Challenge to theists

[Kendall]

It comes down to what the person believes that God is, then it could be right or wrong depending on what the person believes god is. It is a good thing to think that someone is watching over you I think, especially when you are young and are naive of your surroundings.

 

[everneo]

If God intentially created us, there must be a logical purpose for doing so, since being omnicient, God must be omnilogical as well.

So theists, for what purpose did God create us? What is ultimate goal with humanity? Will the material universe ever seize to exist? Is all of this leading up to something?

God wouldn't do something for no reason. In fact, no living being does anything for no reason. What was his reason in creating us, if he did?

To have fun. Is it not frightening that we are all under the grace of the biggest retard ?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It comes down to what the person believes that God is, then it could be right or wrong depending on what the person believes god is.

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M*W: Right in part. I would rephrase your statement and say, "It comes down to what a person believes god to be or not be, then it could either be right or wrongdepending on what a person believes."

It is a good thing to think that someone is watching over you I think, especially when you are young and are naive of your surroundings.

*************
M*W: Babies and young children need mommies, daddies, older siblings, grandparents, even pre-school and elementary school teachers, pediatricians, etc. to watch over them.

Teenagers need their parents, family members, neighbors possibly, older siblings, grandparents, schools, teachers, counselors, sports authorities and such to watch over them.

Adults need spouses, friends, sometimes even employers, governmental officials, municipal officials, home owner associations (ugh!), to watch over them.

The elderly need their spouses, children, maybe even grandchildren, neighbors, physicians, SSA, other governmental agencies who care for the elderly, nursing homes, residential communities, and home health aides to watch over them.

None of the above named people need a non-existent entity to watch over them, even if they believe it exists!

 

[Godless]

Hahhaha, wtf does this have to do at all with my logical argument?

What logical argument? You've spouted unsupported claims and call that shit logical, are you for real? Man you do have issues. Let me spell it out for you, first dig head out of arss, then continue.

 

[Kendall]

I just had five minutes of deep though into what I would do with 1 billion dollars, then it hit me that I would not want a billion dollars, not in my pocket,not in my house, not in my bank, but I do want a million or 2.

 

[Kendall]

"Originally posted by Kendall It is a good thing to think that someone is watching over you I think, especially when you are young and are naive of your surroundings. ”

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M*W: Babies and young children need mommies, daddies, older siblings, grandparents, even pre-school and elementary school teachers, pediatricians, etc. to watch over them.

Teenagers need their parents, family members, neighbors possibly, older siblings, grandparents, schools, teachers, counselors, sports authorities and such to watch over them.

Adults need spouses, friends, sometimes even employers, governmental officials, municipal officials, home owner associations (ugh!), to watch over them.

The elderly need their spouses, children, maybe even grandchildren, neighbors, physicians, SSA, other governmental agencies who care for the elderly, nursing homes, residential communities, and home health aides to watch over them.

None of the above named people need a non-existent entity to watch over them, even if they believe it exists!

Kendall:I was thinking more along the lines of how people can do things, kids more so and think that nobody knows about it when people actually know,
naughty or nice!

 

[Jeff 152]

Justified???? How can it be justifiable to reject the truth?

We do not care at all if people declare Christianity to be silly, that’s their grave error. People can use any kind of logic they want to reject the love of the truth but in the end the truth will be verified and those who rejected it will be stuffed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Are you really this blind and stubborn or are you kidding? I mean seriously, can you take a step back and tell me why it is that you picked the right god and evryone else is wrong? Is your belief obviously true because your story is more beliveable, has more evidence, more witnesses, more followers? Or maybe jesus has personally revealed himself to you?

How can you possibly not realize that there are other people, billions of people, who have personally seen allah and mohammad and zeus and ghosts and the loch ness monster and bigfoot. They are 100% convinced that they are right, just as you are convinced you are right. So take a step back from your drone perspective, cease to be the slave that you are and imagine you are an unbiased observer. A christian, a jew, a muslim, a mormon, a hindu, budddhist, or any number of people representing different religions all come to you and show you their irrefutable evidence, their witnesses, thier millions of followers, their revelations and prophecies. How can you possibly distinguish between any of them.

I dont know why I even bother with people like you. I mean is that seriously your argument, "how is it justified to reject the truth" like it is assumed that christianity is the truth no qustions asked? Your blindness and stubborness confuse and disgust me on the deepest level.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

The last time there was a rainbow I saw lenny and friends loitering at one end.

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M*W: At the end of that particular rainbow is Ye Olde Irish Pub.

 

[Adstar]

If God intentially created us, there must be a logical purpose for doing so, since being omnicient, God must be omnilogical as well.

So theists, for what purpose did God create us? What is ultimate goal with humanity? Will the material universe ever seize to exist? Is all of this leading up to something?

God wouldn't do something for no reason. In fact, no living being does anything for no reason. What was his reason in creating us, if he did?

We do not know. We can only speculate.

It is wrong to think that the universe is Gods main focus. The universe might be very much a secondary project to God. People thinking that the universe is the centre of God purpose might be suffering from a Universe centric mindset.

Here is speculation:

All the universe is a stage that God created to allow satan to do his worse and ensnare himself in his own cunning. satans actions within the universal stage will show all onlookers inn the heavenly host that H\he is not worthy to be God and it will also reveal why God is and can be the only God.

Of course that was just speculation.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Yorda]

The universe might be very much a secondary project to God. People thinking that the universe is the centre of God purpose might be suffering from a Universe centric mindset.

universe is all there is, so there can't be something else.
if there is something else, then that something else is part of the universe.

 

[(Q)]

Here is speculation:

All the universe is a stage that God created to allow satan to do his worse and ensnare himself in his own cunning. satans actions within the universal stage will show all onlookers inn the heavenly host that H\he is not worthy to be God and it will also reveal why God is and can be the only God.

Of course that was just speculation.

It's absolutely amazing the damage religion has caused and continues to do to people's minds. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, even without drugs.

 

[Godless]

Hell even Yorda seems to be more logical then some of the theist around here!

It's absolutely amazing the damage religion has caused and continues to do to people's minds. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, even without drugs.

But Q religion is their drug. Who was it that said: Religion is the opiate of the masses? Was quite right, you know!

 

[Enterprise-D]

We do not know. We can only speculate.

Here is speculation:

All the universe is a stage that God created to allow satan to do his worse and ensnare himself in his own cunning. satans actions within the universal stage will show all onlookers inn the heavenly host that H\he is not worthy to be God and it will also reveal why God is and can be the only God.

Of course that was just speculation.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I do hope that you cannot really countenance that speculation. It seems extremely vindictive and petty to me. A purportedly merciful being with super powers creating a universe complete with humans simply to taunt a rival power. It is tantamount to a cosmic "nya-nya-nuh-nya-nya, i'm better than you, so there!".

 

[Godless]

Adstar:

Of course that was just speculation.

As is everything you write!!

 

[shaman_]

Ofcourse I agree, but the same can be said about things people believed in science too, do you still believe an electron is the smallest particle, an electron can only exist in one position at once, the Sun revolves around the Earth, there is no such thing as a planet Pluto, blackholes aren't real, no dark matter, etc...

Advances in knowledge that have yet to be discovered through science are not comparable with false beliefs. You are trying to discredit science because it doesn’t know everything. That is absurd.

You believe whatever based upon your own personal experiences, your own logical conclusions, your own judgement of the evidence, etc....

But this is very similar the approach that you are criticising. You agree what we should look at the evidence but you seem to be defending those who believe in things without looking at evidence!

You seem to agree that we didn't evolve with all the answers in our head, yet at the sametime you say imply that science knows all there is to know,

Who do you think you are kidding when you write nonsense like that? Do not accuse me of implying things that I certainly did not.

get this through your atheistic mind, the truth, the actual truth, the way things really are, the way reality really is, the actual nature of reality, is most likely VERY different from what modern science has concluded...you agree yet you seem to disagree and ridicule those who postulate possiblities...

Theists are not "postulating possibilities". They believe in fantastic things without evidence.

You don't accept nor reject, you say it exists as a distinct possiblity, atheists do not do this, they assert that God cannot exist, God does not exist, there is no soul, there is no afterlife,

Are all your arguments based on these false assumptions? Atheism is merely “the disbelief or nonbelief in the existence of any deities” Perhaps you are referring to strong atheism.


Gods are a possibility but atheists won’t believe in them until there is some evidence, just as they wont believe in fairies until there is some evidence. It really isn’t that complicated. I'm sure this has been explained to you several times.

even though neurologists have yet to conclude what awareness or consciousness really is and there are many consciousness theories which would make consciousness independant of the brain (meaning conscousness could continue after death), but atheists deny it all, anyone who believes anything contrary to what they believe is just another delusional fool trapped in a fantasy world....

Strictly speaking atheism has nothing to do with life after death but I will continue. Atheists will not believe in life after death until there is some evidence. I will assume that you believe in life after death without evidence, which seems to be the opposite of what you described above…. Unless you have some evidence for after death survival?

even though neurologists have yet to conclude what awareness or consciousness really is and there are many consciousness theories which would make consciousness independant of the brain (meaning conscousness could continue after death), but atheists deny it all, anyone who believes anything contrary to what they believe is just another delusional fool trapped in a fantasy world....

Strictly speaking atheism has nothing to do with life after death. You misrepresent atheism regularly so that may not matter to you.

Ok so there are many theories about life after death. I'm sure many will agree that a theory isn't scientific until it is falsifiable but I will continue. So what about these theories that contradict each other? You have different ideas about what happens when we die - Valhalla, Avalon, reincarnation, heaven ect. Which one do you believe in? You have to look at the evidence and that is what the theists are not doing.

 

[Godless]

Advances in knowledge that have yet to be discovered through science are not comparable with false beliefs. You are trying to discredit science because it doesn’t know everything. That is absurd.

Not only that but he's also a hypocrite discrediting science using a product that took science to develop!

But this is very similar the approach that you are criticising. You agree what we should look at the evidence but you seem to be defending those who believe in things without looking at evidence!

His tactic is to use semantics turn shit around and make one look as if the argument is illogical.

You have to look at the evidence and that is what the theists are not doing.

Theists have a hard time with evidence, specially when it contradicts their doctrine, their belief, their faith. Evidence be damned, reason can go to hell, logic? who the hell needs it!! I have FAITH! that's the problem!

 

[lightgigantic]

Here is a very interesting argument I stumbled across. No theist I have asked has been able to respond to this argument, they strangely blow it off. I do not understand how this argument does not reveal the foolishness of at least christianity in this example.

So theists, please open your mind for one second and actually read this objectively, and place yourself outside of your religion for once. Imagine how other people must view you. This is just one o many great arguments. I simply can not comprehend how someone could read through this and remain so arrogantly and ignorantly confident that their god is the correct god.

http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm

Check out the rest of the site as well it has some neat stuff. This is just part of a complete 50 step proof that god is imaginary.

the difference between this and the claims of theism is that in theism the claims (often made by saintly persons) go hand in hand with normative descriptions (how one has to act in order to perceive god's nature) - in other words it is not just a claim but also a claim with a process that enables others to also come to the platform of direct perception - for persons who do not/ will not apply the process, then they usually determine the truth/falsity of a claim on the perceived credibility of the claimant - so in the case of the atheist, it is obvious that they don't perceive a high level of credibility within the circle of theists, but then since they don't apply the recommended processes of theism, their claims of incredulity are not substantial

 

[VitalOne]

No. Evidence is required as the minimum requirement to believe in something. I never even hinted otherwise. Now, answer my questions. Or are you a total coward?

1) What do you believe in right now VO, based on no evidence?

I believe in the many-worlds-interpretation and the many-minds-interpretation, God is the unchanging, eternal, unborn observer, all suffering is caused by the defiling impulses (or insecurities), this is what I believe...

2) What about the FSM? Or the idea that the universe is just one molecule in a coctail weenie in a larger universe? Why don't you fervently believe in that?

Put up or shut up bub.

I reject the FSM theory namely because it was created just as parody, not as an authentic search for the truth, just to ridicule theists....

 

[lightgigantic]

LG,


What phenomena, after investigation, leads to the inescapable conclusion that "god did it"?

consciousness

 

[VitalOne]

Kindly do not stereotype in such fashion. An atheist lacks belief in gods, that's it. Some atheists might deny everything and consider everyone else deluded fools, some might not. Some might say a god "cannot" exist, some wont. Etc etc etc.

Oh I get it, its perfectly ok for atheists to stereotype theists but not the other way around right? Then you're doing something bad...

Man you atheists sure proved the stereotypes wrong:

Leperchauns are real,lol.

I'm aware of that. Lenny, the leader of all leprechauns, is a personal friend of mine.

*************
M*W: At the end of that particular rainbow is Ye Olde Irish Pub.

Aye lass. 'Tis true.

Hell even Yorda seems to be more logical then some of the theist around here!



But Q religion is their drug. Who was it that said: Religion is the opiate of the masses? Was quite right, you know!

It's absolutely amazing the damage religion has caused and continues to do to people's minds. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, even without drugs.

gods, much like the invisible flying atomic banana, might exist. Perhaps as we speak Zeus and his gang are discussing godly matters in some godly realm... I cannot guarantee you that they're not. However, just as you would demand evidence if someone was claiming that leprechauns or the atomic banana existed, I do the same in return. For some reason you think it's ok if you ask it of everyone else but not if they ask it of you.

Until such time when evidence can be shown to suggest the existence of any of the millions of gods, there's no reason to really take the belief seriously... much like you with leprechauns.

From reading this it appears as if you haven't really read any religious scripture...atheists always say things like "you really believe there's a guy up in the sky" but which religious scripture says that? The scriptures say that God is within you, through you, unborn, eternal, the observer, existing before the material world, after, and in between, this is certainly not comparable to a flying bannana....