Corona Virus 2019-nCoV

[iceaura]

Because unless you shut down all air travel - the two countries are not isolated.

They would not need to shut down all air travel - just the US flights, and US people.

The smart money, looking down the road, sees a distinct likelihood that the US will be quarantined by the countries that do get the virus under control. How else could they defend themselves? It's routine, especially when dealing with substandard health care and incompetent handling of a plague, to isolate particular countries until they get a better grip - the African sources of Ebola threat were isolated like that, for example.

Any US person they actually need could easily be quarantined for two weeks on arrival, and tested for infection before release into Australian society.

Yeah, that will last about a week. Then some important Australian will insist on coming back with his American family and that will all go right out the window.

I'll take that bet.
It's not impossible to have representative government that acts in the interest of its ordinary citizen - I've seen it. The US used to have something like that, and it was improving.

If you want to chat with strangers it's going to depend on whether they want to chat with stranger at this time. I has nothing to go with any grand government plan.

They prefer a clueless, planless, incompetent government at all times of crisis except the ones directly affecting their property. Nobody really knows why.

I saw a guy like that a few weeks ago in a chemotherapy infusion center, after the governor of Minnesota gave notice that he was going to shut down parts of the State and forbid gatherings of people - he also recommended that people wear facemasks in public, but could not require it because lots of people could not obtain such masks.

He was sitting in a chair in a room with at least a dozen immune-compromised people and a like number of nurses, infusion aids, and other vulnerable medical personnel, all masked except him, deliberately and proudly (no kidding) coughing sort of half into his elbow as he waited for one of those infusion aids to deliver the treatment that was saving his life. And they did, as far as I know - they actually cared for him, just as they would a decent human being.

Maybe we'll get lucky, and the folks who think like that will just hang out with each other. We could do with fewer of them, to be blunt. If they promise to avoid me and my family and neighborhood, I might even foot the bill for the keg party. Free beer for the short bus.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Most people know that vaccinations are needed to enter various nations:

Do I Need Vaccines for United States?
Yes, some vaccines are recommended or required for United States. The CDC and WHO recommend the following vaccinations for United States: hepatitis A, hepatitis B, rabies, meningitis, polio, measles, mumps and rubella (MMR), Tdap (tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis), chickenpox, shingles, pneumonia and influenza.

Just add COVID-19 to the list...​

 

[sculptor]

Do you ever get the feeling that the who is a front organization of the pharmaceutical industry?

 

[exchemist]

Do you ever get the feeling that the who is a front organization of the pharmaceutical industry?

No.

But I do get the feeling that some people on the political right in the USA are interested in trashing the WHO. For some reason......

 

[parmalee]

For artists - I will definitely agree with you there. Our arts endowments, while similar in amount to other countries (like the UK) are much smaller than other countries when it comes to funding compared to population.

But, again, that was just an example. It's in no way controversial to state that the U.S. has long neglected the public, in favor of the private sector. It's also not controversial to state that Americans tend to dismiss anything and everything that does not have an immediate and readily apparent use or value--universities underfund, or shutter entirely, departments that are not, well, basically, directly STEMS related. Secondary schools--especially public ones that are underfunded already--do pretty much the same.

However, for opportunities for creating new companies (new technologies, new business models, new industries) there is far more venture capital available here than anywhere else in the world. That's why so many new companies start here. In 2016, 66 billion dollars of venture capital went into startups in the US. By comparison, all of Europe had 4.7 billion invested.

Venture capital, and the companies that may or may not thrive as a consequence, only impact--or employ--a certain percentage of people. And that venture capital is only going to be available for those whose ideas are apt to, in turn, reap considerable financial gains.

And as far as creating "employment opportunities"--positions at the top, or in R&D are one thing, but who the hell actually wants to work for Amazon or Uber?

(Then, as far as "excellence" goes, we're getting into matters of subjective evaluation. There's apt to be general consensus around, say, matters of medical innovation, but other things? Not so much. For instance, I would pay anyone and everyone involved with the making of those stupid Avengers movies a billion dollars to drop "film" making altogether, and to just go off and make a stupid video game or something.

That said, some friends of mine developed what turned out to be one of the most popular games of the 'aughts. I don't care much for video games generally, but I find this one to be obscenely idiotic--it's basically an upgrade of that Simon electronic game from the 70's with bling.)

(Edit: You know, that Simon game with the four colored buttons in which you mimic the sequence--basically, that thing that pretty much anyone with even the slightest background in electronics and programming can produce a CMOS version, a discrete version, or software version of in about 15 minutes! Everything time I think about that game--the video game, not the basic concept--I get annoyed.

OK. In fairness, it'd probably take me a bit longer than 15 minutes to work up a discrete version.)

 

[billvon]

But, again, that was just an example. It's in no way controversial to state that the U.S. has long neglected the public, in favor of the private sector. It's also not controversial to state that Americans tend to dismiss anything and everything that does not have an immediate and readily apparent use or value--universities underfund, or shutter entirely, departments that are not, well, basically, directly STEMS related. Secondary schools--especially public ones that are underfunded already--do pretty much the same.

Agreed there.

Venture capital, and the companies that may or may not thrive as a consequence, only impact--or employ--a certain percentage of people.

Of course. Just as arts endowments only impact a certain (and much smaller) percentage of people.

And that venture capital is only going to be available for those whose ideas are apt to, in turn, reap considerable financial gains.

Yes, that's the impetus in any capitalist economy.

And as far as creating "employment opportunities"--positions at the top, or in R&D are one thing, but who the hell actually wants to work for Amazon or Uber?

About a million people, apparently.

(Then, as far as "excellence" goes, we're getting into matters of subjective evaluation. There's apt to be general consensus around, say, matters of medical innovation, but other things? Not so much. For instance, I would pay anyone and everyone involved with the making of those stupid Avengers movies a billion dollars to drop "film" making altogether, and to just go off and make a stupid video game or something.

Of course. And most Americans would consider Rauschenberg's work as worthless and certainly not an example of excellence. "It's so . . . messy. My kid could do that!"

 

[billvon]

It just show us all how far behind the ball you are...All international travel has been banned outward and inward bound.

I love it!

"ALL TRAVEL HAS BEEN BANNED!"
"All travel?"
"Well . . . except for Australians. But that's it! No one else!"
"So no family members of Australians?"
"Well, OK, immediate family members too."
"How about non-citizen residents?"
"OK FINE! Residents too."
"And air crews?"
"Well of course we have to let the crews in. I mean duh. They can't sleep on the plane!"
"And you have ground crews working on that foreign plane, right?"
"OK yes. But they are very careful. But other than Australian citizens, their families, residents and air crews ALL TRAVEL HAS BEEN BANNED!"
"How about diplomats?"
"Jeez! OK yes diplomats can still travel!"

At the moment there is no air travel other than repatriation flights with strict quarantine when they land.

Let's see how strict it is. From the Australian government website:

Minors just voluntarily self-isolate with their parents, like is happening here. No government oversight.
Aircrews voluntarily self-isolate in hotels. They can fly domestically if they want.
Diplomats don't have to do anything. Australia recommends they self-isolate.
Cruise ship crews don't have to quarantine; only a voluntary self-isolation. They can travel domestically if they want.

Doesn't seem that strict to me.

Yeah, that will last about a week. Then some important Australian will insist on coming back with his American family and that will all go right out the window.

nah! just testing and isolation for 14 days minimum....

Nope! Like the Australian government said, diplomats don't have to do anything. All there is is a recommendation they self-isolate. No mandatory testing, no mandatory isolation.

 

[Seattle]

I love it!

"ALL TRAVEL HAS BEEN BANNED!"
"All travel?"
"Well . . . except for Australians. But that's it! No one else!"
"So no family members of Australians?"
"Well, OK, immediate family members too."
"How about non-citizen residents?"
"OK FINE! Residents too."
"And air crews?"
"Well of course we have to let the crews in. I mean duh. They can't sleep on the plane!"
"And you have ground crews working on that foreign plane, right?"
"OK yes. But they are very careful. But other than Australian citizens, their families, residents and air crews ALL TRAVEL HAS BEEN BANNED!"
"How about diplomats?"
"Jeez! OK yes diplomats can still travel!"



Let's see how strict it is. From the Australian government website:

Minors just voluntarily self-isolate with their parents, like is happening here. No government oversight.
Aircrews voluntarily self-isolate in hotels. They can fly domestically if they want.
Diplomats don't have to do anything. Australia recommends they self-isolate.
Cruise ship crews don't have to quarantine; only a voluntary self-isolation. They can travel domestically if they want.

Doesn't seem that strict to me.

Nope! Like the Australian government said, diplomats don't have to do anything. All there is is a recommendation they self-isolate. No mandatory testing, no mandatory isolation.

The important point is that not Americans can go to Australia, except for maybe the Gold Coast and Sydney of course but absolutely no one can go to Ayers Rock and that's final!

Don't ask me again (or I might change my mind).

 

[wegs]

Watching the briefing today and on the screen, it reads:

TRUMP: WHO GAVE FALSE INFORMATION

TRUMP:WHO SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

Lmao! He’s talking about “the WHO” ...oh, what a bad time to be using an acronym.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I love it!

"ALL TRAVEL HAS BEEN BANNED!"
"All travel?"
"Well . . . except for Australians. But that's it! No one else!"
"So no family members of Australians?"
"Well, OK, immediate family members too."
"How about non-citizen residents?"
"OK FINE! Residents too."
"And air crews?"
"Well of course we have to let the crews in. I mean duh. They can't sleep on the plane!"
"And you have ground crews working on that foreign plane, right?"
"OK yes. But they are very careful. But other than Australian citizens, their families, residents and air crews ALL TRAVEL HAS BEEN BANNED!"
"How about diplomats?"
"Jeez! OK yes diplomats can still travel!"



Let's see how strict it is. From the Australian government website:

Minors just voluntarily self-isolate with their parents, like is happening here. No government oversight.
Aircrews voluntarily self-isolate in hotels. They can fly domestically if they want.
Diplomats don't have to do anything. Australia recommends they self-isolate.
Cruise ship crews don't have to quarantine; only a voluntary self-isolation. They can travel domestically if they want.

Doesn't seem that strict to me.

Nope! Like the Australian government said, diplomats don't have to do anything. All there is is a recommendation they self-isolate. No mandatory testing, no mandatory isolation.

You simply don't get it do you...??

14/04/2020
Tourism minister warns Aussies not to book overseas holidays because international travel is unlikely to resume until at least 2021

• Australians are unlikely to be allowed to fly overseas until at least January 2021
• The federal tourism minister warned people not to book foreign holidays
• Instead, he said state border are likely to be reopened in the coming months
• He encouraged Australians to start 'dreaming' about their perfect staycation
• It could prove a much-needed boost to the embattled local tourism industry
• Currently, Australians returning from overseas are required to isolate for 14 days

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-international-travel-unlikely-resume.html
That's just one quick source...

Why is it so hard to understand that our international borders are closed?
The current anticipation is that possibly 2021 may see a measured re-opening...

No one will be allowed to enter Australia with out a COVID vaccination and as you know, there is no vaccination available so there for , just because you simply can't seem to understand basic logic.... no one can enter Australia.

The governments are currently attempting to work out ( solve, get into the details, sort out etc) how to reopen international travel under strict quarantine guidelines. ( A guideline is more like a law, which is a legal requirement, which is enforceable which is)

Unfortunately there is not test for American stupidity... but we are working on it...

 

[Seattle]

But we really want to come to Australia..please, please, please...

No flying for you but that's probably for the best. Just take a staycation down at the local pub with your mates.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Cruise ship crews don't have to quarantine; only a voluntary self-isolation. They can travel domestically if they want.

A large number of our cases stems from a cruise ship and NSW government underestimating the situation.
Ruby Princess Cruise liner debacle...8 deaths, 600 confirmed cases... major criminal investigation under way...
We learned our lesson and it cost 8 lives ( so far) to do it...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04...-into-ruby-princess-will-take-months/12146398

 

[billvon]

You simply don't get it do you...??

Ah, so the Australian government is lying? Good to know!

 

[Quantum Quack]

But we really want to come to Australia..please, please, please...

No flying for you but that's probably for the best. Just take a staycation down at the local pub with your mates.

certainly the conversation would be more intelligent than what you are providing...
"Have a beer mate"..
"Yeah mate"
"Have another beer mate?"
"Yeah mate"
lol

 

[Quantum Quack]

Russian media were reporting that the global case load exceeded 2 million two days ago
currently:
1,992,189 CC
126,066 CFR
Worldometer

You may recall I mentioned a data science and quoted her blog...

10 Reasons to Doubt the Covid-19 Data

If you’re like me, you’ve been watching the daily data on the coronavirus pandemic, seeking glimmers of hope in the trajectories: the infected, the hospitalized, the intubated, the dead.

If only there were more understanding to be had. The more I look at the numbers, the more I see their flaws. Here are my top 10.

1. The number of infected is close to meaningless. Only people who get tested can be counted, and there still aren’t enough tests — not even close, and not in any country save perhaps Iceland. The best we can do is estimate how many people are sick by guessing what percentage of the infected can obtain a test. In the U.S., for example, anecdotal evidence suggests that people need to be ill enough to be hospitalized. About 10% of cases merit hospitalization, so the actual number of infected might be about ten times larger than what’s reported.

2. The tests aren’t accurate and the inaccuracies aren't symmetric. In particular, they produce many more false negatives than false positives — meaning they tend to indicate that people are OK when they’re actually sick. Some research suggests that the false negative rate could exceed 30%. This means that estimates of the true number of infections should be once again inflated.

3. The number of tests doesn’t equal the number of people tested. Because the tests are so inaccurate, some people get tested twice to be more sure of the results. This means that the share of the population tested compared to the number of people found to be infected paints a rosier picture than reality, offering yet another reason to believe that the actual number of infected is higher.


4. The numbers aren’t in sync. People sometimes die weeks after being hospitalized, and they get hospitalized a week or more after testing positive for the virus. So we shouldn’t expect the “number of deaths” curve to flatten until pretty long after the “number of cases” curve does. The bright side of this lag is that, since it takes longer to recover than to die, the death rate will go down over time.

5. The meaning of hospitalization is changing. Officials have recently presented flattening hospital admissions as a positive sign. But it takes a lot more to get somebody to the hospital these days. Hotlines are jammed, ambulances are scarce, standards for who gets hospitalized have drastically changed, and people are avoiding overwhelmed emergency rooms. So fewer hospitalizations doesn’t necessarily mean that the situation is getting better.

6. Deaths aren’t reported immediately or consistently. Various operational issues, such as paper filing and notifying next of kin, determine when a death actually gets registered. This might help explain why the most deaths tend to get reported on Tuesdays. So don’t get too excited about good news on a weekend — you might be disappointed by the beginning of the week.

7. Deaths outside hospitals aren’t being reported. When people die at home or in nursing facilities, veteran homes, or prisons, they’re not always counted. This is a biggie: When France started reporting fatalities in nursing homes, their death count increased by 40%. Belgium reports nursing home deaths pretty well, and they're finding 40% of deaths occur there.

8. The policy for attributing deaths isn’t consistent. Once somebody is gone, why waste a valuable test? So doctors might not mention Covid-19 as a contributing cause. It’s a judgment call, especially when someone was sick already. This might have a very large effect on the data in certain environments like rehab facilities and nursing homes.

9. Officials may have incentives to hide coronavirus cases. China, Indonesia and Iran have all come under scrutiny for their statistics. “Juking the stats” is not unknown in other contexts in the U.S., either. So don’t assume that officials are above outright manipulation. ​

You can read the 10th reason at it's source
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-04-13/ten-reasons-to-doubt-the-covid-19-data

 

[Seattle]

Ah, so the Australian government is lying? Good to know!

Why is my name on a QQ quote?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Watching the briefing today and on the screen, it reads:

TRUMP: WHO GAVE FALSE INFORMATION

TRUMP:WHO SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

Lmao! He’s talking about “the WHO” ...oh, what a bad time to be using an acronym.

Perhaps the American people should with hold funding to the White House for the same reasons the Administration wish to withhold funding of the WHO?

 

[parmalee]

Watching the briefing today and on the screen, it reads:

TRUMP: WHO GAVE FALSE INFORMATION

TRUMP:WHO SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

Possibly intentional double entendre. Unless it was Fox. They do stupid shit like that all the time. Nicaragua and Honduras were once described onscreen as "Mexican countries."

Given that Trump has now unambiguously declared himself a tyrant, with "total authority," I am now revising my "speculation" about "taking (him) out." It is now a fairly straightforward declaration. Depending upon one's philosophical inclinations, it is either one's right or one's duty to resist tyranny--by force, if necessary. The most direct enunciation of that is found within the French Constitution (1793), which is non-applicable, I suppose; but, it's comparably unambiguous in the Declaration of Independence, so...

There's strategic and tactical concerns, of course, but... it is what it is.

 

[Seattle]

certainly the conversation would be more intelligent than what you are providing...
"Have a beer mate"..
"Yeah mate"
"Have another beer mate?"
"Yeah mate"
lol

That's true. You Aussi's are known for your intelligence, now where did I leave my sunnies?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why is my name on a QQ quote?

lol... because Billvon is typically confused in his enthusiastic desire to destroy sciforums just like yours.