Congratulations America - you got the president you deserve

exchemist said:
Who pays for the flights? They probably cannot do so themselves in many instances. And how do you know what country each of them came from, if they have no ID? And then there are the simple logistics of moving vast numbers of people. Here is one estimate of the cost: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/mass-deportation
I quote the most relevant section:

In total, we find that the cost of a one-time mass deportation operation aimed at both those populations—an estimated total of is at least $315 billion. We wish to emphasize that this figure is a highly conservative estimate. It does not take into account the long-term costs of a sustained mass deportation operation or the incalculable additional costs necessary to acquire the institutional capacity to remove over 13 million people in a short period of time—incalculable because there is simply no reality in which such a singular operation is possible. For one thing, there would be no way to accomplish this mission without mass detention as an interim step.

If you don't get agreement from the presumed country of origin that an undocumented person is one of their citizens, the country will not accept to have the person just dumped on them. Establishing citizenship and/or identity will often need individual interviews at the relevant embassy before a person is deported. We are talking of several million people here, comprising almost 5% of the entire US workforce: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...out-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/.

Beware of politicians promising easy, simple solutions to complicated issues. They are usually not well thought out and don't work as advertised.
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1. Place extra guards at every conceivable entry point around the clock for a few weeks to make sure no other illegal aliens enter.

2. Round up all the gang members, gangsters, murderers, rapists, traffickers, mentally insane, etc… Deport them first, either back to their country of origin, or distribute them to all the countries that allowed them to go free.

3.Build and complete the wall. Seal up every tunnel with the high-grade concrete. Beef up security. You could even train genuine asylum seekers, and giving them jobs and security

4. Put pressure on Sanctuary Cities that won’t cooperate with the will of the majority of the American people, by cutting the funding of law enforcement. This will force the zombies who voted for that to wake up and understand that they have been duped, conned, tricked, and bamboozled. This will get them to vote out the maniacs who are causing this situation, eventually flipping the whole country red.

5. After that, assess the situation.
See if the American people want further action, or are willing to accept those who are genuinely seeking asylum, or those who are prepared to become law-abiding citizens giving them the chance to prove if they are going to positively be of benefit to the country.

6. Light up a big fat cigar and admire the sunset
 
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Trek said:
1. Place extra guards at every conceivable entry point around the clock for a few weeks to make sure no other illegal aliens enter.

2. Round up all the gang members, gangsters, murderers, rapists, traffickers, mentally insane, etc… Deport them first, either back to their country of origin, or distribute them to all the countries that allowed them to go free.

3.Build and complete the wall. Seal up every tunnel with the high-grade concrete. Beef up security. You could even train genuine asylum seekers, and giving them jobs and security

4. Put pressure on Sanctuary Cities that won’t cooperate with the will of the majority of the American people, by cutting the funding of law enforcement. This will force the zombies who voted for that to wake up and understand that they have been duped, conned, tricked, and bamboozled. This will get them to vote out the maniacs who are causing this situation, eventually flipping the whole country red.

5. After that, assess the situation.
See if the American people want further action, or are willing to accept those who are genuinely seeking asylum, or those who are prepared to become law-abiding citizens giving them the chance to prove if they are going to positively be of benefit to the country.

6. Light up a big fat cigar and admire the sunset
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The key problem is acquiring the necessary funding for yata, yata, yata. In the end, since he need merely demonstrate that he's securing the border better than Biden, Trump's policies may simply roll the efficacy back to that of former administrations. Some of which actually topped Trump's 1st term efforts, in certain areas.

  • Mass detention and returning migrants to Mexico: Donald Trump’s plans on immigration are coming into focus: "During his first term, Trump deported more than 1.5 million people, according to Kathleen Bush-Joseph, a policy analyst at the Migration Policy Institute. But that’s about half the 2.9 million deportations undertaken during Barack Obama’s first term and fewer than the 1.9 million deportations during Obama’s second term. Those figures do not include the millions of people turned away at the border under a Covid-era policy enacted by Trump and used during most of Biden’s term."

    Will Trump bring back the border wall?: "Trump’s team has reportedly revisited strategies for the border wall, possibly integrating advanced surveillance technologies alongside physical barriers. These enhancements aim to address criticism that the wall alone is insufficient to combat modern migration challenges. [...] The financial burden is another concern."
 
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This is feeling like Game of Thrones, when they had the 'Night watch' to protect their wall from the White Walkers. But, the King WW stole dragons and burned down the wall, so walls aren't very effective. Even in fantasy novels/films! :rolleyes:
 
wegs said:
This is feeling like Game of Thrones, when they had the 'Night watch' to protect their wall from the White Walkers.
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Yep.

I live in San Diego about 20 miles from the Tijuana wall. And when we were skydiving at Brown Field, our landing area was 1/3 of a mile from the border. We got to be very good friends with the Border Patrol. Which was a good thing; people were landing in Mexico pretty frequently. The first time it happened to my girlfriend, some little kids came by and showed her how to climb over the wall. They had piled up dirt against it so they could just walk up the ramp and jump over. The Border Patrol was usually there to help us down the other side.

At one point this almost led to an international military incident, so the DZ owner put the fear of God into everyone, and after that almost no one landed there.

Talking to the Border Patrol they thought maybe a hundred people got by them a day. And this was with two walls - a metal wall, then a road they'd patrol, then a chainlink fence with barbed wire. No one got too upset about it because the real threat came from other places. The first was legal entry. It is 100% legal to enter on a student or tourist visa, and it is 100% legal to enter as a refugee and request asylum. Then they overstay (or work) and they become illegal. That's how most illegal aliens enter the US.

The drugs come in through tunnels. They catch a few mules jumping the fence, but by far the most drugs come in through tunnels. They find about 3 tunnels a year here in San Diego, and some are VERY sophisticated, with rail lines, ventilation, power etc. And of course those are only the tunnels they can find. Most remain hidden.

So yeah, more walls won't do much. If you want to make a dent in illegal immigration, you need better surveillance (drones, IR sensors, seismic sensors) more courts and more lawyers to process those refugees and more border patrol. Interestingly a bill providing money for all that was proposed last year, but Trump had his loyalists in the House shoot it down, so he could campaign on how bad the border was.
 
Trek said:
1. Place extra guards at every conceivable entry point around the clock for a few weeks to make sure no other illegal aliens enter.

2. Round up all the gang members, gangsters, murderers, rapists, traffickers, mentally insane, etc… Deport them first, either back to their country of origin, or distribute them to all the countries that allowed them to go free.

3.Build and complete the wall. Seal up every tunnel with the high-grade concrete. Beef up security. You could even train genuine asylum seekers, and giving them jobs and security

4. Put pressure on Sanctuary Cities that won’t cooperate with the will of the majority of the American people, by cutting the funding of law enforcement. This will force the zombies who voted for that to wake up and understand that they have been duped, conned, tricked, and bamboozled. This will get them to vote out the maniacs who are causing this situation, eventually flipping the whole country red.

5. After that, assess the situation.
See if the American people want further action, or are willing to accept those who are genuinely seeking asylum, or those who are prepared to become law-abiding citizens giving them the chance to prove if they are going to positively be of benefit to the country.

6. Light up a big fat cigar and admire the sunset
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None of this addresses the question you posed in post 463, which is what I have been trying to answer. This was: "Why should the illegal-aliens not be deported?"
 
Trek said:
But they are criminals.
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So are Elon Musk and Melania Trump. They are criminals; they violated immigration law. But I bet you think that's OK because they are white.

They entered the country illegally.
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More than half of illegal immgrants enter the country legally. Then they work, which makes them illegal. I've known a dozen or so. NONE entered the country illegally.

But you can’t just have open borders, inviting any and everybody to come into a country without any kind of vetting process.
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Agreed. We do have a vetting process.

The Biden administration should be held accountable.
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?? Trump was the one who got the border security bill torpedoed. He is responsible for the results of that.
 
exchemist said:
None of this addresses the question you posed in post 463, which is what I have been trying to answer. This was: "Why should the illegal-aliens not be deported?"
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The main problem of the immigration crisis which was caused by the Biden Administration, is the extreme criminal element that has been allowed to enter the country, which number approximately 400,000. That wouldn’t the amount of money you mentioned.
The countries which sent the worst of their citizens should have no say whether or not their citizens are returned.
The most important thing is that the citizens of America are protected, as it is they who elect and pay the government.
 
Trek said:
The main problem of the immigration crisis which was caused by the Biden Administration, is the extreme criminal element that has been allowed to enter the country, which number approximately 400,000. That wouldn’t the amount of money you mentioned.
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Illegal immigrants are half as likely to commit serious crimes as US citizens. Your fearmongering has failed! In fact, if we allowed more illegal aliens in and deported our own worst criminals (say, felons and rapists) then the crime rate would go DOWN.

www.scientificamerican.com

Undocumented Immigrants Are Half as Likely to Be Arrested for Violent Crimes as U.S.-Born Citizens

Some of the most solid evidence to date shows that President Trump’s cornerstone immigration policy was built on a wholly false premise
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

news.northwestern.edu

Immigrants are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born

A study co-led by Northwestern University economist Elisa Jácome provides the first historical comparison of incarceration rates of immigrants to U.S.-born citizens.<br />
news.northwestern.edu news.northwestern.edu
 
But that
Trek said:
The main problem of the immigration crisis which was caused by the Biden Administration, is the extreme criminal element that has been allowed to enter the country, which number approximately 400,000. That wouldn’t the amount of money you mentioned.
The countries which sent the worst of their citizens should have no say whether or not their citizens are returned.
The most important thing is that the citizens of America are protected, as it is they who elect and pay the government.
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Ah, but that is neither what Trump claims he will do, nor the question you asked in post 463. You asked why “the illegal aliens” should not be deported. That includes them all: millions of them, law-abiding apart from their immigration status, important to the economy and many having families with US partners.

You did not ask why should “those illegal aliens with criminal convictions” not be deported. That would be a much more plausible idea, since the numbers are far smaller and it is already common practice to deport foreign criminals.

If, on reflection, that far more reasonable policy is the one you would support, I think you would have an arguable case for it.
 
People have been countering immigration myths for nine years now and showing us that facts have zero impact on the MAGA believers. Trek is a troll lacking the slightest interest in facts which contradict his RW drip feed. One may in good conscience ignore his vile lies and trollish provocations.
 
exchemist said:
Ah, but that is neither what Trump claims he will do, nor the question you asked in post 463. You asked why “the illegal aliens” should not be deported. That includes them all: millions of them, law-abiding apart from their immigration status, important to the economy and many having families with US partners.
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Indeed, it includes Melania Trump and Elon Musk, who were both illegal aliens when they first came to the US.

But they're white so they don't count.
 
Trek said:
The main problem of the immigration crisis which was caused by the Biden Administration, is the extreme criminal element that has been allowed to enter the country, which number approximately 400,000. That wouldn’t the amount of money you mentioned.
The countries which sent the worst of their citizens should have no say whether or not their citizens are returned.
The most important thing is that the citizens of America are protected, as it is they who elect and pay the government.
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Looks like all the Fox News talking points. Lies of course. You're obviously not a Christian.
 
Trek said:
The main problem of the immigration crisis which was caused by the Biden Administration, is the extreme criminal element that has been allowed to enter the country, which number approximately 400,000. That wouldn’t the amount of money you mentioned.
The countries which sent the worst of their citizens should have no say whether or not their citizens are returned.
The most important thing is that the citizens of America are protected, as it is they who elect and pay the government.
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Good grief. Tying the 400k number to Biden is either laziness (if I'm being generous) or deliberate dishonesty on your part. The laziness comes from you simply accepting the bollox that Trump and Fox spew out.
1. The 400,000 number is not the "extreme criminal element", but all those with a criminal record, from minor up to, yes, the "extreme"
2. The 400,000 number are those who have been let into the country over decades - including by the Trump administration, even as far back as the Bushes. It is not all Biden/Harris. Not even remotely.
3. A good proportion of those 400,000 are in Federal or State prison, and simply haven't been processed by ICE.

Sure, there have been instances of people being raped, or murdered, by illegal immigrants. But undocumented immigrants are half as likely to commit these than US-born citizens. Trump and MAGA keep harking on about the few cases they know about to stoke their narrative, while ignoring the countless horrific crimes committed by US-born citizens. And MAGA supporters seem to lap it up.

Furthermore, Trump is so effing stupid that he doesn't understand what "asylum" means with regard immigrants. It's why he kept bringing up Hannibal Lecter. He thinks that people seeking asylum are coming from mental asylums in their own country. Seriously, the guy is as dumb as an ox. And that's probably being unfair on the ox.
 
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