Challenge to theists

J

Jeff 152

Registered Senior Member
Here is a very interesting argument I stumbled across. No theist I have asked has been able to respond to this argument, they strangely blow it off. I do not understand how this argument does not reveal the foolishness of at least christianity in this example.

So theists, please open your mind for one second and actually read this objectively, and place yourself outside of your religion for once. Imagine how other people must view you. This is just one o many great arguments. I simply can not comprehend how someone could read through this and remain so arrogantly and ignorantly confident that their god is the correct god.

http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm

Check out the rest of the site as well it has some neat stuff. This is just part of a complete 50 step proof that god is imaginary.
 
Jeff, thank you for posting this. I wasn't aware of the actual story and nature of the visions of Mohammad. All I knew was that he claimed he had them. Very interesting.

I wonder if I could have started my own religion back then by claiming I had visions of Gabriel and that Christianity was BS.
 
Jeff 152 said:
Here is a very interesting argument I stumbled across. No theist I have asked has been able to respond to this argument, they strangely blow it off. I do not understand how this argument does not reveal the foolishness of at least christianity in this example.

So theists, please open your mind for one second and actually read this objectively, and place yourself outside of your religion for once. Imagine how other people must view you. This is just one o many great arguments. I simply can not comprehend how someone could read through this and remain so arrogantly and ignorantly confident that their god is the correct god.

http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm

Check out the rest of the site as well it has some neat stuff. This is just part of a complete 50 step proof that god is imaginary.
Click to expand...

Jeff it only reveals the thinking of the person who wrote it. His arguments come from the point of view that a God cannot exist, that all that exists is what we can see in this universe. Of course he went to great lengths to explain why he thinks belief in God is delusional, his major focus seemed to be because theists believe in the power of God to do signs and wonders ("magical") then that proves that God does not exist because magic cannot happen....

Of course if God exists then he can perform even greater signs and wonders then revealed by scriptures.

So his arguments will only ever work to convince like-minded individuals who will come to the same conclusions by themselves anyway. The basic construct of his arguments will never move one who believes in God, one who believe that with God great (magical) feats are possible.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
nds1 said:
Jeff, thank you for posting this. I wasn't aware of the actual story and nature of the visions of Mohammad. All I knew was that he claimed he had them. Very interesting.

I wonder if I could have started my own religion back then by claiming I had visions of Gabriel and that Christianity was BS.
Click to expand...

Yes you probably could. People are still doing it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Of course he went to great lengths to explain why he thinks belief in God is delusional, his major focus seemed to be because theists believe in the power of God to do signs and wonders ("magical") then that proves that God does not exist because magic cannot happen....
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Did you read it? That was not his argument at all. While of course his belief that magic is impossible was a part if his argument, the main point he was making was to show how blind and stubborn christians are. He wanted the christians to read the story of the mormons and the muslims and think to themselves how silly their beliefs was (golden plates, cmon thats ridiculous). By then juxtaposing the christian story with that of other religions, hopefully the christians would not be so closeminded and realize that their story is very similar, and at least understand why other people would doubt christianity, for essentially they are doing the same thing the christians do in doubting other religions.

Basically, theists do not seem to understand why atheists do not believe. They look around and read the bible and see evidence of jesus in everyday life. However, they can easily dismiss other religions as false. The entire purpose was to get christians to realize that atheists and other religions alike are just as justified in dismissing christianity and calling it silly as they are to dismiss islam and mormonism.
 
THE ARGUEMENT IS BULLSHIT... and has no substance.

I am a theist.... and i challenge you, in all your learning and wisdom to show me real and valid reasons why i should not believe.
and i will show you better more valid reasons to believe.

i am a christian ... and jew... and muslim.. and hindu.. metaphysicist, and taoist with buddism rounding out my world.

My belief is in a creator... one which did create the universe directly along the basic lines put forth by Moses.

and i follow Jesus... not because i think he was God... but because he was right.... he was always right.. and his wisdom is worth listening to.

too many people think... that because some bit of scripture is flawed.... or is imperfect... that the entire religion is crap.

that.. because maybe.. a religion does suck ass... maybe.

but is that gods fault?

no... its mans fault.

god, gave us life and the will to live it, after that he doesnt get much involved.... but supposively... on occassion he warps the minds of various men to allow them to do something important... like Moses.. like Jesus... and like Mohammed.. even Krshna... and Buddha.. Tao.. Confuscious... many others.
these were leaders of men... not in war... not in wealth and politics.

they were leaders of the mind.

they, if you were to study their teachings... are pretty awesome people.
well worth listening to.

do not confuse.... the confusion of men in trying to understand God..
with the idea that there must therefore be no god.. because of all the stupid men who run the religions.

we are all very stupid.

we know less, than we dont know.

I would suggest you be less blind to the possibility.

-MT
 
1) energy was either applied to create the universe or it wasnt.
whats the odds on that?

2) I am the Theist.... i am not here to convert you all.
this is not my thread.

i am here to be crushed... for my stupidity, apparently.

well... im still waiting.. and so far... you guys are like little bugs to me.

my faith has not wavered.

do you dare to try and make it fall? HAHAha.... i laugh at you.

-MT
 
MT you have not responded to the argument i gave. What? you blend all religions into your belief so that you think all of the different religions are on your side? WRONG! hate to break it to you but you are going to hell according to teh christians. Is santa claus and mormonism part of your beliefs as well? if not how do you dismiss them? what is your basis for dismissing them?

Would you like my argument for why i do not believe in God? Write on a piece of paper why you dont believe in santa or ghosts or leprechauns or teh tooth fairy. Just a bulleted list of reasons, such as its illogical, no evidence, etc. Then wherever you wrote santa or whatever just substitute your belief name. and there you have it, my personalized reasons for not believing delivered right to your hand!
 
Jeff 152 said:
MT you have not responded to the argument i gave. What? you blend all religions into your belief so that you think all of the different religions are on your side? WRONG! hate to break it to you but you are going to hell according to teh christians. Is santa claus and mormonism part of your beliefs as well? if not how do you dismiss them? what is your basis for dismissing them?

Would you like my argument for why i do not believe in God? Write on a piece of paper why you dont believe in santa or ghosts or leprechauns or teh tooth fairy. Just a bulleted list of reasons, such as its illogical, no evidence, etc. Then wherever you wrote santa or whatever just substitute your belief name. and there you have it, my personalized reasons for not believing delivered right to your hand!
Click to expand...

what the hell is amatter with you?

why the [deleted] would i associate my belief in a God, as creator of time and space and matter and energy....
as having anything to do with sanat claus or elves and fucking faires?

are you wacked or something?

like i said... its a dumb arguement... santa... does not equal god.

i dont know what kind of messed up childhood experiences you have had to make you so hostile and bitter about a potential god.

but you need to wake up to the reality.

the universe... had a beginning... according to science.

it either had energy applied... or it somehow used stored energy.

the odds of energy being applied , is in my opinion better than the odds for energy storage.

are you a betting man?

-MT
 
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superluminal said:
Of course it hasn't. And why would anyone try to do that? Faith is one of the most unshakable mental states known, simply because it resides in the minds of the fearful, ignorant, or brainwashed to begin with. It is the abandonment of reason afterall. Makes sense, huh?
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NO.. thats the difference... my faith is based on real theoretical reasons.

my faith is actually based in the empirical evidense of the sciences.

-MT
 
Jeff 152 said:
Here is a very interesting argument I stumbled across. No theist I have asked has been able to respond to this argument, they strangely blow it off. I do not understand how this argument does not reveal the foolishness of at least christianity in this example.

So theists, please open your mind for one second and actually read this objectively, and place yourself outside of your religion for once. Imagine how other people must view you. This is just one o many great arguments. I simply can not comprehend how someone could read through this and remain so arrogantly and ignorantly confident that their god is the correct god.

http://godisimaginary.com/i7.htm

Check out the rest of the site as well it has some neat stuff. This is just part of a complete 50 step proof that god is imaginary.
Click to expand...
How is this atheist-biased site any different from theist-biased sites that claim that evolution is false and the Earth is 6,000 years old, etc....? Its all based upon a logical argument that doesn't even matter at all....

If I told you that gigantic monster-like creatures existed millions of years ago before the discovery of dinosaur fossils regardless of what you "believe" or how far-fetched it sounds it would still be true....
 
VitalOne said:
If I told you that gigantic monster-like creatures existed millions of years ago before the discovery of dinosaur fossils regardless of what you "believe" or how far-fetched it sounds it would still be true....
Click to expand...
yes, but any logical person would think you are crazy until you found fossils. Im waitin for the bones baby! until then i think your crazy.

and just by the way, a complete absense of evidence such as for dinosaurs is much more convincing than god, for there is much evidence against him and he just makes no logical sense. The belief that there were big creatures who died before humans is not illogical at all. It seems pulled out of thin air, but there is no reason why that couldnt be true. this is not the case for god becasue his attributes are contradictory and his existence makes no sense
 
superluminal said:
This is where your argument falls totally apart!

We would be absolutely right to not believe in giant ancient monsters! With no evidence to support your claims, we'd be fools to believe it. Whether something is eventually shown to be "true" or not has NOTHING to do with your present state of belief. By your logic anything that is possible should be believed in, just because we don't have evidence for or against it at the current time. How rediculous is that?
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Jeff 152 said:
yes, but any logical person would think you are crazy until you found fossils. Im waitin for the bones baby! until then i think your crazy.

and just by the way, a complete absense of evidence such as for dinosaurs is much more convincing than god, for there is much evidence against him and he just makes no logical sense. The belief that there were big creatures who died before humans is not illogical at all. It seems pulled out of thin air, but there is no reason why that couldnt be true. this is not the case for god becasue his attributes are contradictory and his existence makes no sense
Click to expand...

Regardless of what, it would still be TRUE....there in lies the problem with atheism, its not about seeking the truth, finding out whats actually true in reality, its just based upon useless logical arguments which have no basis in reality....like you all stated atheism isn't about the truth or discovering the truth...its about thinking about what is rational based upon no objective evidence, which if you look at reality or the truth it isn't what one would believe to be rational at all....which is why atheism falls apart very quickly...science has no real evidence for or against a soul/God/afterlife, etc...so it remains a distinct REAL possiblity....regardless of the current evidence...
 
JEFF AND SUPERLUMINAL


MADNESS... YOU CAN BELIEVE IN AN ENDLESS MULTIVERSE...

but God... is not possible.?

im sorry... but if you can consider the very doubtful idea of oscilating space into crunch and bang....

or... a vast endless multiverse..

then you must admit...

a God... of somekind is on the table.

it doesnt have to have a mind... but the idea.. must be considered.

-MT
 
the lenghts atheists go to..... is sad really.

alot of big words.... but no intelegence.

when confronted with simple logic... atheists becomes... barbarians.

this explains alot.

-MT
 
superluminal said:
Only after the fact of evidence! Are you really that dense?
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HAHAHHAHAHA

Are you declaring to me that the Sun revolved around the Earth until it was proven not so?

An electron was the smallest particle until proven not to be so?

Or in reality was it so BEFORE? HAHAHAHA

The truth is the truth, REGARDLESS of the current evidence...get that through your dense head...

EVIDENCE DOES NOT CAUSE SOMETHING TO BE TRUE

superliminal said:
Rambling insanity. And we told you a THOUSAND TIMES! We don't outright deny the possibility of a god. It's just extremely unlikely until some real evidence would be presented. Can't you read? Are you so blind that you keep repeating the same lying statements over and over and over again?

Atheism is nothing more that the OBVIOUS recognition of the complete lack of any reason to believe in a god thingy. No more reason to believe in one of your gods or intelligences than there is to believe in the FSM of santa.

It's soooo easy! Why do you insist on msking this any more complicated? No evidence. No reason. Just shrug it off as another human myth. Move on. Sheesh!
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Right, and I'm sure in the past it would be the "obvious" notion to say that dinosaurs didn't exist, because "rationally" it would seem so, but in reality regardless of if people had discovered fossils or not, dinosaurs would've still existed, regardless.....this is why atheism is flawed...its about what is rational without any objective evidence its just an assumption based upon nothing....
 
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