christians and jews, do they believe in each others' prophets?

[CheskiChips]

I'm not sure, but I do know that there is a longstanding inferiority complex deeply rooted in the minds of modern day Jews due to Christians. They make them feel as though they only have half of a religion.

???
Where?

There's only annoyance - we've been in Christian countries for 1600 years and they have miraculously managed to learn nothing about what we believe. Rather they've superimposed their theology on us, I remember being in school as a child and being told about transubstantiation and being ridiculed because I was the only person who thought it was an insane notion, yet 96% of the people around me believed it.

Do you understand what it's like being Jewish? "A man wrote about another man 220 after the first man died who was some how a living deity born of a virgin...and then for 1800 years they killed your ancestors over it and as recently as 60 years ago they slaughtered 6 million over the distinction."
Every day when you buy something someone remarks "Bet you're getting a good deal", or when you don't give money to a homeless person you get a bunch of snide remarks. Or simply walking near the Southern Baptists they call you a Christ killer - Passion of the Christ, great movie.

I was once working and a woman comes in and asks to see my horns, and I didn't feel shocked over it - it happens in the south a lot.

Is it inferiority, or annoyance?

 

[786]

lol

Peace be unto you

 

[S.A.M.]

There's only annoyance - we've been in Christian countries for 1600 years and they have miraculously managed to learn nothing about what we believe

This is true. Does anyone know what Hanukkah is about?

I was the only person who thought it was an insane notion, yet 96% of the people around me believed it.

Do you understand what it's like being Jewish?

Ha yes, I never thought of that, it must be strange when you are in a minority of people who don't believe what everyone else does.

We have a lot of diversity here at the forum.... Didn't know any jews here.

Shalom (Peace be unto you)

Cheski is the only observant Jew here ie he is the only one here who believes in and knows the Torah. I was very happy when he joined, its rare to find one of these species.

There are some other Jews/Israelis but only Spock is one I know from Israel.

 

[WillNever]

Do you understand what it's like being Jewish?

As well as you understand what it's like being not jewish.

I was born and raised in Long Island, NY. There are tons of jews down there, if you've ever been. Manhattan has its fair share too. I've probably had more dealings with jewish people than tons of people who are jewish or at least pretend to be.

I still remember as far back as elementary school, when the Jewish parents would call the principal because they didn't want Christmas songs being sung at school concerts. It was never the Hindus who protested, never the muslims, never the Taoists. Even the seculars loved those Christmas songs. It was only the jewish parents (and the kids they brainwashed to hate Christmas) who did.

Why do you think that is, Cheski?

 

[CheskiChips]

I still remember as far back as elementary school, when the Jewish parents would call the principal because they didn't want Christmas songs being sung at school concerts. It was never the Hindus who protested, never the muslims, never the Taoists. Even the seculars loved those Christmas songs. It was only the jewish parents (and the kids they brainwashed to hate Christmas) who did.

Why do you think that is, Cheski?

There's just something about singing songs for a day which represents the birth of a man whose followers have caused hundreds of millions of people in your families death, that never caught on in the Jewish world.

Can I give you another hint? Idol worship, yeah, that's forbidden.


Here's a few excerpts from a Rabbi discussing the issue:
"Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.” It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid."

December 25 is a day on which Jews have been shamed, tortured, and murdered.ncarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.

The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

Nicholas (Santa Clause) was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.
Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.

Text: http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
Audio (more elaborate): http://audio.simpletoremember.com/misc/Real-Story-of-X-mas-and-New-Years-b.mp3


So you see....the Christmas Tree was pagan, the mistletoe - also pagan...the 'gift giving' actual a sacrifice to Saturn...Santa Clause? The remnants of an Anti-Semitic Catholic Bishop...and the Christian theme? The renunciation of Judaism.

Is it really that difficult to see why any self-respecting Jew might not want to celebrate the day - or for that matter, recognize it? The same author proposes Hitler day, if you make pretty songs and rituals to that - do we have to sing and dance to that one too?

 

[WillNever]

I'm aware of Christmas' pagan roots.

However, what you are saying (or at least who you are quoting) only reinforces what I said.

"Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.” It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid."

I'm not sure, but I do know that there is a longstanding inferiority complex deeply rooted in the minds of modern day Jews due to Christians. They make them feel as though they only have half of a religion.

There's an inferiority complex at work here that is causing Jews to view Christmas as a direct and deliberate attack upon their religion. Whether that idea is true, imagined, or exaggerated, they are still allowing their own insecurities about that holiday (and the religion it represents) affect them in an unhealthy way. Hardly anyone acts that way about Christmas except for militant jews. A lot of them aren't even that militant, though.

 

[S.A.M.]

consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

I always thought that was weird.

 

[CheskiChips]

I'm aware of Christmas' pagan roots.

However, what you are saying (or at least who you are quoting) only reinforces what I said.





There's an inferiority complex at work here that is causing Jews to view Christmas as a direct and deliberate attack upon their religion. Whether that idea is true, imagined, or exaggerated, they are still allowing their own insecurities about that holiday (and the religion it represents) affect them in an unhealthy way. Hardly anyone acts that way about Christmas except for militant jews. A lot of them aren't even that militant, though.

It's a holiday about renouncing Judaism...I wouldn't expect a Muslim to celebrate a holiday renouncing Islam, and I wouldn't expect a Christian to celebrate a holiday celebrating renouncing Christianity.

If anything most of them probably feel like they're slightly better than you for not practicing pagan acts. Are you even serious? Jews should just be 'tolerant' and celebrate a holiday that renounces their religion...which...ironically...falls VERY close to Hannukah, a holiday about rejecting Hellenism and the idea that we should all just be 'tolerant'?

 

[WillNever]

Cheski, you are acting as though renouncing judaism was the goal of Christmas. It was more of a side effect.

A disproportionate amount of the jews I've known over the years have carried a chip on their shoulder and/or had self-esteem issues related to this.

 

[WillNever]

I also want to point out for everybody reading that I practice no religion. My mother was a Methodist of Scottish descent and my father a Lutheran born right in Germany. After having my brothers and me, my mother decided to convert to Catholicism and tried raising us that way. All of us including her are now non-practicing, secular people.

So I really have no religious stake in this issue and I'm coming at it with a very even-handed approach. However, I still recognize and enjoy Christmas. Christians don't have the monopoly on goodwill, and the roots of the holiday matter little to me.

 

[CheskiChips]

Probably because people like you can't realize that celebrating a holiday that's antithetical to the 'coexistent' holiday of Hannukah is ridiculous. It stems from the fact that you don't know what Hannukah is. If you're so open minded, why don't you consider rejecting Hellenism for one year instead of Xmas?

There's no self-esteem issues, often, some children do feel a bit left out, seeing as we don't get debt-bearing gifts. It's also a tad bit agitating that people don't understand what "Rejecting Hellenism" means - paradoxically - every single Christmas (that's right, Christ - Mass) time people become increasingly angry at Jews killing their savior.

I remember one Christmas someone asked me if we mourned his birth.
I also remember one Easter someone asked me if we celebrated murdering him.

If you take (Anti-Semitic Comments + Celebration of Renouncing Judaism + Mass Ignorance of Hannukah + [Practically] Public School Requirement to Celebrate our destruction) that typically ='s a few annoyed yiddin.

---

Just because holidays don't mean anything to you, doesn't mean that's true to everyone. Look at the big Jewish holidays; Yom Kippur - day of atonement, Rosh HaShannah - Day of Judgement, Passover - day of freedom, Purim - day of re-accepting the Torah, Hannukah - day of renouncing Hellenism and Greek Culture, Tish B'Av - mourning destruction of temple.

You see, Jewish holidays represent real things, holidays mean something to Jews. When you ask us to celebrate a holiday which is rooted in our destruction we will automatically say no every time.
---
Here's something a secular might be able to understand. Say America was subjugated by China, and their values were imposed on us Americans. They then created a holiday celebrating the downfall of America...would you celebrate it?

 

[WillNever]

Cheski: none of that stuff is real. Christianity, Judaism, Islam -- it's all derived from the same ancient Sumerian mythological crappola. Those three religions are all very closely tied in that all of them have the same basic roots. None of it's authentic, and all of it's a load of nonsense. If you're going to renounce one of them, you should renounce them all.

I think you should probably quit your religion. It is only a little less lame than Islam. Besides what's wrong with Hellenism?

 

[CheskiChips]

You're right, my life's been a sham to this point. Thanks for point this out to me, finally I have a sense of clarity. I don't know if I would have ever snapped out of this haze without the assistance of atheists - what, with their superior intellect, IQ's, and logical deduction.

Notice a few interesting things...Secular Jews who turn out brilliant were almost all raised religious, their children on the other hand - typically average.

I prefer my method...I really do.

 

[WillNever]

Cheski, that article you cite is stating that a higher intelligence is non-existent, meaning that the rumor was surreptitiously propogated by self-conscious jews who wanted a better image for themselves, similarly to the practice of circumcision.

Following your religion is not going to increase your intelligence, cheski. Religiosity is the meaningless factor here. The difference is cultural, not religious. The jews who brought their children directly from Europe and made their homes on Grand Concourse Ave, NY made it a priority in life to ardently aspire to seek higher education because of their belief that while money could be stripped from you, money-making capacity could not be.

You are not a part of that, and neither are any of the jewish kids today. Expressing a forced belief in your religion because you think it will make you intelligent won't change that.

 

[CheskiChips]

Cheski, that article you cite is stating that a higher intelligence is probably non-existent, meaning that the rumor was surreptitiously propogated by self-conscious jews who wanted a better image for themselves, similarly to the practice of circumcision.

Following your religion is not going to increase your intelligence, cheski. Religiosity is the meaningless factor here. The difference is cultural, not religious. Those Jews who succeeded in life grew up in a very different time than you did, which is why the children of those Jews are typically average. The ones who migrated directly from Europe and established their homes on Grand Concourse Ave were inspired to ardently aspire to seek higher education in life because of their belief that while money could be stripped from you, money-making capacity could not be.

You are not a part of that, and neither are any of the jewish kids today.

Really?

 

[S.A.M.]

Secular Jews who turn out brilliant were almost all raised religious, their children on the other hand - typically average.

Yes thats something I find interesting too, I think one should look beyond two generations [grandparents too can have an influence] to understand the effects of "lack of belief" on the individual. I would predict a lack of understanding beyond the literal and the obvious, based purely on my interactions here.

 

[WillNever]

Really?

Yep, sorry.

 

[WillNever]

I think one should look beyond two generations [grandparents too can have an influence] to understand the effects of "lack of belief" on the individual.

I do agree. There are much more apparent factors at work here than simply being more or less secular. Asian-Americans are even more secular than jews are, they don't recognize less holidays than anybody... and they are fitting into an increasingly higher economic bracket than jews.

That is because they have adopted education and money-making as cultural priorities for themselves.

 

[GeoffP]

i don't get why the jews didn't follow jesus when he came along?

Because they didn't believe he was the Messiah. That's their right, not subject to abrogation. Do you understand now?

 

[GeoffP]

Probably because people like you can't realize that celebrating a holiday that's antithetical to the 'coexistent' holiday of Hannukah is ridiculous. It stems from the fact that you don't know what Hannukah is. If you're so open minded, why don't you consider rejecting Hellenism for one year instead of Xmas?

There's no self-esteem issues, often, some children do feel a bit left out, seeing as we don't get debt-bearing gifts. It's also a tad bit agitating that people don't understand what "Rejecting Hellenism" means - paradoxically - every single Christmas (that's right, Christ - Mass) time people become increasingly angry at Jews killing their savior.

I remember one Christmas someone asked me if we mourned his birth.
I also remember one Easter someone asked me if we celebrated murdering him.

Good God.

Fucking idiocy. Whoever asked you should not be allowed to vote. Again. Ever.

It's doubly ironic of course in that Jesus' death was the entire bloody point. Ask those stupid fuckers if they get that. Refer them to this forum, to me. Idiots.