Hiya Cris,
Originally posted by Cris
No, don’t worry. But you do reflect an overwhelming religious approach that has permeated life on this planet for thousands of years. It is difficult for most to ignore that powerful influence and think independently, critically, and objectively and for themselves. Your comments do not yet reflect what you think but what you have been told, and I judge that by the phraseology you use that I have seen many many times before.
There are bible scholars that think the way you describe regarding scripture. I am not a bible scholar, and never will be. If you take the virgin birth for example, scholars and scientists still talk about it now, this to me is stupid. My approach is based on a very strong belief in the word, and with that comes the belief that God and only God can do anything, this is why I came to the conclusion that if I read the words and looked at the evidence as a scholar or scientist I would get nowhere. My logic was if C(God) exists and I was at A, the only way to get to him was through B(Bible). Now the leap from A to B is pretty simple if you can read or listen or feel, but the key is to get from B to C, and I believe the only way to C from B is Believe funnily enough. Critical thinking when studying the Bible is for the people who want to unearth stones that prove that the biblical figure of King David exists or not for example, I'll let other people do that as I don't have the time, this could be called arrogant, stupid or maybe confident.
Saying something is fact doesn’t make it fact. If you believe your opponent has two deuces yet they really have two aces, then your belief is worthless. By blindly believing the bible without checking it for factual accuracy then you equally run the risk of being totally wrong. As I said you are gambling and in this case you cannot calculate the odds as I can when playing poker.
I hear what you're saying here. I really can't explain further why I have got such strong faith. I wouldn't believe as strongly regarding a poker game or flying pigs though.
The concept of flying pigs is a fantasy. To believe it is true is stupid. The concept of a god is equally a fantasy. Why isn’t it equally stupid if either is believed to be true? Why do you make a distinction? Why is believing a god exists any less stupid than believing pigs can fly?
You have presented to me the case for flying pigs. Right, I won't browse the Internet or anything regarding flying pigs as my gut instinct is that it's a load of rubbish, and worthless.
What is the basis for your belief? Do you have any facts to show that God is not a fantasy or are you just basing your belief on what you have been told?
As I've stated earlier in our discussion, my basis for my belief is that it makes sense to me. No, not what you would consider fact in anyway. Partly, as I did go to sunday school.
Look very very hard – there is no shred of factual evidence that indicates a god does exist, or could exist. The concept is entirely born of human imagination. If you say otherwise then show me the facts.
You're not going to like this but (the same old rebuke) you don't have any evidence that a God Doesn't or couldn't exist. But since you asked the question I'll answer, you either take what is written in the Holy Bible and its teachings as fact or fiction. This is the only fact I need, the existence of the word.
The trend indicates that the more we learn and know and the greater our intelligence then the less we are likely to be religious. If the trend continues then religions should be eventually discarded. Wouldn’t it be wise to consider why the more intelligent people tend not to be religious? Perhaps they have realized something that you have not grasped yet.
Learn and know more about what exactly? My brother fits snuggly in the high intelligence department( BS.H in Mathematic modelling and a Masters degree in Astrophysics. and a good job). He is an athiest, yet he has never even picked up a bible, is he a genius for disregarding something that you claim to be fiction without considering it? He has time on his side(hopefully, he is only 31) to evaluate his position. His religion as it stands could be called science. He is a top bloke though
OK but you are using the word faith as if it is something of value. This is religious indoctrination since religions can never appeal to reason or facts. Faith simply means to believe something without evidence. It is essentially an appeal to irrationality, and I do not see any value in that approach.
If our great scientists had no faith then we would be missing out on some wondorous discoveries. Your disregard for faith is strange, do you have faith in yourself?
The one you clearly haven’t experienced yet.
Good look with your amazing experiences!
No more than I can meaningfully describe a sexual orgasm to a child.
Yeah, the child wouldn't want to know in anyway.
If you have been conditioned and indoctrinated by British religion throughout your life then it will take many years to break away from that noose. The key is to think critically and objectively and not be seduced by what others tell you. Religion plays deeply on the emotions since it cannot appeal to logic, reason or the intellect, and emotions are notoriously the worst methods to use for making rational decisions.
I haven't been led by the hand my entire life, hardly at all come to think of it. My mother is in the Salvation Army but we never or rarely discuss religion. My dad never does unless I bring it up and you know about my brother. I don't attend a church on a weekly basis either.
My religious belief doesn't effect my rational decision making.
The individual is free to choose whatever they wish to believe but do not confuse such beliefs with truth. Believing something is true does not make it true. Truth is independent of individual beliefs.
Ok.
That you believe something is true which isn’t is simply a delusion. Can you demonstrate that your belief in a god is different to a delusion?
Well delusion can mean a false belief etc. So it's not a case of me proving it to be right, it's a case for you to prove me wrong, me not millions. A relationship with God is a personal thing that at this time is purely experienced by the individual, some people experience the Holy Spirit in numbers but for me it's been a personal thing and it's very real to me. I will appear delusional to you perhaps, but I really couldn't care less, I'm confident that I'm not delusional. I do fear fanatics of any religion as they are delusional in my opinion.
Can you demonstrate that you will not cease to exist at some point in time?
No. What do you think I am? A psychic
Can you demonstrate that such beliefs are any different from well established practices of positive thinking, or even just the placebo effect? Both of which are infinitely more likely and demonstrable than the fantasy influence of gods.
One difference springs to mind, Jesus Christ Son of God. I will admit that I haven't studied many other beliefs etc. but might get back to you on this one after I do.
Working with computers does tend to require rational thinking, but you are not demonstrating that method of thought when applied to your personal life. Rational thought or logic requires evidence in every instance, religions specifically do not use any evidence. How can you justify one side of life that uses reason and the other that does not?
tend?? personal life?? Studying religion isn't all I do in my personal life. Would you consider playing Chess, Golf and Fishing rational?
It makes sense to me. Some of the moves Bobby Fischer played(Chess) seemed irrational to many experts at the time, but to him made sense, and he was pretty good at it. This might be a bad example, but what I mean is every mind paints a different picture.
My only hope is that you develop the technique of thinking for yourself, critically and objectively and to distinguish between unsubstantiated superstition and truth.
You come across as if you think I'm a dumby, I do think objectively, critically etc.I just don't use these methods with Gods word. You cannot convince me otherwise Cris.
I do not want you to necessarily believe that what I believe is true but I encourage you to discover your own truth by your own ability to think rather than depend on what others think and tell you.
I am discovering my own truth thanks, it just differs from yours that's all.
Thanks for responding, your posts always make me think, which is good
Dave
