Can we now say that insulin induced stomach acidity may make a person feel hungry? A person on diabetic medications may feel hungry again & again in relation to effect of medications induced insulin? However, a person with low level of insulin ( natural or induced), otherwise, can get low stomach acid & so can feel loss of hunger. Does it look logical?
Cephalic phase
- Thread starter Kumar
- Start date
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Its not stomach acid alone which promotes hunger but the chain reaction induced by the insulin hormone. One could als call it a hunger hormone if u will 
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Yes I would imagine so since insulin encourages the body to use up its glucose supplies.
Don't we then increase the hunger & so obesity by induced insulin? Is it not a good indication that when a diabetic patient feel hunger again & again--he may be having excess insulin. Is it correct to prescribe for induced insulin when a patient is having insulin resistance/excess insulin but not used? I think excess weight/obesity should be an indication of excess insulin but not used & so measures to correct IR may only be just sufficient.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Its not that siple since insulin still works to increase the bodys metabolism and people with very low insulin levels can actually gain fat if they eat the same food contrary to popular belief!
It is commonly done but not the correct way of dealing with it really. Type II diabetes should be treated at the resistance stage by such means as lowering blood glucose and by taking special drugs which increase sensitivity.
No, as I've said, it might indicate the opposite!
John Connellan said:
Do you mean to say that:
1. Very low level of insulin>> gain fat>> weight gain
2. High level of insulin >> IR >> High blood sugar>> lose sugar in urine>>weight loss ( may increase also if we consider insulin being not used due to IR, therefore is at low available level)
3. High level of insulin without IR >> better sugar control>> no weight gain or lose weight.
It means proper level & proper working of insulin keeps the weght low or constant whereas its low or excess levels with improper use can lead to weght gain. Is it ok.
Yes, it is commonly practiced. Will it not furthur complicate the IR & other diabetic complications? Is it not like an adding/aggravating pre-diabetic condition?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Pretty much, except in number 3, it is almost impossible to have high levels of insulin without developing IR after some time
No, because pre-diabetics shouldn't be taking insulin. U should take it only when u need to. I do think it will cause a vicious circle at some stage though and the real problem needs to be addressed.
John, don't you find something fishy in prescribing insulin/insulin enhancing medicines to persons who tends to get IR before or after medications? Btw, if anyone on medications, has persistant high BS with IR symptoms--can/should he sometimes discontinue the medication for better control or not?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Like I said, there is no way a Dr. will prescribe insulin for people who don't have IR already.
It is not advisable to dicontinue insulin when u have IR without taking other appropriate measures to counteract it first!
It is not advisable to dicontinue insulin when u have IR without taking other appropriate measures to counteract it first!
It is ok, but to continue induced higher insulin levels is also very dangerous. You said that in case of very low level of actual insulin or available insulin(due to IR)--it will lead to fat gain. Fat gain can lead to CV & heart diseases as in hyperinsulinemia. It is ,therefore, very important to monotor & maintain proper level of insulin in blood as its both sides will be dangerous. It also looks that persistance or uncontrol of BS & high lipids can mostly be due to excess insulin/IR in blood.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
There is nothing directly wrong per se with high levels of insulin! (but lets not get started on anti-ageing theories just yet)
It is easier to just say: very low levels of available insulin
Fat gain can be caused by low available insulin but diet is important too. It is not a simple loop as I've already said.
But will it not lead to insulin resistance.John Connellan said:There is nothing directly wrong per se with high levels of insulin! (but lets not get started on anti-ageing theories just yet)
It is easier to just say: very low levels of available insulin
I mean very low levels of available insulin due to insulin resistance.
It is ok, diet is another consideration. But we are discussing here just diabetic conditions. Will low available insulin due to IR not lead to fat/lipids gain>>central obesity>>HBP>>CV/heart diseases. It can be just a case of Syndrome X or hyperinsulinemia.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Yes indirectly it is dangerous as it causes IR but insulin is not toxic or anything. People with low susceptibility to IR have nothing ot fear about slightly higher insulin levels.
The only thing that is dangerous is availability of insulin. There aren't TWO dangers here, know what I mean?
Like I said, insulin increases metabolism but makes u hungry. Food is the important factor
Yes, I got the point about low availability of insulin. But there can be other danger if insulin could not be used properly due to IR ( means it is available low to the system due to IR). Btw, can the excess insulin if present in blood due to IR--will also make a person hungry & enhance pepsin & stomach acid secretion?
But there can be other danger if insulin could not be used properly due to IR ( means it is available low to the system due to IR). Btw, can the excess insulin if present in blood due to IR--will also make a person hungry & enhance pepsin & stomach acid secretion?John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:Yes, I got the point about low availability of insulin.
No, don't u see that thats low availability too?! U just said it yourself!
No, like I said, there is nothing wrong with insulin itself. It is merely a harmless messenger hormone which cannot affect the body by being in the blood alone.
John, sorry I could not understand your replies. Can you bit clear it for me.John Connellan said:
Furthur there is another point: whether so called insulin resistance is due to excess exposure of insulin to the target cells or due to excess exposure of gulucose to the cells? I mean what trigger the cells to cause IR condition?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
The hormone insulin is benign. it cannot do anything in the blood stream. It must get into cells to exert its effect. IR is where it can't do this.
IR is caused by over exposure with insulin. Insulin levels depend on glucose levels. Is that clearer? Now u can formulate some more mad ideas
John Connellan said:
Sorry to make you
. But wouldn't higher insulin in blood will increase pepsin & so stomach acidity level leading to hunger? It is bit confusing because if IR is caused by over exposure with insulin in blood then the whole prescription for insulin enhancement by oral medicines & injected insulin to diabetic patients with IR will become bit doubtful. We may have to check it by diet reduction and induced insulin reduction esp. in IDDM patients with IR.IR is caused by over exposure with insulin. Insulin levels depend on glucose levels. Is that clearer? Now u can formulate some more mad ideas
John, can it also be possible that some patients declared as diabetic due to insulin defeciency (common), may actually gets high BS by defects of fat store conversion, Glucagon, Epinephrine, Cortisol, and Growth hormone? Persistance high BS & weight loss can be due to these defects. IS it right?