Capital Punishment for Gays?

The statements of individual MPs do not amount to any kind of official stance of the Government of Britain. General persecution of gays in Iran does not, by itself, amount to proof that any particular individual is going to be tortured or executed.
The story the thread presented was of individual MPs expressing their concern for capital punishment for sexual behavior . The Foreign Office as shown has released information which clearly recognizes that Iran does indeed in their opinion execute Homosexuals , and that is the official standard policy of the Goverment .
Admitting every Iranian homosexual who wanted asylum in Britain is not a feasible policy, regardless of what the law is. Which is to say that said law will likely be changed, if it is determined to apply to Iranian homosexuals.
Of course every application should be viewed in strict terms with stringent requirements , the UK even the EU is not a bottomless pit to absorb every asylum and refuge seeker . The cases I presented from the UK's Pink News were of verifiable cases where the Iranians in question had Gay partners , the authour's partner was the subject of deportation .
All laws are interpretations, and all laws are constantly being reinterpretted. It is true, however, that your interpretation is not the law of Britain. It is the interpretation of the various judges serving on British courts that is the law of Britain.
In this case the 2 laws I gave were official safeguards which specifically prevent deportation or extradition to face the death penalty .
You haven't defined the terms "asylum seekers," "refugees," "criminals," "deported," "face" or "torture." There's a reason that the British legal code spends countless pages carefully defining these things, and that, even then, it must be supplemented with countless opinions from case law in order to understand what this law actually amounts to. People can, and do, spend entire careers just on this one issue, which is pretty strong proof that it's not as straightforward as you think it is.
It is clear cut , if the crime this individual has committed is a capital punishment case then he can not be extradited . If the Refugee or Asylum Seeker would face a trial that could or would end with a verdict of the death penalty this individual cannot be deported . In fact the law is strict and Britain will only extradite individuals to America on the provision and guarantee that the individual will not stand trial that wll lead to a verdict of capital punishment .
U.S.-U.K. Extradition Treaty
Article 7
Capital Punishment. Under Article 7, when an offense for which extradition is sought is punishable by death under the laws in the Requesting State but not under the laws in the Requested State, the executive authority in the Requested State may refuse extradition unless the Requesting State provides an assurance that the death penalty will not be imposed or, if imposed, will not be carried out.
This means it is inviolable law within Britain , so if the applicant as with Gay Iranians meets the criteria he cannot be deported , yet he is .
It's difficult to determine concretely. Their judicial system is even more convoluted than Western ones, and there is often a large gap in Iran between the official rulings of the central judiciary and what ends up happening at the local level, especially in the rural areas.
Sweden has the most advanced human rights intelligence gathering on the Globe that is undeniable , for Sweden to declare that capital punishment for homosexual activity in Iran is now redundant says a lot .
On top of all of this, reliable information is difficult to come by because of the limited access journalists and others have to Iran.
Journalist access by Non-Americans is completely almost unfettered , CNN and the BBC has representation .
Foreign press and media department
Nearly 70 news agencies have already offices in Iran and in sending news and information to their respective countries.
Basically any distortion of the truth comes from non-Iranian sources .
Similarly, all the torture tends to happen behind closed doors, and to people they don't plan to release any time soon, so it's difficult to verify.
Even in America , Guantanamo Bay , however , America is seen as a bastion of freedom and justice , sought why I am arguing this thread to get some reason out of this current sanctimonious anti-Iranian binge .
 
All you and others have given me is your opinions on the Home and Foreign office no hard evidence .

No, no, no, Brian. If you don't understand something then please don't blather on, for the love of God. It isn't opinion that MPs are free to use their conscience within reasonable party bounds, so don't pretend that they're robots or something. MPs and the bureaucracy of government are two very different things. I'm honestly of the opinion that you really don't know what 'hard evidence' is.

Afterall Geoff the original source story is titled :
Gays should be hanged, says Iranian minister
Note "should be" then continues

Ah, of course. He was "just saying". :rolleyes:

He is not saying they are being executed and tortured is he , he is expressing his personal opinion here 5that they should , is he not ?

But they are. So he should be happy. Not so? :confused:

Seems he was executed for kidnap and murder not homosexuality .

Again rape and kidnapping not homosexuality , so it

Haw! The king of the accusation of "trumped-up charges" has just fallen and broken his crown.

I am no great fan of this Iranian Islamic government I concede they are are a bunch of medieval pricks and need to be removed and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they are executing Gays .

Sure you do. That's why you keep questioning the obvious.

Brian, if you don't understand something, I reiterate: leave it alone.
 
No, no, no, Brian. If you don't understand something then please don't blather on, for the love of God.
Ah yes once again the old GeoffP merry-go-round stall tactic , when faced with the prospect of having to admit that I am right , avoid answering straightforward questions , spend time with semantics to confuse the debate and hopefully It will be dropped . What absolute waste of time you are .
However I will not drop it I asked you 3 questions in my last answer to you they were :
So I just want to know Geoff why should I accept this story as valid .
Sweden "must stop sending homosexuals back to Iran"
Sweden's asylum policy makes it illegal for the government to deport any person "who due to her/his sex or homosexuality experiences a well-founded fear of persecution", but authorities have claimed that the death penalty for sodomy is no longer in force, allowing it to send gay asylum seekers back to Iran.
So is the Swedish government ,which is known for human rights defending , Lying ? Is it true is the death penalty for sodomy no longer in force ?
But understandably other than your assurances that this is the current state of Iranian law I would like a satisfactory answer from you . Can you prove that Iran has legislation that outlaws Homosexuality in Iran and those individuals apprehended under Iranian law for practicing Homosexuality are punishable by extensive prison sentences , torture such as birching and liable for capital punishment on certain cases ?
Any questions ?:)
 
Apparently this "god" or "allah" character cares an awful lot about what men do with their penises, as if with his infinite capabilities he doesn't have anything more important to do like say, curing child leukaemia or something.
Apparently though, despite his intolerance of gays, he is apparently unable, or unwilling to do anything about it, and needs his followers to take action for him.
This includes authorities in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the Westboro Baptist Church, who recently got successfully sued for over $10 million USD, for complaining about gays.
Also, doesn't this contradict his "grand plan"?

Who here believes in god/allah, also believes homosexuality is wrong, and can answer these questions?
Frankly, I'm more concerned when I'll next have sex with an attractive female.
Any ladies here know the definition of an "Aussie kiss"??
 
Ah yes once again the old GeoffP merry-go-round stall tactic , when faced with the prospect of having to admit that I am right , avoid answering straightforward questions , spend time with semantics to confuse the debate and hopefully It will be dropped . What absolute waste of time you are .

Well, now that's odd. In your touching parting PM to me last year, you said I was the "only poster who you respected on SciForums". How have I lost your heart, Brian? :D

I reiterate: learn the difference between the personal accusations of an individual MP (which happen merely to be right) and bureaucratic status. They are not the same thing.
 
Here, Bri-Bri:

Since the Iranian Revolution of 1979, LGBT and human rights groups have cited a lack of tolerance toward the gay community, in part due to institutionalized assertions that no branch of the community exists in Iran.[1] Officially, homosexuality remains a crime under the country's theocratic Islamic government. In fact, all types of sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage remain forbidden, although it is debated to what extent these laws are enforced.

...

Legal status
Since the 1979 Iranian revolution, the legal code has been based on a conservative interpretation of Islamic Shari'a law. All sexual relations that occur outside of a traditional, heterosexual marriage (i.e. sodomy or adultery) are illegal and no legal distinction is made between consensual or non-consensual sexual activity. Homosexual relations that occur between consenting adults in private are a crime and carry a maximum punishment of death. Teenage boys as young as fifteen are eligible for the death penalty (see Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni). Approved by the Islamic Republic Parliament on 30/7/1991 and finally ratified by the High Expediency Council on 28/11/1991, articles 108 through 140 distinctly talk about homosexuality and its punishments in detail [8]:

Male homosexuality
Sodomy is a crime for which both partners can be punished by death, if the participants are adults, of sound mind and consenting; the method of execution is for the Shari'a judge to decide. A non-adult who engages in consensual sodomy is subject to a punishment of 74 lashes. (Articles 108 to 113) Sodomy is proved either if a person confesses four times to having committed sodomy or by the testimony of four righteous men. Testimony of women alone or together with a man does not prove sodomy. (Articles 114 to 119). "Tafhiz" (the rubbing of the thighs or buttocks) and the like committed by two men is punished by 100 lashes. On the fourth occasion, the punishment is death. (Articles 121 and 122). If two men "stand naked under one cover without any necessity", both are punished with up to 99 lashes; if a man "kisses another with lust" the punishment is 60 lashes. (Articles 123 and 124). If sodomy, or the lesser crimes referred to above, are proved by confession, and the person concerned repents, the Shari'a judge may request that he be pardoned. If a person who has committed the lesser crimes referred to above repents before the giving of testimony by the witnesses, the punishment is quashed. (Articles 125 and 126).

As of 2007, teenagers accused of engaging in sodomy have been executed, although the official rationale for the hangings is debated.


[edit] Female homosexuality
The punishment for female homosexuality involving persons who are mature, of sound mind, and consenting, is 100 lashes. If the act is repeated three times and punishment is enforced each time, the death sentence will apply on the fourth occasion. (Articles 127, 129, 130) The ways of proving lesbianism in court are the same as for male homosexuality. (Article 128) Non-Muslim and Muslim alike are subject to punishment (Article 130) The rules for the quashing of sentences, or for pardoning, are the same as for the lesser male homosexual offences (Articles 132 and 133) Women who "stand naked under one cover without necessity" and are not relatives are punished by up to 100 lashes. (Article 134)


[edit] Transsexuals
Iran has between 15,000 and 20,000 transsexuals, according to official statistics, although unofficial estimates put the figure at up to 150,000. Iran carries out more gender change operations than any country in the world besides Thailand. Sex changes have been legal since the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, spiritual leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution, passed a fatwa authorising them nearly 25 years ago. Whereas homosexuality is considered a sin, transsexuality is categorised as an illness subject to cure. While the government seeks to keep its approval quiet, state support has increased since Ahmadinejad took office in 2005. His government has begun providing grants of £2,250 for operations and further funding for hormone therapy. It is also proposing loans of up to £2,750 to allow those undergoing surgery to start their own businesses.[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_iran

Read the article, please.
 
Wow, so much emotion on behalf of the gays in Iran.

Very touching. Must needs send a liberating force asap, so they can be as happy as the 4 million plus people next door.
 
Sam, simply because you don't particularly care about gay rights in Iran doesn't mean no one else does.

Please confine your homophobia to another forum.
 
Have your cake and eat it too?

(Washington, D.C., January 25, 2006) - In a reversal of policy, the United States on Monday backed an Iranian initiative to deny United Nations consultative status to organizations working to protect the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people. In a letter to Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, a coalition of 40 organizations, led by the Human Rights Campaign, Human Rights Watch, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, called for an explanation of the vote which aligned the United States with governments that have long repressed the rights of sexual minorities.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/25/iran12535.htm

What a load of complete and utter BS.
 
And this is related to the topic of discussion how?

Wait: it confirms the attitude of Iran towards homosexuals? Ah, I see. Thanks, Sam. There's no denying it now, Brian.
 
I see your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.

Some more?

In May 2005, the International Lesbian and Gay Association, which is based in Brussels, and the Danish gay rights group Landsforeningen for Bøsser og Lesbiske (LBL) applied for consultative status with the UN Economic and Social Council. Consultative status is the only official means by which non-governmental organizations (NGOs) around the world can influence and participate in discussions among member states at the United Nations. Nearly 3,000 groups enjoy this status.

States opposed to the two groups’ applications moved to have them summarily dismissed, an almost unprecedented move at the UN, where organizations are ordinarily allowed to state their cases. The U.S. abstained on a vote which would have allowed the debate to continue and the groups to be heard. It then voted to reject the applications.
 
Maybe you could explain how that is? That is, if your damaged logical processes are up to the strain today.
 
Maybe you could explain how that is? That is, if your damaged logical processes are up to the strain today.

Try this

The U.S. has reversed position since 2002, when it voted to support the International Lesbian and Gay Association’s request to have its status reviewed. Officials gave no explanation for the change.

“It is deeply disturbing that, at the UN, the United States has shifted gears toward an aggressive stance against human rights for LGBT people,” said Paula Ettelbrick, executive director of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission. “Unfortunately, denying LGBT groups a voice and a presence within the United Nations – the world's most important human rights institution – is fully in keeping with the U.S.’s assault on basic human rights principles worldwide.”

In voting against the applications to the NGO committee, the U.S. was joined by Cameroon, China, Cuba, Iran, Pakistan, the Russian Federation, Senegal, Sudan, and Zimbabwe. Votes in favor of consultative status came from Chile, France, Germany, Peru, and Romania. Colombia, India, and Turkey abstained, while Côte d'Ivoire was absent.

“It is an absolute outrage that the United States has chosen to align itself with oppressive governments – all in an effort to smother the voices of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people around the world,” said Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. “It is deeply disturbing that the self-proclaimed ‘leader of the free world’ will ally with bigots at the drop of a hat to advance the right wing’s anti-gay agenda.”

If there is an outcry against LGBT rights in Iran, one needs only to look at who is sustaining the oppression. Combined with the restrictions on economy and education, also unilaterally imposed by the US, what measures do you see that will lead to any improvement in the status quo? What international pressure? For society to change, you need education and social and economic security, not a support for fundamentalism.

Otherwise, any issue that is debated is just so much muckraking.
 
Yes, the US has reversed position on having advisory boards from homosexuals at the UN.

While in its own right, unfair, please explain how the legal rights of homosexuals in Iran compares to this decision.

(I would suggest the word "abominably".)

"Restrictions on education"? Curious. Explanation. I thought Iranians were quite well educated.
 
Yes, the US has reversed position on having advisory boards from homosexuals at the UN.

While in its own right, unfair, please explain how the legal rights of homosexuals in Iran compares to this decision.

(I would suggest the word "abominably".)

"Restrictions on education"? Curious. Explanation. I thought Iranians were quite well educated.

1. It prevents any intervention of human rights groups at the international level, where diplomacy is often a balance that can be tilted to protect rights.

2. What was the position of homosexuals before the revolution? Sustaining the Iranian and other fundamentalism is a role in which the US revels; resulting in what I call the Law of Unintended Consequences.

3. Scientists are forbidden from collaborating in research with Iran
In response to the election of Iranian reformist President Mohammad Khatami, President Clinton eased sanctions on Iran. A debate in the US Congress on whether to allow the expiration of ILSA, which some legislators argued hindered bilateral relations, and others argued would be seen as a concession on an effective program, ended on August 5, 2001, with its renewal by the Congress and signing into law by President George W. Bush.[5] Furthermore, in January 2002, IEEE stripped Iranian members from full membership privileges and support of activities, and without notice, blocked Iranian members from accessing their e-mail accounts.[6] In February 2004, during the final year of the reformist era, the U.S. Department of the Treasury ruled against editing or publishing scientific manuscripts from Iran, and stated that U.S. scientists collaborating with Iranians could be prosecuted.[7] Khatami government could only manage to reduce the sanctions for some items like pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, caviar or Persian rugs, in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

4. Economic development is severely restricted

Pragmatist President Rafsanjani, a critic of President Ahmadinejad, says that he had tried to reduce tensions between Iran and the West, although his term was marked by some of the toughest sanctions against Iran. In April 1995, President Bill Clinton issued a total embargo on dealings with Iran, prohibiting all commercial and financial transactions with Iran. Trade with the U.S., which had been growing following the end of the Iran-Iraq war ended abruptly. [3]

The next year, the American Congress passed the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act of 1996 (ILSA) which threatened even non-U.S. countries making certain investments in Iran. Under ILSA, all foreign companies that provide investments over $20 million for the development of petroleum resources in Iran will be imposed two out of seven possible sanctions, by the U.S.

I wonder what the American response would be to a similar boycott of their policies.
 
Last edited:
1. It prevents any intervention of human rights groups at the international level, where diplomacy is often a balance that can be tilted to protect rights.

This would fit the classic definition of blah-blah speak.

2. What was the position of homosexuals before the revolution? Sustaining the Iranian and other fundamentalism is a role in which the US revels; resulting in what I call the Law of Unintended Consequences.

So now the Americans are responsible not merely for the historical accident of their seizure of power - which you yet identify as "Unindented" - but also of supporting them? And you also think the Americans are going to attack them. I see.

3. Scientists are forbidden from collaborating in research with Iran

....so? You think Iranian scientists would have any influence on policy in an islamic republic? Maybe, if they could prove Allah thought Wheaties were good for you, or that evolution was a crock.

4. Economic development is severely restricted

...which...means that...Iran must oppress homosexuals. Ok.

I wonder what the American response would be to a similar boycott of their policies.

Well, of course, they would immediately attack homosexuals.

I repost my question:

Yes, the US has reversed position on having advisory boards from homosexuals at the UN.

While in its own right, unfair, please explain how the legal rights of homosexuals in Iran compares to this decision.
 
Well, now that's odd. In your touching parting PM to me last year, you said I was the "only poster who you respected on SciForums". How have I lost your heart, Brian? :D
Odd I was informing you I was leaving whence why I would not be carrying on our current debates , I must turn you on .
Here, Bri-Bri:Read the article, please.
From Canadas Gay Fab Magazine an article which really expresses my concern about the true state of Gays in Iran .
“Islamo-fascists” are executing gay men, so why is Iran tolerating gay sex parties?
“I don’t believe that there is an active campaign of execution, punishment, going after gays, in Iran,” says Bhaman Kalbasi, 27, who fled to Canada five years ago after spending two months jailed and tortured for his pro-democracy activism.
And concerning the much publicized executions of 2 youngsters for homosexual sex , was really propaganda .
Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni
Controversy

Within weeks of the hangings, both reporters and human rights organizations--while continuing to condemn the brutality of the hangings--began to produce more nuanced accounts. Paula Ettelbrick, executive director of the International Gay & Lesbian Human Rights Commission, told the press, “It was not a gay case”[14]

The U.S. periodical The Nation published a lengthy investigation of the story. It criticized the role of Peter Tatchell and Outrage! in spreading the belief the executed youths were gay before it had examined the evidence. The article concluded that, given Peter Tatchell's "recent statements, it seems likely that his ideological disposition caused him to look past or dismiss information that cast doubt on the 'gay teenagers' story." [1]

Faisal Alam, founder of the lesbian and gay Muslim group Al-Fatiha Foundation, published an opinion piece claiming that:

"very few people took the time to research the details of the case or even consult with experts who deal with such news on a daily basis. In fact it was almost a week later that we began to read more accurate accounts of why the teens were executed from international human rights groups including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission – all of whom have contacts in Iran and ways to confirm news of such incidents from independent sources. While no one will ever know why these two young men were executed in Iran, what remains clear is that the hysteria surrounding the executions was enormous and only fed to the growing Islamaphobia and hatred towards Muslims and the Islamic world."[15]

Outrage! and Peter Tatchell continued to defend their initial claim that the two victims were hanged because they were lovers. Outrage! frequently attacked activists who took a different perspective. It accused them of being "apologists" and of giving the "Iranian government the benefit of the doubt."[16] Other gay and human rights groups that had researched the case had condemned the killings as gross rights violations. Nonetheless, Brett Lock of Outrage! wrote that those groups "showed little concern" about human rights violations in Iran:

"OutRage! is appalled that large sections of liberal and left opinion in the West shows little concern regarding the murderous brutality of the clerical fascist regime in Tehran. We deplore the gullibility of many gay, left and human rights groups concerning the abuse of LGBT human rights in Iran. ... They have long swallowed Iran's homophobic propaganda."[17]

Peter Tatchell accused those who disagreed with him over the case of "racism."[18] Outrage cited the case to “urge the international community to treat Iran as a pariah state."[19] Tatchell stated, "There can be no normal relations with an abnormal regime "[20]

Outrage! vigorously defended the National Council of Resistance (NCRI) against charges that it had abused human rights, as well as charges that it represented a "terrorist" organization. Outrage! referred to this as the "US State Department's smear." Peter Tatchell alleged that the NCRI was "heroic" and "is no more a terrorist organisation than the African National Congress in South Africa or the anti-Nazi resistance in occupied Europe during World War Two. While there have been allegations of human rights abuses by the NCRI, these pale into insignificance by comparison to the butchery of the Iranian regime."[21]

Human Rights Watch has called the NCRI the "political wing" of the People's Mojahedin. It has documented how members were "tortured, beaten and held in solitary confinement for years at military camps in Iraq after they criticized the group’s policies and undemocratic practices." Human Rights Watch has stated that "it would be a huge mistake to promote an opposition group that is responsible for serious human rights abuses.”[22]

Both Outrage! and blogger Doug Ireland have claimed secretive sources inside Iran to support their continuing assertion that Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni were hanged solely for being gay. Their source is Somalia-born activist Afdhere Jama, who lives in San Francisco in the U.S. According to Outrage!, Jama has told them that he has spoken to three people from Mashhad who maintain that Mahmoud Asgari, Ayaz Marhoni, and five other friends were originally accused of committing consensual homosexual acts on each other. [23]

Scott Long of Human Rights Watch noted in 2006 that Afdhere Jama's sources "have refused to speak to anyone else, including human rights investigators," and that allegations of a huge crackdown against gay people in Iran based on their evidence are third-hand at best. [24] Long wrote:

-It is impossible to reach a final conclusion about the criminal trial in Mashhad, given the opacity of the Iranian justice system and the authoritarian system in general, media censorship included. -The preponderance of evidence suggested that the youth were tried on allegations of rape, with the suggestion that they were tried for consensual homosexual conduct seemingly based almost entirely on mistranslations and on cursory news reporting magnified by the Western press. -There is no basis for imputing a Westernized "gay" identity to these youths. We have no idea what their behavior was or how they would have identified themselves, given the complexities around identity and sexuality in Iran.
Last word from a far right Gay group sums up the current campaign .
The Log Cabin Republicans, a conservative U.S. gay group, issued a statement reading, "In the wake of news stories and photographs documenting the hanging of two gay Iranian teenagers, Log Cabin Republicans re-affirm their commitment to the global war on terror."
It seems you are either an unwitting dupe of deliberate misinformation or you are deliberately helping in the dissemination of propaganda to further your rightwing agenda .

Now I want answered :
So I just want to know Geoff why should I accept this story as valid .
Sweden "must stop sending homosexuals back to Iran"
Sweden's asylum policy makes it illegal for the government to deport any person "who due to her/his sex or homosexuality experiences a well-founded fear of persecution", but authorities have claimed that the death penalty for sodomy is no longer in force, allowing it to send gay asylum seekers back to Iran.
So is the Swedish government ,which is known for human rights defending , Lying ? Is it true is the death penalty for sodomy no longer in force ?
But understandably other than your assurances that this is the current state of Iranian law I would like a satisfactory answer from you . Can you prove that Iran has legislation that outlaws Homosexuality in Iran and those individuals apprehended under Iranian law for practicing Homosexuality are punishable by extensive prison sentences , torture such as birching and liable for capital punishment on certain cases ?
I expect some kind of answer from you for me to read tomorrow morning at work .
I see your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
LOL Yeah Geoffy boy is a real sharp cat .
 
Last edited:
Odd I was informing you I was leaving whence why I would not be carrying on our current debates , I must turn you on .

You'll notice I didn't respond to your last-minute plea for attention.

From Canadas Gay Fab Magazine an article which really expresses my concern about the true state of Gays in Iran .

And concerning the much publicized executions of 2 youngsters for homosexual sex , was really propaganda .

Last word from a far right Gay group sums up the current campaign .

These are elements of evidence, yes; but the weight of reporting from independent organizations still falls on execution. You do not seem to have so much as touched the link I so generously gave you. I will repost it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_iran

I will also post less selectively from your Fab link:

Whitaker describes a culture built on conformity and appearances – if Iran is not Peter Tatchell’s “gigantic prison,” it’s definitely a giant closet and the Iranian government operates on a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ scheme.

The authorities hold back, Kalbasi explains, because “they don’t want the whole world to find out that there are gays in Iran…In the propaganda, they say, ‘Look at the west. Look what it has become – heaven for homosexuals.’ But to say that and then say, ‘and here’s all the homosexuals we have to round up’ – it doesn’t look good.”

It helps that there’s a sort of camouflage – in a culture where the sexes are segregated, it’s common to see Middle Eastern men developing closer friendships with each other than those in the west. Men kiss and hold hands in the streets and no one considers it sexual, nor do they want to pry.

“The line,” Kalbasi concludes, “is that you can party within your private sphere…as long as you don’t make it political, as long as you don’t start coming together and saying, ‘we, as a community, have a right.’ As soon as you do that, they won’t like that anymore.”

Ahem. :cool: Selective quotes, Brian. Tsk tsk.

It seems you are either an unwitting dupe of deliberate misinformation or you are deliberately helping in the dissemination of propaganda to further your rightwing agenda .

I am, of course, no dupe; you will therefore desist from calling me a right winger in any way. Immediately.

I expect some kind of answer from you for me to read tomorrow morning at work .

I have repeatedly explained the situation to you, yet you persist in ignoring the information right in front of your eyes. I fail to see what more good reminding you of the facts would do. I'll repost this from below:

The statements of individual MPs do not amount to any kind of official stance of the Government of Britain. General persecution of gays in Iran does not, by itself, amount to proof that any particular individual is going to be tortured or executed. The story the thread presented was of individual MPs expressing their concern for capital punishment for sexual behavior .

Do you agree or disagree with the above statements? Do you have a rational view as to why? Also, you posted only the US-UK extradition treaty. Do Iran and the UK have a similar treaty?

Yeah Geoffy boy is a real sharp cat .

This is true; I thank you for your (eventual) acknowledgement. Now: I expect a response from you on these issues:

i) You will explain how individual MPs are not permitted to express their dismay about the torture and murder of homosexuals in Iran, since foreign policy dictates their robotic repetition of same.

ii) You will explain the comments of the Iranian minister being discussed in a reasonable way. You are not permitted to blame it on translation. :rolleyes:

iii) You will explain the comments of Ahmendinejidad in a reasonable way. You are not permitted to blame it on translation. :rolleyes:

Good day.
 
I am, of course, no dupe; you will therefore desist from calling me a right winger in any way. Immediately.
You are a right winger you defend Zionism , you post sources that include defences of people who refuse to associate with non whites on public transport , sources that call for the mass deportation of 3rd World immigrants .
Do you agree or disagree with the above statements?
No
Do you have a rational view as to why? .
It was as official British Government delegation of British MPs at the Inter-Parliamentary Union representing their Government . They were not expressing their own individuals opinions but of the British Government .
Also, you posted only the US-UK extradition treaty. Do Iran and the UK have a similar treaty? .
No Iran does not in fact Britain only has one extradition treaty in force and that is with America , a one way treaty in which Britain extradites to America and America is not liable to extradite to Britain this protects Irish Freedom Fighters in America from extradition .
Please read the Extradition Act 2003 an Act in which any country can apply to have a person or persons extradited from Britain to face trial in their own nations or the nation of origin. So my answer is yes , Iran does have the right to file a legal application for Extradition and Britain is bounded by law to adhere provided that the nation lodging the application does not have capital punishment for the offence .
iii) You will explain the comments of Ahmendinejidad in a reasonable way. You are not permitted to blame it on translation. :rolleyes: .
I will leave it to the Homosexual community themselves to express what they thought .
Ahmadinejad's Gay Denial Must Occasion Caution

The sudden emergence of sympathy, even love, for gays by the likes of Fox News is not just cynical, it is dangerous. If left in the hands of those who couldn't care less about gay rights, the situation of Iranian gays will become a part of American war propaganda that aims to create justifications for military intervention and deepen the idea inside Iran that gays are a dangerous fifth column.

Reader Comments

Obviously, no one really "listened" to what Iranian Pres. Ahmadinejad said about gays in his Columbia U. speech. He did not say "there are no gays in Iran." He said:
"In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. . . ."
Is it not true that Iran does not have homosexuals like we do in this country--out in the open, like, with gay pride parades and the like--as in places such as New York City, San Francisco, etc., etc., etc.?
Now, I don't know exactly how it might have gone down in Persian or Pharsee, but in the English language, we call that Jesuitical [not to impugn Jesuits] hair-splitting.

Lisbeth Jardine, Port Angeles, WA
Now please answer my 3 questions .
So I just want to know Geoff why should I accept this story as valid .
Sweden "must stop sending homosexuals back to Iran"
Sweden's asylum policy makes it illegal for the government to deport any person "who due to her/his sex or homosexuality experiences a well-founded fear of persecution", but authorities have claimed that the death penalty for sodomy is no longer in force, allowing it to send gay asylum seekers back to Iran.
So is the Swedish government ,which is known for human rights defending , Lying ? Is it true is the death penalty for sodomy no longer in force ?
But understandably other than your assurances that this is the current state of Iranian law I would like a satisfactory answer from you . Can you prove that Iran has legislation that outlaws Homosexuality in Iran and those individuals apprehended under Iranian law for practicing Homosexuality are punishable by extensive prison sentences , torture such as birching and liable for capital punishment on certain cases ?
 
You are a right winger you defend Zionism , you post sources that include defences of people who refuse to associate with non whites on public transport , sources that call for the mass deportation of 3rd World immigrants .

...I thought you "wanted your old Australia back". I think your viewpoint is a lot more amenable to those sources than mine is: suffice to say, I obviously refute their extremist opinions, if any.

It was as official British Government delegation of British MPs at the Inter-Parliamentary Union representing their Government . They were not expressing their own individuals opinions but of the British Government .

Their party, I think you mean. Party politics does not translate directly into governmental policy; anyway, you already described them as individuals:

The story the thread presented was of individual MPs expressing their concern for capital punishment for sexual behavior .

Oops. :) Too late now.

No Iran does not in fact Britain only has one extradition treaty in force and that is with America

Does it apply to this case? Why do you keep citing it?

You didn't explain Ahmendinejidad's comments, nor those of his minister, nor the wiki entry. I'll give you another round, since naturally these comments are the response to your entries.
 
Back
Top