Capital Punishment for Gays?

[Brian Foley]

The story the thread presented was of individual MPs expressing their concern for capital punishment for sexual behavior

Oops. Too late now.

Please take it in context I was referring to quadraphonics description as below .

The statements of individual MPs do not amount to any kind of official stance of the Government of Britain. General persecution of gays in Iran does not, by itself, amount to proof that any particular individual is going to be tortured or executed. Admitting every Iranian homosexual who wanted asylum in Britain is not a feasible policy, regardless of what the law is. Which is to say that said law will likely be changed, if it is determined to apply to Iranian homosexuals.

The story the thread presented was of individual MPs expressing their concern for capital punishment for sexual behavior

On page 3 I was quite clear .

My argument is very clear if ,as the original thread news story is concerned , that Members of Parliament representing the British Government are taking Iran to task over its torture and execution of Homosexuals then why does this same Government refuse to acknowledge Homosexual Iranian applicants for asylum protection on the basis that such persecution is non existent .

Oh, and one more thing: Britain's seeming two-facedness on deportation has nothing to do with the repeated statements of Ahmendinejidad or his ministers regarding the judicial murder of homosexuals. Apparently, though, you're not overly concerned with their fate, since most of what you seem to be doing is trolling.

Whence why I am asking you these questions .

nor the wiki entry

Yes I did , I read the Wiki article and investigated this item .

As of 2007, teenagers accused of engaging in sodomy have been executed, although the official rationale for the hangings is debated.

And I commented below .

And concerning the much publicized executions of 2 youngsters for homosexual sex , was really propaganda

Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni
Controversy
Within weeks of the hangings, both reporters and human rights organizations--while continuing to condemn the brutality of the hangings--began to produce more nuanced accounts. Paula Ettelbrick, executive director of the International Gay & Lesbian Human Rights Commission, told the press, “It was not a gay case”[14]
The U.S. periodical The Nation published a lengthy investigation of the story. It criticized the role of Peter Tatchell and Outrage! in spreading the belief the executed youths were gay before it had examined the evidence. The article concluded that, given Peter Tatchell's "recent statements, it seems likely that his ideological disposition caused him to look past or dismiss information that cast doubt on the 'gay teenagers' story." [1]

So why should I accept the Wiki article as accurate Geoff when they post as sources that have clearly been debunked as inaccurate , deliberately deceptive and politically charged by Human Rights and Gay Groups ?

You didn't explain Ahmendinejidad's comments

nor those of his minister

Because you clearly made this statement here :

Oh, and one more thing: Britain's seeming two-facedness on deportation has nothing to do with the repeated statements of Ahmendinejidad or his ministers regarding the judicial murder of homosexuals. .

Wherein those statements quoted by you does Ahmendinejidad or his Minister state that currently Iran is torturing and executing persons convicted of Homosexual acts ?

 

[GeoffP]

Debunked? Hardly. You would require the "debunking" of several newspaper articles and independent translations - statements by ministers and Ahmendinejidad himself.

 

[Brian Foley]

Debunked?

Yes debunked , your wiki article used the story of supposedly 2 teenagers hung for being gay , it was a Lie .

Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni
“It was not a gay case”

I have that Britain will not deport

The International Obligation of Non-Refoulement
1.No State Party shall expel, return (“ refouler” ) or extradite a person
to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that
he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.

Nor extradite

Extradition Act 2003
(1) The Secretary of State must not order a person’s extradition to a category 2 territory if he could be, will be or has been sentenced to death for the offence concerned in the category 2 territory.

Persons to nations that will face toryure or capital punishment .

Comment: Stop deporting gay refugees back to Iran
The Home Office's recent refusal of asylum for 35-year-old gay Iranian, Saeed Faraji, on the grounds that he could not prove that homosexuals are subjected to "torture, inhumane or degrading treatment" in Iran, despite his sworn statement, further establishes this.

I have shown that Britain does not vbelieve Iran is persecuting Gays .

Sweden "must stop sending homosexuals back to Iran"
Sweden's asylum policy makes it illegal for the government to deport any person "who due to her/his sex or homosexuality experiences a well-founded fear of persecution", but authorities have claimed that the death penalty for sodomy is no longer in force, allowing it to send gay asylum seekers back to Iran.

I have shown that Sweden is also of a like mind claiming that capital punishment for Homosexual acts is redundant .

Your failure to address my points and answer my 3 questions leads me to conclude that I won this encounter .

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Your failure to address my points and answer my 3 questions leads me to conclude that I won this encounter .

Addressing your points take a degree of mental contortions, that requires a superior intellect, a intellect missing from your points in the first place.

 

[Brian Foley]

Addressing your points take a degree of mental contortions, that requires a superior intellect, a intellect missing from your points in the first place.

By all means if you wish to take up the reins of where Geoff scampered I will go head to head with you on this debate , or , as I suspect , your just chicken .

 

[GeoffP]

Well, we seem to be at an impasse.

Brian has exceeded his knowledge in this arena - which is not unusual - but because of our history will not accept the obvious explanation from me, and no one comes by whom he trusts that might make things clearer for him. Buffalo, I advise you not to bother.

 

[sandy]

Addressing your points take a degree of mental contortions, that requires a superior intellect, a intellect missing from your points in the first place.

:bravo:

 

[Buffalo Roam]

By all means if you wish to take up the reins of where Geoff scampered I will go head to head with you on this debate , or , as I suspect , your just chicken .

Why? facts and circumstance prove GeoffP correct.

 

[vincent]

Here the British Government claims they challenge the Iranians on this issue of Gay Rights and executions .


This is from Octobers edition of Gay News in Britain .



So why is Britain deporting Gays back to Iran ?

On one hand we have the British Government state clearly Gays are being executed , and then clearly on the other hand the British Government claims that Gays cannot prove they are indeed mistreated .

This is more anti-Iranian Bullshit for the gullible SHEEPLE to digest .

Brian the UK gov. has many departments & thousand of civil servants speaking for them, thats why one department say on human rights say one thing & the immigration say another, the job of immigration is to deport liars or people who cant prove there case for staying in the uk.

Britain there are 1 billion muslims in the world, its a fact that 1 out of 12 people is gay, & as gay sex is outlawed in all muslim countries, do you feel the british government is obligated to take all these muslim gays in, because of there stance here, get real brian?


As for the iranian gov. or puppets in black frocks they all speak as one they all scream death to gays, stone them.

 

[vincent]

Yes debunked , your wiki article used the story of supposedly 2 teenagers hung for being gay , it was a Lie .

I have that Britain will not deport

Nor extradite

Persons to nations that will face toryure or capital punishment .

I have shown that Britain does not vbelieve Iran is persecuting Gays .

I have shown that Sweden is also of a like mind claiming that capital punishment for Homosexual acts is redundant .

Your failure to address my points and answer my 3 questions leads me to conclude that I won this encounter .

Your rational is ludicrous, because the uk is against gays being mistreated in iran or all muslim countries, we are obligated to be swamped by hundreds of millions of gay muslims in the uk, because they can all prove they will be victimised in there own countries, all muslim gays are victimised.

Immigration say whatever they want, the foreign office say whatever they want, brian the uk is not china or iran we are not a regime that speaks as one.

 

[GeoffP]

The immigration argument seems the likeliest - thousands of people could quite easily claim they were gay, allowing uncontrolled refugee-seeking. While I do support allowing Iranian homosexuals refugee status, how would it be proven, exactly? (Frankly, this goes for a few issues, although at least religion would have documentation in some cases.)

 

[Orleander]

.. While I do support allowing Iranian homosexuals refugee status, how would it be proven, exactly? ...

what about women? You can pretend to be straight. You can't pretend to be male.

 

[GeoffP]

Hmmm...good point, Orle. Yeah, I think that would also apply.

 

[Brian Foley]

Addressing your points take a degree of mental contortions, that requires a superior intellect, a intellect missing from your points in the first place.

:bravo:

On one hand we have the Israeli Jew who masquerades as a Christian constructing a thread sympathetic to Gays , yet prior to that her opinions on Homosexuality were.

We have voted on this issue ad nauseum and it will not pass. Americans do not want homosexual marriage. Most find it disgusting.

I don't buy that anyone is born homosexual. It's a choice. A disgusting choice.

God says that if a man lies with another man, he shall be put to death. From the very beginning, God has revealed that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered, unhealthy, and mortally sinful.

My God persons with psychiatric disorders are invading Sciforums !!!
Next we have Buffalo making this claim of 100 million tonnes

US admits its war against the Mid East is the cause of terror
Hay Foley total weapon stock pile, not WMD were 100million tons!

Then accuses me later of making the claim .

Dedication To The Israeli Army
No Foley it was you who claimed the 100 million ton figure.

The immigration argument seems the likeliest -

Likeliest ! Yet he offers no proof , his own opinion , No Geoff that is the most convenient argument for you , seeing you cannot , satisfactorily explain to me the situation .

thousands of people could quite easily claim they were gay, allowing uncontrolled refugee-seeking. While I do support allowing Iranian homosexuals refugee status, how would it be proven, exactly? (Frankly, this goes for a few issues, although at least religion would have documentation in some cases.)

This Gay was fully certified and recognised as Gay by the Home Office as he had a Gay partner in Britain :

Comment: Stop deporting gay refugees back to Iran
The person I fell in love with and want to form a civil partnership with happens to fall within this category.
Despite being British myself I have for the past three years lived a life of uncertainty, despair and fear that he will be deported and returned back to Iran, where he is certain to face the gallows, along with myself, as I have no intentions of being parted from him.Executed just for being gay.

So why is he being deported to face execution ?

Brian the UK gov. has many departments & thousand of civil servants speaking for them, thats why one department say on human rights say one thing & the immigration say another, the job of immigration is to deport liars or people who cant prove there case for staying in the uk.

I have already shown how with the British Extradition Act and the The International Obligation of Non-Refoulement that Britain will not deport nor Extradite any person to a country where they will face capital punishment . Thats it and no British Department can circumvent that law , so why is this happening if Iran kills Gays ?

The Home Office's recent refusal of asylum for 35-year-old gay Iranian, Saeed Faraji, on the grounds that he could not prove that homosexuals are subjected to "torture, inhumane or degrading treatment" in Iran, despite his sworn statement, further establishes this.

 

[vincent]

I have already shown how with the British Extradition Act and the The International Obligation of Non-Refoulement that Britain will not deport nor Extradite any person to a country where they will face capital punishment . Thats it and no British Department can circumvent that law , so why is this happening if Iran kills Gays ?

What they did brian a year or so ago, is come out with this fabulous idea of signing a memo of understanding with various despot countries that all these victimised gay muslims belong & also those muslim clerics burning uk flags in london every day, while claiming millions in benefits, this memo of understanding basically means the country of origin of these jolly folks promise to be extra nice to them, & someone from our various overseas embassy has the right to pop by at any time in his bowler hat & brolly intact, to check on one of our deportees for a cup a tea & to see if there ressetling nicley, into there hostile new enviroment, its all legal brian.

I am surprised you forgot about this brian?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

On one hand we have the Israeli Jew who masquerades as a Christian constructing a thread sympathetic to Gays , yet prior to that her opinions on Homosexuality were.
My God persons with psychiatric disorders are invading Sciforums !!!
Next we have Buffalo making this claim of 100 million tonnes
Then accuses me later of making the claim .



Likeliest ! Yet he offers no proof , his own opinion , No Geoff that is the most convenient argument for you , seeing you cannot , satisfactorily explain to me the situation .

This Gay was fully certified and recognised as Gay by the Home Office as he had a Gay partner in Britain :
So why is he being deported to face execution ?
I have already shown how with the British Extradition Act and the The International Obligation of Non-Refoulement that Britain will not deport nor Extradite any person to a country where they will face capital punishment . Thats it and no British Department can circumvent that law , so why is this happening if Iran kills Gays ?

Addressing your points take a degree of mental contortions, that requires a superior intellect, a intellect missing from your points in the first place.

Put another layer of tin foil on.

 

[GeoffP]

I just wanted to comment on this level of bizarreness, heretofore unseen on the forum.

On one hand we have the Israeli Jew who masquerades as a Christian constructing a thread sympathetic to Gays , yet prior to that her opinions on Homosexuality were.

??

Likeliest ! Yet he offers no proof , his own opinion , No Geoff that is the most convenient argument for you , seeing you cannot , satisfactorily explain to me the situation .

The explanation fits the facts quite well, but let's move on, keeping in mind Foley's word "proof":

This Gay was fully certified and recognised as Gay by the Home Office as he had a Gay partner in Britain :

Oh? He had his Gay Certificate then, cosigned by the heads of four GLBT organizations and his mum? Had his Gay Membership Card and everything, did he? Checked off the box "gay" on his passport, eh? Right.

The point being: they can't tell, and they don't want to tell, so they can deport gay people back. They're in violation of their own laws.

 

[S.A.M.]

Sympathy in the Western governments usually stops at the front door. This is hardly news.

 

[quadraphonics]

Sympathy in the Western governments usually stops at the front door.

Unlike sympathy in non-Western governments, which doesn't even extend into the front yard.

 

[S.A.M.]

Unlike sympathy in non-Western governments, which doesn't even extend into the front yard.

Touche. But the difference being, they don't pretend to be something they are not.