Challenge to theists

superluminal said:
Did you read my big words? Are you ashamed to be perpetuating the lies and slander against atheists, you lying slanderer?
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what lies???

and i was talking to you... did it bother you?

you admit... you can believe in the possibility of a multiverse... and of an oscilating crunch and bang...

can you also declare that a God.. as the source of energy in creation could also exist....

that it is one of the possiblities?

can you tell me that?

-MT
 
I am an atheist, but I think that a nut must have created the site with all the anti-religion proofs. That had to take a lot of time and effort. If he was not paid for his efforts, he has to be damned bored with his existence.

Why can't he be content with his views and spend his time making money, looking for sex, learning mathematics, improving his phsyical abilities, learning to play a musical instrument, going to the opera or to a rock festival, or whatever?
 
superluminal said:
[Deleted]. Atheism is just the stance that it makes no sense to believe in something until there's a good reason to. Simple really. I'd expect even people with your mental deficiencies to be able to understand that.
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That stance is flawed, there are many many things that ARE TRUE that there is no objective evidence supporting...so you being a complete fool to the very highest degree would be believing that the Sun revolved around the Earth in the 1500s since thats what the objective evidence showed at the time...you could clearly see the Sun in the sky moving around the Earth there was no evidence supporting anything else, no good reason to believe ANYTHING else...not until new evidence was gathered...hahaha just goes to show you that atheism is very flawed based chiefly upon blind faith...
 
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VitalOne said:
EVIDENCE DOES NOT CAUSE SOMETHING TO BE TRUE


Right, and I'm sure in the past it would be the "obvious" notion to say that dinosaurs didn't exist, because "rationally" it would seem so, but in reality regardless of if people had discovered fossils or not, dinosaurs would've still existed, regardless.....this is why atheism is flawed...its about what is rational without any objective evidence its just an assumption based upon nothing....
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While the illusory perception of scientific discourse is that it is a discourse of pure description of facticity, the paradox resides in the coincidence of bare facticity and radical voluntarism: facticity can be sustained as meaningless, as something that "just is as it is," only if it is sustained by a divine will.
 
That stance is flawed, there are many many things that ARE TRUE that there is no objective evidence supporting...so you being a complete fool to the very highest degree would be believing that the Sun revolved around the Earth in the 1500s since thats what the objective evidence showed at the time...
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Man do you need a lesson in history! It was the F**king church who thought the sun revolved around the sun, and if any contradicted that was burnt, killed, or jailed! GYHOOYA!

Aristarchus of Samos (c. 310-230 BC), Greek astronomer, first to maintain that the Earth rotates and revolves around the Sun. On this ground, Cleanthes the Stoic declared that he ought to be indicted for impiety.
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So basically theist ignorants of the time rather went with the geocentric theory instead of the heliocentric theory, for many, many years, it was scientist who had the freaking BALLS to go against church assholes, such as Leonardo, Copernicus, and Bruno to name a few, that paid with their lives, for what the EVIDENCE of their research had shown them!

Get a godamn education man, I'm a freaking high school drop out, know more about astronomical history then you, that's embarasing!
 
Jeff 152 said:
Did you read it? That was not his argument at all. While of course his belief that magic is impossible was a part if his argument, the main point he was making was to show how blind and stubborn christians are. He wanted the christians to read the story of the mormons and the muslims and think to themselves how silly their beliefs was (golden plates, cmon thats ridiculous). By then juxtaposing the christian story with that of other religions, hopefully the christians would not be so closeminded and realize that their story is very similar, and at least understand why other people would doubt christianity, for essentially they are doing the same thing the christians do in doubting other religions.

Basically, theists do not seem to understand why atheists do not believe. They look around and read the bible and see evidence of jesus in everyday life. However, they can easily dismiss other religions as false. The entire purpose was to get christians to realize that atheists and other religions alike are just as justified in dismissing christianity and calling it silly as they are to dismiss islam and mormonism.
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Justified???? How can it be justifiable to reject the truth?

We do not care at all if people declare Christianity to be silly, that’s their grave error. People can use any kind of logic they want to reject the love of the truth but in the end the truth will be verified and those who rejected it will be stuffed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
VitalOne,

Many people have believed many things over the years that are clearly based on superstition. Do you agree?

For example, over the centuries people have believed that the sun is Ra, Thor creates lightning, gremlins cause machinery to break, elves, pixies, demons, loch ness monster ect.

So how do you know what to believe? Do you just believe that they are all true? Can you see how absurd that would be? They can't all possibly be true. So you have to base your opinions on the evidence available at the time. Atheism is just a rejection of belief in gods/god due to the lack of evidence. You seem to be asserting that this is flawed because we don't know everything now and there are things that we will learn to be true later on. Well this is unfortunately the way it works, we didn't evolve with all the answers already in our heads.

So if you are going to accept everything without evidence how do you know what is true and what isn't?




VitalOne said:
That stance is flawed, there are many many things that ARE TRUE that there is no objective evidence supporting
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Such as?
 
mosheh, three dots after each sentence does not automatically make your nonsense sound profound...
 
If God intentially created us, there must be a logical purpose for doing so, since being omnicient, God must be omnilogical as well.

So theists, for what purpose did God create us? What is ultimate goal with humanity? Will the material universe ever seize to exist? Is all of this leading up to something?

God wouldn't do something for no reason. In fact, no living being does anything for no reason. What was his reason in creating us, if he did?
 
God's plan is at hand.
God's purpose is his plan
God's plan is a mystery and unknowable
God's plan seems to include any freaking thing that happens in our lives, either good or bad.

Can't you tell nds1 that all this sounds like "BS"? basically to get some ignorant people provide the "deliverer" The clergy with a living, so they think that they can interpret "god's plan" All done for a fee, collected on any given Sunday!

Dig deep in your pockets, and remember we rather have the kind that folds, instead of the kind that jingles. (line from Coming To America, Eddie Murphy)

Where do you think all the money goes? haven't you seen the pastors new Lexus? His million dollar home, the more popular these thieves are the richer. Ever herd of Pat Robertson? That SOB is worth about a billion $! How do you suppose he made all that money?
 
Obviously you didn't read much, or have little understanding of logic and reason! Yea! never mind, I see your deluded!.

The challenge is (Where is the F*CKING evidence of your claims?)
 
I read all that was on the page I was linked to, what is it that because santa and the easter bunny are not real that religion or god is not real? What claim is it you want me to back up?
 
Then simply put on a list why you don't believe in Santa and the Easter bunny, after you make the list of why you don't believe, just substitute "god" in front of each reason you posit and you have my reasons why I don't believe in god! ;)
 
superluminal said:
Oops. Your not learning after all.

What do you believe in right now VO, based on no evidence? Oh. Right. GOD.

What about the FSM? Or the idea that the universe is just ome molecule in a coctail weenie in a larger universe? Why don't you fervently believe in that?
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Again, as I previously stated there are many things that ARE 100% TRUE of which there is no objective evidence for yet, in the future many new discoveries and experiments will be conducted...you agree yet you still have some type of f**k up atheistic idea that "evidence causes something to become true", evidence is the cause of the truth, without it something is not true...hahaha


Godless said:
Man do you need a lesson in history! It was the F**king church who thought the sun revolved around the sun, and if any contradicted that was burnt, killed, or jailed! GYHOOYA!

So basically theist ignorants of the time rather went with the geocentric theory instead of the heliocentric theory, for many, many years, it was scientist who had the freaking BALLS to go against church assholes, such as Leonardo, Copernicus, and Bruno to name a few, that paid with their lives, for what the EVIDENCE of their research had shown them!

Get a godamn education man, I'm a freaking high school drop out, know more about astronomical history then you, that's embarasing!
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Hahhaha, wtf does this have to do at all with my logical argument? When did I state that the Church didn't try to prevent heliocentric ideas? How is anything you stated above relevant at all to my argument?


shaman_ said:
VitalOne,

Many people have believed many things over the years that are clearly based on superstition. Do you agree?

For example, over the centuries people have believed that the sun is Ra, Thor creates lightning, gremlins cause machinery to break, elves, pixies, demons, loch ness monster ect.
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Ofcourse I agree, but the same can be said about things people believed in science too, do you still believe an electron is the smallest particle, an electron can only exist in one position at once, the Sun revolves around the Earth, there is no such thing as a planet Pluto, blackholes aren't real, no dark matter, etc...

shaman_ said:
So how do you know what to believe? Do you just believe that they are all true? Can you see how absurd that would be? They can't all possibly be true. So you have to base your opinions on the evidence available at the time. Atheism is just a rejection of belief in gods/god due to the lack of evidence. You seem to be asserting that this is flawed because we don't know everything now and there are things that we will learn to be true later on. Well this is unfortunately the way it works, we didn't evolve with all the answers already in our heads.
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You believe whatever based upon your own personal experiences, your own logical conclusions, your own judgement of the evidence, etc....

You seem to agree that we didn't evolve with all the answers in our head, yet at the sametime you say imply that science knows all there is to know, get this through your atheistic mind, the truth, the actual truth, the way things really are, the way reality really is, the actual nature of reality, is most likely VERY different from what modern science has concluded...you agree yet you seem to disagree and ridicule those who postulate possiblities...

shaman_ said:
So if you are going to accept everything without evidence how do you know what is true and what isn't?
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You don't accept nor reject, you say it exists as a distinct possiblity, atheists do not do this, they assert that God cannot exist, God does not exist, there is no soul, there is no afterlife, even though neurologists have yet to conclude what awareness or consciousness really is and there are many consciousness theories which would make consciousness independant of the brain (meaning conscousness could continue after death), but atheists deny it all, anyone who believes anything contrary to what they believe is just another delusional fool trapped in a fantasy world....


shamn_ said:
Such as?
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How am I supposed to predict the future and tell you that this discovery will be made and such experiment will prove this, etc...?

However I will state this; in modern science currently there are many theories of which there is no objective experimental evidence distinguishing which theory is false and which is true (or if one is partially false or partially true), like the theory of relativity, the Copenhagen, many-worlds-theory, etc....do you know what this really means? It means that most likely in the future, some type of objective evidence will be gained distinguishing which one is true and which is false (or if some other theory is true), once that happens and one is proven to be *definitely* true our ENTIRE perception of reality will change FOREVER.....just understand that...
 
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atheists do not do this, they assert that God cannot exist, God does not exist, there is no soul, there is no afterlife.. atheists deny it all, anyone who believes anything contrary to what they believe is just another delusional fool trapped in a fantasy world....
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Kindly do not stereotype in such fashion. An atheist lacks belief in gods, that's it. Some atheists might deny everything and consider everyone else deluded fools, some might not. Some might say a god "cannot" exist, some wont. Etc etc etc.

gods, much like the invisible flying atomic banana, might exist. Perhaps as we speak Zeus and his gang are discussing godly matters in some godly realm... I cannot guarantee you that they're not. However, just as you would demand evidence if someone was claiming that leprechauns or the atomic banana existed, I do the same in return. For some reason you think it's ok if you ask it of everyone else but not if they ask it of you.

Until such time when evidence can be shown to suggest the existence of any of the millions of gods, there's no reason to really take the belief seriously... much like you with leprechauns.
 
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