Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[iceaura]

We're talking about financial risk so your statement is ridiculous of course.

The average lower level employee takes much bigger financial risks than the executives take, even - let alone the stockholders, who clearly are risking only money they can afford to lose. An average car accident on the way to work, for example, is not that big a risk for the executive and shareholding class. They just call their insurance company and a cab or Uber.

To be able to describe one's risk as "financial" only - without significant repercussions on one's life otherwise - is a happy state of affairs available to only a fraction of the citizens of the US.

They take far less risk. If they do their jobs competently, they usually keep them. C-suite executives are canned if they don't deliver - because the BOD wants to see results

How does that translate into the obvious falsehood of less risk?

The risk of dismissal is pretty trivial for an upper level exec - at least, one who has been as responsible with debt and so forth as the average poor person is forced to be. There is very little hardship involved. And that's very nearly the only job-related risk they face.

Show me the upper level exec who had to live in their car or their mother's spare bedroom because they got fired for non-performance - or insubordination, or speaking in favor of a union, or flunking a piss test for THC, or sheer whim.
Show me the upper level exec who got sick because their sleep schedule was frequently jacked around on less than a day's notice, or had their child care bills doubled by continual rescheduling on short notice and couldn't buy food for two weeks.
Show me the upper level exec who had their official working hours restricted just enough so that they did not qualify for health insurance - simultaneously reducing their income enough so that they could not afford to buy their own.

And shareholders? Piffle. The worst risk they face is losing money they didn't need.

The burden of this plague is falling on the lower class jobholder, while the profits and benefits are enjoyed by the wealthy.

 

[Seattle]

The average lower level employee takes much bigger financial risks than the executives take, even - let alone the stockholders, who clearly are risking only money they can afford to lose. An average car accident on the way to work, for example, is not that big a risk for the executive and shareholding class. They just call their insurance company and a cab or Uber.

To be able to describe one's risk as "financial" only - without significant repercussions on one's life otherwise - is a happy state of affairs available to only a fraction of the citizens of the US.

How does a "worker" handle an auto accident on the way to work if not to call their insurance company?

Shareholder equity = money they don't need? What world are you living in?

Someone invests in the stock market for their working life and depends on that income for their retirement years and to you that is money they don't need?

Regarding this virus, the benefits and profits go to the wealthy? What profit and benefits are coming from this virus?

Doctors, healthcare workers and cashiers (to name a few) are more at risk than many others. That's just how it is for this particular "rare" event. You are using this event to draw conclusions for fit your pre-existing worldview.

Your worldview seems to be solely that of a union organizer. Companies and jobs just magically popup, no risk required? The risk is for the average worker who (apparently) has no money, can't handle an auto accident on the way to work and those who create businesses do so with no risk?

People who have any assets basically have money that they don't need? The true value in our system are those living in mom's spare bedroom because the system is so unfair?

Good luck in life.

 

[Quantum Quack]

How does a "worker" handle an auto accident on the way to work if not to call their insurance company?

Shareholder equity = money they don't need? What world are you living in?

Someone invests in the stock market for their working life and depends on that income for their retirement years and to you that is money they don't need?

Regarding this virus, the benefits and profits go to the wealthy? What profit and benefits are coming from this virus?

Doctors, healthcare workers and cashiers (to name a few) are more at risk than many others. That's just how it is for this particular "rare" event. You are using this event to draw conclusions for fit your pre-existing worldview.

Your worldview seems to be solely that of a union organizer. Companies and jobs just magically popup, no risk required? The risk is for the average worker who (apparently) has no money, can't handle an auto accident on the way to work and those who create businesses do so with no risk?

People who have any assets basically have money that they don't need? The true value in our system are those living in mom's spare bedroom because the system is so unfair?

Good luck in life.

I think what ice is trying to say is that the risk is proportional to how close the employee is to the bead line...

 

[iceaura]

How does a "worker" handle an auto accident on the way to work if not to call their insurance company?

Trolls really are incapable of reading with comprehension - it's not just a pretense to abet their miserable attempts at snark.
This one doesn't understand the difference between liability and full coverage car insurance, high and low deductibles, or being able to afford a cab at 8AM and having to cadge a ride from a friend at 3AM,
let alone the difference between a job that docks your pay a half hour (and can fire you) for being ten minutes late and one that pays a salary and comes with "personal days" for emergencies.

Your worldview seems to be solely that of a union organizer.

We need the entertainment, you need the personal attack angle to post anything, it all works after a fashion - especially when one considers that you have never worked a union job or accurately paraphrased a post of mine, but somehow believe you know how union organizers think, you know how I think, and "union organizer" is an insult.

You might want to sort out the inconsistencies, though - union organizers and those posting from their Mom's basement spare bedroom (basement was one of your earlier attempts) are not the same people. You'd be a bit better off (a bit less stupid looking) if you divided the mutually contradictory personal insults into separate posts, with a day or so between them (24 hours is enough time for the Bandarlog to forget what you posted and hold your hand in support).

The risk is for the average worker who (apparently) has no money, can't handle an auto accident on the way to work and those who create businesses do so with no risk?

? Reading comprehension problems. (And the regular thinking problems - the people who create businesses tend to come from lower down in the class hierarchy than upper level execs).

People who have any assets basically have money that they don't need? The true value in our system are those living in mom's spare bedroom because the system is so unfair?

Do you ever have a silly bigotry of your own? Stereotypes - however idiotically misfit - need some room to breathe. One after another like that muddles the point, if any.

The standard advice for anyone looking to buy stocks is that they should not use any money they might need (reasonable odds) within the next five years. You have heard of that rule of thumb, one hopes? In the case of the lower two thirds or so of the US economy, there normally is no such money - so they should not buy stocks. And they don't, by and large. Most stocks are owned by wealthy people. https://money.com/stock-ownership-10-percent-richest/ https://awealthofcommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Capture1-9-1024x667.png

Companies and jobs just magically popup, no risk required?

Trolls are not the brightest bulbs on the tree, one must make allowances - but there's not much excuse for shit like that.
- - - -

Regarding this virus, the benefits and profits go to the wealthy? What profit and benefits are coming from this virus?

Imagine living in the US and not knowing the answer to that question.

For starters, the obvious: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/health/unitedhealth-profit-coronavirus.html

UnitedHealth reported earnings from operations increased by 3 percent, to $5 billion, for the first quarter of 2020, compared with the same three months of 2019, on revenue of $64 billion.

A bit less obvious, we have the usual: Some of the prices for necessary safety gear are up by a factor of ten. Companies that make the stuff are refusing to deliver on contracts negotiated before the plague hit, and instead selling goods and services at auction to the high bidders in a life and death situation. Trump himself - through his family-run shells and hides - has invested in PPE and ventilator manufacturers at the same time as he has (by chance or design is unknown) orchestrated a shortage of masks and ventilators and consequent price gouging. He even confiscates safety equipment ordered by States (https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200421-3yz7dks53fbl7jlrjhuq2xokyu-story.html) (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03...ective-equipment-coronavirus-isnt-only-rival/) - thereby driving the prices up in the capitalist market he refuses to overrule or regulate, to his profit.

And that's just him, once again breaking his oath of office by violating the Constitution he swore to uphold: there are a lot of fortunes being made from this otherwise inexplicable mess. It's not as bizarrely flagrant as the war contracting hogtrough under Cheney's supervision, not as directly treasonous and socially destructive as the Iran Contra missile and cocaine deals under Reagan's dignified horrorshow of racism and incompetence, but it has a few years to run yet. Give it time.

 

[river]

Anyway in the 1918 pandemic it was the young that were killed more , far more than the older generation , because the their immune system was stronger , hence it left debris ( cell die off ) which could not be cleared out by the body .

Hence the lungs became stiffer , less flexible . Hence the ability to pump oxygen into the blood became less and less .

 

[billvon]

The risk of dismissal is pretty trivial for an upper level exec - at least, one who has been as responsible with debt and so forth as the average poor person is forced to be. There is very little hardship involved.

As is the risk of dismissal for a lower level employee who has been as responsible with debt, savings and so forth.

Show me the upper level exec who had to live in their car or their mother's spare bedroom because they got fired for non-performance - or insubordination, or speaking in favor of a union, or flunking a piss test for THC, or sheer whim.

Adam Smith, former CFO, was fired from his job after a video of him berating a Chick-Fil-A employee went viral. He is now penniless, and has lost his home. (And he has a family.)

Show me the upper level exec who got sick because their sleep schedule was frequently jacked around on less than a day's notice

Irwin Jacobs, former CEO of Qualcomm. Brandon Tseng, COO of Shield.

And shareholders? Piffle. The worst risk they face is losing money they didn't need.

What an elitist snob you are. All those families with 401k's don't need their money? Shame on you for looking down your nose at those that have less than you.

 

[river]

Agreed billvon to your post # 1466

Especially to your last statement .

But further , Universal Health Care for all , in the US , hopefully becomes a reality .

 

[river]

Further in the 1918 pandemic the actual cause of the pneumonia was from bacteria , that took advantage of the virus weakening the immune response .

So it wasn't the virus that caused pneumonia but bacteria .

I wonder if the same thing is happening in Covid-19 . Virus weakens the immune system so that a bacteria that causes pneumonia can invade the lungs .

 

[Seattle]

Trolls really are incapable of reading with comprehension - it's not just a pretense to abet their miserable attempts at snark.
This one doesn't understand the difference between liability and full coverage car insurance, high and low deductibles, or being able to afford a cab at 8AM and having to cadge a ride from a friend at 3AM,
let alone the difference between a job that docks your pay a half hour (and can fire you) for being ten minutes late and one that pays a salary and comes with "personal days" for emergencies.

We need the entertainment, you need the personal attack angle to post anything, it all works after a fashion - especially when one considers that you have never worked a union job or accurately paraphrased a post of mine, but somehow believe you know how union organizers think, you know how I think, and "union organizer" is an insult.

You might want to sort out the inconsistencies, though - union organizers and those posting from their Mom's basement spare bedroom (basement was one of your earlier attempts) are not the same people. You'd be a bit better off (a bit less stupid looking) if you divided the mutually contradictory personal insults into separate posts, with a day or so between them (24 hours is enough time for the Bandarlog to forget what you posted and hold your hand in support).
? Reading comprehension problems. (And the regular thinking problems - the people who create businesses tend to come from lower down in the class hierarchy than upper level execs).

Do you ever have a silly bigotry of your own? Stereotypes - however idiotically misfit - need some room to breathe. One after another like that muddles the point, if any.

The standard advice for anyone looking to buy stocks is that they should not use any money they might need (reasonable odds) within the next five years. You have heard of that rule of thumb, one hopes? In the case of the lower two thirds or so of the US economy, there normally is no such money - so they should not buy stocks. And they don't, by and large. Most stocks are owned by wealthy people. https://money.com/stock-ownership-10-percent-richest/ https://awealthofcommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Capture1-9-1024x667.png

Trolls are not the brightest bulbs on the tree, one must make allowances - but there's not much excuse for shit like that.
- - - -

Imagine living in the US and not knowing the answer to that question.

For starters, the obvious: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/health/unitedhealth-profit-coronavirus.html
A bit less obvious, we have the usual: Some of the prices for necessary safety gear are up by a factor of ten. Companies that make the stuff are refusing to deliver on contracts negotiated before the plague hit, and instead selling goods and services at auction to the high bidders in a life and death situation. Trump himself - through his family-run shells and hides - has invested in PPE and ventilator manufacturers at the same time as he has (by chance or design is unknown) orchestrated a shortage of masks and ventilators and consequent price gouging. He even confiscates safety equipment ordered by States (https://www.nydailynews.com/coronav...0200421-3yz7dks53fbl7jlrjhuq2xokyu-story.html) (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03...ective-equipment-coronavirus-isnt-only-rival/) - thereby driving the prices up in the capitalist market he refuses to overrule or regulate, to his profit.

And that's just him, once again breaking his oath of office by violating the Constitution he swore to uphold: there are a lot of fortunes being made from this otherwise inexplicable mess. It's not as bizarrely flagrant as the war contracting hogtrough under Cheney's supervision, not as directly treasonous and socially destructive as the Iran Contra missile and cocaine deals under Reagan's dignified horrorshow of racism and incompetence, but it has a few years to run yet. Give it time.

Union organizer isn't a pejorative as in your continued use of "troll" and "not the brightest bulb". It is a very narrow viewpoint when the only focus of concern is the union worker who is paying his/her salary.

Every argument seems to feature those who have nothing and who can do nothing for themselves. That's not a balanced perspective.

Then there's the nonsense about not needing money vs investing on a time horizon longer than a few years. That's the responsible thing for anyone to do.

Companies exist because someone took a time horizon longer than a few years and because someone took some financial risks.

Viewpoint of an union organizer fits your viewpoint nicely. Why deny it?

 

[exchemist]

The average lower level employee takes much bigger financial risks than the executives take, even - let alone the stockholders, who clearly are risking only money they can afford to lose. An average car accident on the way to work, for example, is not that big a risk for the executive and shareholding class. They just call their insurance company and a cab or Uber.

To be able to describe one's risk as "financial" only - without significant repercussions on one's life otherwise - is a happy state of affairs available to only a fraction of the citizens of the US.

How does that translate into the obvious falsehood of less risk?

The risk of dismissal is pretty trivial for an upper level exec - at least, one who has been as responsible with debt and so forth as the average poor person is forced to be. There is very little hardship involved. And that's very nearly the only job-related risk they face.

Show me the upper level exec who had to live in their car or their mother's spare bedroom because they got fired for non-performance - or insubordination, or speaking in favor of a union, or flunking a piss test for THC, or sheer whim.
Show me the upper level exec who got sick because their sleep schedule was frequently jacked around on less than a day's notice, or had their child care bills doubled by continual rescheduling on short notice and couldn't buy food for two weeks.
Show me the upper level exec who had their official working hours restricted just enough so that they did not qualify for health insurance - simultaneously reducing their income enough so that they could not afford to buy their own.

And shareholders? Piffle. The worst risk they face is losing money they didn't need.

The burden of this plague is falling on the lower class jobholder, while the profits and benefits are enjoyed by the wealthy.

Anyone with a pension plan is a shareholder.

 

[iceaura]

As is the risk of dismissal for a lower level employee who has been as responsible with debt, savings and so forth.

Thereby highlighting the comparatively far more serious risks accepted by the lower level employee. Dismissal injures them far more than it injures the upper level exec. Look at the treatment they will tolerate to keep their job(s).

Irwin Jacobs, former CEO of Qualcomm. Brandon Tseng, COO of Shield.

? They set their own hours, of course. Nobody called them on Friday nights to tell them when to report on Saturday and how many hours they would be permitted to work, or docked their stock options for showing up ten minutes late.
That's kind of obvious. Are you ok? You seem confused by this entire issue.

What an elitist snob you are. All those families with 401k's don't need their money?

Obviously. They are doing without it - that's how a 401k is set up, legally. I thought you knew that.

And "all those" employees are a small fringe of stockholders - see links, above. This one is the easiest for rightwingers to handle - it's a picture: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Capture1-9-1024x667.png

Meanwhile, you and Seattle need to get your little junior high playground stories straight - this guy organizing unions in his mother's spare bedroom: apparently he thinks like a union organizer while being an elitist snob, and is looking down his nose at somebody while derogating those above him: who? Is it the people with 401k investments who need the money, those without who need the money, those with who don't need the money, or those without who don't need the money?

Maybe it's more than one girl, more than one nose - ever thought of that? It would fit everything you know, which is less than nothing (believed error is negative knowledge).

Shame on you for looking down your nose at those that have less than you.

Those who - please. Grammatically correct, and funnier sounding.
The more bandwidth you suckers devote to the topic of my personal circumstances, the more bandwidth you have devoted toward parading your ignorance in public. I have already admitted to setting that trap deliberately, for my own amusement in watching the clown car of wingnut stereotypes erupt from its apparently bottomless supply, but in all seriousness:
You have your hands full with the contents of my posts, clearly - why not stick to them? At least you would have a fair chance of guessing correctly what they are , after a few tries - you have access to some information, you can reread, nobody here will see you moving your lips. And you would help keep things thread relevant.
- - - -

I wonder if the same thing is happening in Covid-19 . Virus weakens the immune system so that a bacteria that causes pneumonia can invade the lungs

The docs say that's not what's happening.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I wonder if the same thing is happening in Covid-19 . Virus weakens the immune system so that a bacteria that causes pneumonia can invade the lungs .

If I am not mistaken,
In 1918-19 they didn't have ready access to anti-biotics hence the huge death toll. They do today and can successfully treat bacterial pneumonia.
COVID-19 however promotes viral pneumonia and as such there is no significant treatment available apart from artificial ventilation.

COVID-19 therefore has a greater potential mortality rate than the Spanish flu, because there is no treatment for viral pneumonia.

 

[river]

↑

I wonder if the same thing is happening in Covid-19 . Virus weakens the immune system so that a bacteria that causes pneumonia can invade the lungs

The docs say that's not what's happening.

True

Yet the same result in the lungs as H1N1 . We shall see . H1N1 attacked the young . Covid-19 attacks the elderly , for the most part .

 

[Quantum Quack]

Meanwhile:
Singapore's second wave has seen a sustained Case growth of around 4.9% mostly contained by strong social distancing activities.
====
It seems to me that no lock down = growth rate of about >17%
Lock down = around <>4%
successful lock down = < 1%

 

[Quantum Quack]

Covid-19 attacks the elderly , for the most part .

A common confusion..
Not quite true... the virus kills the elderly more so due to co-morbidity issues.
It attacks every one and is successful in infecting, regardless of age. ( young children may be a possible exception)
Example: Diabetic teenagers are almost as vulnerable as aged.

One key issue is that of aged people living in nursing homes in a closed environment are vulnerable to the homes community transmission.
So fatalities are higher.
(in fact this issue of nursing home etc outbreaks is going to haunt us all for many years to come IMO.)

Also the Spanish flu of 1918 killed mainly young adults during the deadly second wave.

 

[river]

If I am not mistaken,
In 1918-19 they didn't have ready access to anti-biotics hence the huge death toll. They do today and can successfully treat bacterial pneumonia.
COVID-19 however promotes viral pneumonia and as such there is not treatment apart from artificial ventilation.

COVID-19 therefore has a greater potential mortality rate than the Spanish flu, because there is no treatment for viral pneumonia.

QQ , pneumonia still to this day is a very serious condition , despite the antibiotics availible .

The potential for mortality of this virus is certainly greater than H1N1 . Lets hope not .

From what I understand it destroys alveoli .

 

[Quantum Quack]

QQ , pneumonia still to this day is a very serious condition , despite the antibiotics availible .

yes pneumonia is always a serious condition.

The potential for mortality of this virus is certainly greater than H1N1 . Lets hope not .

From what I understand it destroys alveoli .

Yes it seems to eventually kill of the alveoli as the patient's condition vectors towards palliative outcomes.

The important point though is to draw the distinction between Bacterial and Viral pneumonia.
(some COVID patients have to deal with both...apparently)

Another distinction worth considering is that the Flu is considered as airborne (?) where as COVID-19 is considered as aerosol droplets ( contact )

However governments are reacting in some ways that indicate that they are unsure about whether Covid is partially airborne and also droplet...

In other words the COVID virus appears to be borderline between airborne and droplet. ( in some circumstances, ie. Nursing homes, Cruise liners or any closed environment)

 

[river]

A common confusion..
Not quite true... the virus kills the elderly more so due to co-morbidity issues.
It attacks every one and is successful in infecting, regardless of age. ( young children may be a possible exception)
Example: Diabetic teenagers are almost as vulnerable as aged.

One key issue is that of aged people living in nursing homes in a closed environment are vulnerable to the homes community transmission.
So fatalities are higher.
(in fact this issue of nursing home etc outbreaks is going to haunt us all for many years to come IMO.)

Also the Spanish flu of 1918 killed mainly young adults during the deadly second wave.

Because there immune system acted out of control . To your last statement .

The Science of Covid-19 , now and in a few years is going to be very , very interesting . SARS and MERS , were also respiratory viruses . The research done on both , in resent years has helped the research on Covid-19 .

 

[Quantum Quack]

Because there immune system acted out of control . To your last statement .

The Science of Covid-19 , now and in a few years is going to be very , very interesting . SARS and MERS , were also respiratory viruses . The research done on both , in resent years has helped the research on Covid-19 .

In all cases it is directly related to the evolution of the human immune system..

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Because there immune system acted out of control . To your last statement .

The Science of Covid-19 , now and in a few years is going to be very , very interesting . SARS and MERS , were also respiratory viruses . The research done on both , in resent years has helped the research on Covid-19 .

In all cases it is directly related to the evolution of the human immune system..

Agreed

And the evolution of the virus its self . Which worries me more .

In China the research is old school . If I find the source of this research I will post it soon .