.....when i look at a tree for example, andi see it in a way, different from how i saw it before, isn't that dimensional too?

 

[RoyLennigan]

ahhh, yu mean dimensions of CONSCIOUSNESS. yes, why not, and checkout transpersonal psychology, being careful not to get it like a religion mind.....if you mention consciousness to a materialistic scientist when they harp on about 'dimensions' they tend to get upset...?
there proba;ly are dimentions of a SPECTRUM ofpotential and hybrid consciousness states.....when i look at a tree for example, andi see it in a way, different from how i saw it before, isn't that dimensional too?

no, i think he meant dimensions in physical reality. at least that's what the theory is concerned with. string theory, if i'm thinking of the same one mythbuster is.

and you are redefining dimension in your usage here, duendy. a dimension is a measureable frame of position. on a graph there are two dimensions, x and y which relate to vertical and horizontal placement. in space there are three dimensions, vertical, horizontal, and and depth, perpendicular to the others. time is another dimension which measures position in change.

dimensions are not exotic and different universes that exist apart from our own. dimensions are the structure of our universe and how energy travels through the universe.

 

[duendy]

yes, iknow thew physical dimesnions. but you have to be really aware that the scientific understanding of 'dimensions'--even with such exotic theories as m-brane theoryare yet still physicalist. they do not include consciousness. this is why the whole 'problem' about consciousness is a great concern for science as we speak

 

[usp8riot]

Quick answer: We are God's children. As you can neither punish your child or reward them for not knowing of your rules, so shall God neither punish you for not knowing Him but neither can He reward you for following His rules. You will be no worse off and you will be no better off than before you existed as you are.
For a more in depth answer, here is text from a former blog I wrote: http://usp8riot.com/religious/thesis4.htm

 

[Mythbuster]

yes, iknow thew physical dimesnions. but you have to be really aware that the scientific understanding of 'dimensions'--even with such exotic theories as m-brane theoryare yet still physicalist. they do not include consciousness. this is why the whole 'problem' about consciousness is a great concern for science as we speak

Meybe that are talking about hypercube and beyond. I dont like the string theory that much & usp8riot, im not interested of your Islam.

 

[usp8riot]

I'm not Islam. I am more Christian but I'm open to all religions.

 

[terryoh]

"One thing that amuses me is that people are always blaming Religion for war... it's not religion's fault, it's mankind for choosing to do so."

Religion=Division
Mankind+religion=War

* Don`t believe everything you hear from the pulpit. Predominantly, Mankind goes to war on GROUNDS of religion. Whether the conflict is cultural or territorial, religion has been the fundamental motivator for war throughout history. Man will always be a warring animal, but religion exacerbates that trait to an incredible degree. Religion provides the excuse for CHOICES. The conflict in the Middle East today is religious in nature, and Israel (albeit a secular state) is the primary catalyst. Israel lays claim to its territory based on Biblical history and religion.

How can you say war is not caused by religion? History proves it time and time again.

religion has been the fundamental motivator for war throughout history? many wars have been based on religion, but i don't it's a fundamental motivator.

punic wars were motivated by religion? were the Hundred Years War? American Civil War? WW1? WW2? Korean War? Spanish-American War? the War of the Roses? oh yeah, they were motivated by religion

religion = division, as politics = division, as ethnicity = division, as stating your own opinions = division, as separation of classes = division, etc...

mankind+greed = war
mankind+difference in ideology = war
mankind+faulty intelligence = war

there are many grounds and motivators of war. religion may be one, but it's not the fundamental.

 

[terryoh]

have you ever wondered why would god need to sacrifice himself to himself to correct the rule he made in the first place???

you're saying the crucifixion was done to correct the rule that God made in the first place? hmmm...

i say Jesus was sacrificed, because God gave us the free will to turn out backs on Him, and we did it with great precision and efficiency. Jesus was sacrificed to bring us back. to some, it worked. for others, it didn't. with free will, you'll always have the "yes" people and you'll always have the "no" people.

no he didnt,
if god created everything then why did he create atheists?

God didn't explicitly go out and state: "Ok, today, I'm going to create atheists". atheism is a natural rejection of the existence of God. that came with us humans having the free will, conscience, logic, and critical thinking given to us by God.

He gave us the free will to choose: choose Him or don't choose Him. end of story. what's all the fuss about? if you don't want to believe in God/Jesus, then don't.

 

[terryoh]

If God has the audacity to expect humans to follow his rules (whatever they are) but makes contradictory and confusing statements regarding these rules and never even bothers to make his presence known to all people (or at least a large number of them) in order to clarify things, can you blame people for being a little annoyed?

If you read Genesis, God was known to all people, or at least the ancestors. Adam, Even, Cain, Abel (murdered), Seth, etc... Noah, Ham, Shem, Japeth, etc... all the original people knew of the existence of God. over time, we just gradually forget.

and if His presence isn't known to all people, it is the fault of Christians like myself of not making it known to everyone. we should push for more missions.

Oh, what's that you say? Ah, yes! The BIBLE tells us so!
So God can appear thousands of years ago to people in a book, but in his greatness and wisdom doesn't need to bother with reappearing in our present time to reassure us? And whether we go to heaven or hell for eternity hinges on whether we believe or put our trust in accounts that are several millenia in age.

What an awesome God!

God is already with us. since you haven't read the New Testament, you wouldn't know about this at all. the Holy Spirit, who Jesus Christ promised to send to us, is here with us. sounds like religious babble, but i'm just stating this to refute your point of God not being with us.

meh, we put a lot of faith in stuff that are a couple of millenia old. the Hippocratic Oath, the ideals of democracy (laid down by the Greeks), etc... . don't put trust in anything that's a few millenia old

 

[terryoh]

Simple, maybe. Does it make any sense? Not really.

Your response doesn't answer my question about determining which word of God is THE word of God.

that's where faith and our free will to choose comes in. if you think the Quran is the word of God, believe in that. if you think the Bible is the word of God, then believe in that. if you think there is no God, then don't believe in God. it's all about our right and freedom to choose, given to us by...*drum-roll*...God!

The only thing you're saying is that they may accept one book or religion over the other, and they are justified or condemned if it is right or wrong.
WHAT??? How is THAT an accurate system for determining the truth of one religion over another? Simply choose a book, and believe it is the word of God, and one day you'll either live in paradise, or burn in hell.

You MAY be violating the law if you do such-and-such action, but proponents will assure that it is perfectly legal, while opponents say the exact opposite. Just commit the act, and if you're punished for it, then you'll know for certain it was against the law. Of course, by that time it'll be too late.

Simple, but stupid.

you're getting all jumbled up trying to find the truth. the fact is, we don't know, which is why religion is FAITH-BASED. there may never be any truth to it all. we don't know. that's why we take a leap of faith, follow a religion, and hope that what we chose was right. and if we chose wrong, we made a mistake. that's something you have to live with for eternity.

it's no different from your everyday life. let's say you apply to 3 jobs. you get all 3 jobs, but can only choose one. you hope that the one you choose will be the most satisfying, most financially rewarding, most educational, most fun-filled job. if it's not, oh well...you made the wrong choice. end of story. no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[terryoh]

But Adstar is probably a believer in predestination, so if you were destined to be saved, God would lead you to make the right choice, while the unlucky ones will be sent a "strong delusion" so that they may NOT believe.

Free will, at God's discretion.

partly correct. God will only lead you to make the right choice if you let Him. it may be a tough concept for a non-christian to grasp. we have an all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipotent God who has given us the free will to do what we want. although we have the free will, He knows what we're going to do. you may be thinking, "that's not free will then". of course it's free will. God isn't MAKING us do anything. He just knows what we're going to do, what we're going to say, and how we're going to act.

the so-called "unlucky ones" aren't blocked from God, nor has God done anything to them to ensure that they go to hell. once again, the "unlucky ones" have free will to do whatever they please. if that means not accepting religion, ok that's cool. they made their choice and it's something God knows and respects (although He would want it differently).

if atheists don't want to accept religion, then don't blame the Christians for it. don't blame anyone in fact. just move along and don't care about Christians. just ignore them. simple as that.