Cephalic phase
- Thread starter Kumar
- Start date
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Remember, diabetes is a bad thing. Insulin resistance is a bad thing. Obesity is a bada thing. They are all linked. When insulin doesn't work (if u are not producing enough or are resistant to it) then u will gain weight. If u inject urself with insulin then u will lose weight (a very simple description just for u 
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)John, sorry, but is it not bit contradictory?John Connellan said:When insulin doesn't work (if u are not producing enough or are resistant to it) then u will gain weight. If u inject urself with insulin then u will lose weight (a very simple description just for u
Insulin shortage: means we are neither producing the required quantity nor enhancing it or taking it as injected insulin.
Insulin Resistance: Insulin is not working properly(may be due to its excess quantity present) inspite it is present in proper/excess quantity either secreted or by injected insulin.
Will we not loose weight, only in case of Insulin shortage? Moreover, the gain in weight can also be due to gain of water not just fats.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Not really!
Yes.
Ur having trouble understanding what resistance is. When there is continually high insulin levels in the body, cells change so that insulin is not effective anymore (because there was way too much in the first place). Sometimes the body over does this and any of the normal levels of insulin just won't work. This is where u need an injection on top of the body's insulin to get the cells to respond to insulin again.
We will lose weight whenever insulin is working (to put it simply).
No. Insulin does not affect water content of cells.
John, these are expert comments:
""There are only 2 types of diabetes as you have stated. Most people with type 2 either gain weight or stay the same. Weight loss occurs with decreased calories or increased exercise. If someone is dignosed with type 2 and losses weight without trying one must consider that the person actually has type 1 diabetes. I hope that this helps.""
In reply to question:-
"It is seen than diabetics are only classified for two
types i.e.Type I & Type II. But in Type II some people gain weight
and other looses the same during the same period after the first
finding. So how we can classify these two factors. I feel as
under;
Type II(a) (Weight not loosing or gaining); Diabetes with Hypergly
Insulin Resistance & Hyperinsulinemia.
Type II(b) (Weight Loosing); Diabetes with Hyperglycemia and
Hypoinsulinemia.
Since,Hyperglycemia (too much glucose in the blood) and
hyperinsulinemia (too much insulin in the blood) in a fasting
individual indicates a person may have insulin resistance they may
be of Type II(a) as described by me and this condition should be
able to reverse on ractifying the Insulin resistanc only and so
should not be at all called a diabetic disease.
Can you please comment and clarify this aspect."
""There are only 2 types of diabetes as you have stated. Most people with type 2 either gain weight or stay the same. Weight loss occurs with decreased calories or increased exercise. If someone is dignosed with type 2 and losses weight without trying one must consider that the person actually has type 1 diabetes. I hope that this helps.""
In reply to question:-
"It is seen than diabetics are only classified for two
types i.e.Type I & Type II. But in Type II some people gain weight
and other looses the same during the same period after the first
finding. So how we can classify these two factors. I feel as
under;
Type II(a) (Weight not loosing or gaining); Diabetes with Hypergly
Insulin Resistance & Hyperinsulinemia.
Type II(b) (Weight Loosing); Diabetes with Hyperglycemia and
Hypoinsulinemia.
Since,Hyperglycemia (too much glucose in the blood) and
hyperinsulinemia (too much insulin in the blood) in a fasting
individual indicates a person may have insulin resistance they may
be of Type II(a) as described by me and this condition should be
able to reverse on ractifying the Insulin resistanc only and so
should not be at all called a diabetic disease.
Can you please comment and clarify this aspect."
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Actually I just read that a lack of insulin also prevents the development of fatty deposits in the body and fatty acids are excreted in the urine (which is why diabetes patients are prone to kidney disease etc.). It IS possible to "falsely control weight" through insulin!
John, I think you considered weight gain when insulin is not working/not there in consideration of excess sugar is converted in fats & weght loss when insulin is working because sugar will not convert into fats. Is it ok? However I am finding some connection of unintentional quick weight gain or loss with partial metabolism of carbohydrates which may show oedma ( pitting type) in legs (pre-tibial type). Will partial metabolized carbs. not hold/retain water (end product of carbs metabolism is CO2 & water).
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Actually I do not believe that much of the sugar is converted into fat but it actually stays in the blood stream leading to hyperglycaemia. Fats are mainly formed by another insulin-related process.
Can u explain what partial carb metabolism is? Also is it weight gain or weight loss? One process cannot account for both. There is obviously something else affecting it.
I can't say exactly but I doubt that gulucose matobolism may somewhere resist at at pyruvate level OR at its Anaerobic glycolysis point where pyruvate is reduced to a compound called lactate. This single reaction occurs in the absence of oxygen (anaerobically) and is ideally suited to utilisation in heavily exercising muscle where oxygen supply is often insufficient to meet the demands of aerobic metabolism. Oxygen defficiency seems to play an important role in lactate or pyruvate accumulation. Non conversion of gulucose into its final metabolism level i.e. CO2 & water seems to be a reason of unintentional quick weight gain & fluid retention. BY quick weight loss I mean that, if this condition is corrected & if gulucose is completely metabolized then the quick weight loss can be possible if fluid (lactate or pyruvate) is already accumulated in system. I think body system tries to hold partial metabolized gulucose in certain quantity.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
But unless there was water retention or some other process, I can't imagine glucose stroage leading to significant weight gain! Also, isn't it impossible to store glucose? The reason we use fat and breakdown muscle in starvation times? Isn't excess glucose excreted?
In some uncontrolled diabetic patients, BS level can still remains high inspite they loose heavily in urine. It may mean that body system holds some sugar with water in its partial metabolized state. It may be a normal process or due to imbalance in available insulin( natural or medicated). We can just assume that whether body tries to hold partial metabolized gulucose due to excess insulin present but not used due to IR. You know sometimes health clubs do technoques which causes quick weght loss. I think it can be due to just water loss(not fats as it may take long time). Pls also tries to relate excess insulin(may be by medication) as a reason for above type of water/gulucose retention. Don't a person looses sugar in urine more heavily in non medicated times?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
When u lose more sugar in urine in non-medicated times, this means that the blood level is too high. When u inject insulin, the sugar is taken into cells and used, the blood level returns to normal and there is no loss in urine.
It is ok, but do we lose all excess sugar in urine in non-medicated times or some excess sugar after keeping somewhat higher blood gulucose? Is it not noted that BS do not increase continiously & cease to increase furthur at some point in non-medicated diabetic patients? Btw, is there any relation of weight change & sugar is taken into cells and used OR sugar is not taken into cells and not used but accumulated or lost in urine?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Glucose is only partially released in the urine when it becomes excessively high. At this stage is it almost certain u have diabetes. Other times it can rise (and might contribute to diabetes later) but is not excreted.
I would imagine that sugar which is stored HAS to be stored in fatty cells so some weight gain asoociated with increased fat should occur.
I would imagine that sugar which is stored HAS to be stored in fatty cells so some weight gain asoociated with increased fat should occur.
Does it not indicate that our body tends to hold a certain(fixed or variable?) higher level of sugar in system & releases in urine which is higher than this level? It is mentioned that when insulin do not work or short-- it create a starvation type effect which leads to body using fats in place of sugar. What do you mean by stored in fatty cells?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Yes, the state of this higher level is called hyperglycaemia.
There is definitely a starvation type effect but Im not so sure about breaking down fats instead. Maybe u could be right however.
Fatty cells constitute adipose tissue.
Hypoglycaemia is said to encourage pepsin & so stomach acid. It is just like a fasting effect. However when a diabetic patient who can not either use insulin properly or short of it-- can get higher levels of stomach acidity most of the times leading to eat again and again. Do you know it it is ok or not?
Btw, you have any idea-- whether imbalances in stomach acidity or intestinal alkalinty can effect blood pH?
Btw, you have any idea-- whether imbalances in stomach acidity or intestinal alkalinty can effect blood pH?
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Kumar said:
Hypoglycaemia is not Hyperglycaemia. It is the opposite.
I have no idea really
It is ok. Actually it was other question. I read that while doing stomach acid test, stomach acid/pepsin secretion is enhanced by giving insulin>>> a fasting type/hypo...effect.
"Another test involves insulin-induced hypoglycemia. Enough insulin is given subcutaneously or intravenously to cause the blood sugar to decrease, which causes the vagus nerve to stimulate the release of gastrin. After a short time, the stomach contents are removed and analyzed."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003883.htm
"Another test involves insulin-induced hypoglycemia. Enough insulin is given subcutaneously or intravenously to cause the blood sugar to decrease, which causes the vagus nerve to stimulate the release of gastrin. After a short time, the stomach contents are removed and analyzed."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003883.htm
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John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
And I'm sure that overall, the person will feel hungry as his/her brain will receive signals from the stomach nerves.