Capacitor to store lightning?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ok...I'm a little confused...it's been a while since I breadboarded any circuits...

3Vdc 0----| |----| |----| |---0(gnd)

With this circuit...I don't see how current would flow...since the uncharged cap would act like an "open" and there wouldn't be any path to ground. Or if did charge, it would take quite sometime with the high internal resistance of the cap.

Ohm's Law says that if you have a circuit with two resistors in them, and then if you replace one resistor with another one with a higher resistance, the new resistor will have a higher percentage of the voltage dropped across it than the old one would have had.

If a cap has a high internal resistance, it would act like a resistor with a high ohmic value, no? You would be able to measure more voltage across it than you would if the cap had a low internal resistance.
 
Ohm's Law says that if you have a circuit with two resistors in them, and then if you replace one resistor with another one with a higher resistance, the new resistor will have a higher percentage of the voltage dropped across it than the old one would have had.

If a cap has a high internal resistance, it would act like a resistor with a high ohmic value, no? You would be able to measure more voltage across it than you would if the cap had a low internal resistance.
Congratulations Benny. That is the first post of your many dozens with no nonsense it and some correct facts! Unfortunately, for you it also refutes your silly, ignorant claim in post 478 that series capacitors could be used instead of series resistors to make a high-voltage voltage divider.

In any series circuit all element in series have the same current passing thru them. In the case of a REAL capacitor there is the internal resistance. For example consider again, 3 capacitors, A B & C connected in series and all with the same capacitance C but their internal resistances are 300Meg ohms, for A, 200 Meg ohms for B and 100 meg ohms* for C with again, as in my last post, 3V applied to the the series string. To continue with numbers let 3V = 300KV and the capacitors all are rated for 120KV which if capacitors worked as voltage divider as Benny claimed would be adequate. I.e. Benny erroneously and ignorantly suggested, based on his paper only knowledge, that three capacitors all of capacitance C would each have V across them with 3V is applied to the string.

But in fact half of the 3V or 1.5V or 150KV tries to appear across the capacitor A, one third of V or 100KV tries to appear across capacitor B and one sixth or 50KV appears across capacitor C (by Benny's often quoted ohms law. I.e. they have the same current flowing thur resistors of 300, 200 & 100 meg ohms)

But it does not work in reality as it does for Benny in his paper diagrams. When the voltage on capacitor A get a little above 120KV it arcs thru and shorts out. (A cannot support half of 300KV.) Once the arc forms the internal resistance drops way down, so low it can be ignored compared to 100 or 200 meg ohms. Then with only 200megohms in series with 100 Meg ohms, the voltage on capacitor B tries to go to 200KV but of course it cannot so B breaks down with an internal arc also. now the full 300KV is applied to capacitor C and it breaks downs also.

Ironically, when Benny finally posted something that was not silly, false nonsense, he has refuted his own earlier post 478 nonsense that one can make a high-voltage voltage divider with a string of series capacitors!

But of course I had already proved this in post 479 by other means.

----------------
*Quite typical variations as the maker is trying to make all as high as possible. The best way to measure these high resistances is to charge the capacitors up and see how long it takes them to self discharge drop to 1/e of their original charge. - That, if memory serves me, is their RC time constant and C is known.

PS, I am sorry Benny, but I only read point 1 of post 478. I learned long ago that if the first bite of an egg is rotten, don't eat (or read) any more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So if the internal resistance of the caps is so high...how can they capture the massive amount of current in such a little time...wouldn't the RC time prevent this?
 
So if the internal resistance of the caps is so high...how can they capture the massive amount of current in such a little time...wouldn't the RC time prevent this?
They could be perfect (have infinite internal resistance) and still charge up. It is the electic field in the dielectric that drives charge off one plate and into some external connection and that field attracks equal charge onto the other plate from the charging source. No electrons need to flow thru the dielectric and would not if it had infinite resistance.

The rate of charging (or discharging) limiting resistance is an external resistor in series with the capacitor thru which the current must flow to charge the capacitor.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Congratulations Benny. That is the first post of your many dozens with no nonsense it and some correct facts! Unfortunately, for you it also refutes your silly, ignorant claim in post 478 that series capacitors could be used instead of series resistors to make a high-voltage voltage divider.

Ironically, when Benny finally posted something that was not silly, false nonsense, he has refuted his own earlier post 478 nonsense that one can make a high-voltage voltage divider with a string of series capacitors!

But of course I had already proved this in post 479 by other means.

This is good-bye.

As a personal experiment, I have not posted on this board in a few weeks, and I haven't even read anything on it since my last post. I wanted to see if the anger directed at me could be reduced by my absence. Unfortunately, it wasn't, so I will not post on this board anymore.

My patent and profit goals, in that order, haven't changed, and I haven't changed my opinion of people who criticize my circuit diagrams without ever seeing them.

I will not post on this board any more.

I will not discuss my circuits, my patent application(s), or my economic plans on any other SciForums board.

Since I won't be reading this thread any more, any replies to this post will be a waste of your time.

I will not notify anyone who posts here when I have sent in my patent application, or when I receive the patent, or whether I use it myself, sell it, lease it, or sell licenses to it.

I have already thanked those responsible for offering me help in the past, including the mention of the Photo Bucket website and the miniature drawing of Mr. Franklin that is visible in all my posts now. I will thank you once more now, but this is the last time, because I am leaving this board.



Benny, an admirer of Mr. Franklin,

... who made significant contributions to this country in a dozen separate areas, including diplomacy, electrical science, optics, printing, writing, and political science.
 
Last edited:
I think thats a brilliant idea. If we connected capacitors to every lighting rod in the big cities then we could harvest some of the electrical discharges of the clouds. Similar to how big buildings in cities are starting to devise mechanisms for collecting rain water on the rooftops.
 
Food for thought.where does lightning originate?perhaps the oceans or the Gulf of Mexico may hold some clues as to what you are seeking.since lightning must have proper moisture and atmospheric weather conditions to complete it's discharge,it is likely that if one can manipulate the chemical compounds of salt water,one may be able to return it,store it and thus eliminating a man made capacitor since there is a natural one.After all, energy can not be created only transformed.
 
perhaps the oceans or the Gulf of Mexico may hold some clues as to what you are seeking.
What makes you think that?

where does lightning originate?
Where do you think it "originates"?

it is likely that if one can manipulate the chemical compounds of salt water,one may be able to return it,store it and thus eliminating a man made capacitor since there is a natural one.After all, energy can not be created only transformed.
Likely? How so?
And what do you mean "return it"? To where?
 
This reply is inconclusive as I am just a thinker and my profession for now is just that of a broadband engineering technician who spent twenty five years working out of doors and at times surrounded by this magnificent force.My "theory" or the lack of one,since I have no data to confirm it,is that for billions of years the sun has passes it's energy to the oceans,the oceans absorbed it acting as a primary "sponge" The heat of the sun releases moisture from the ocean formulating clouds which act as a secondary "sponge" allowing for the absorbed energy to be released in the form of storms which contain electrical energy.Maybe?
 
This reply is inconclusive as I am just a thinker
Try learning before you think.

My "theory" or the lack of one,since I have no data to confirm it,is that for billions of years the sun has passes it's energy to the oceans,the oceans absorbed it acting as a primary "sponge" The heat of the sun releases moisture from the ocean formulating clouds which act as a secondary "sponge" allowing for the absorbed energy to be released in the form of storms which contain electrical energy.Maybe?
Have you actually looked at what lightning is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning
It's static, not something held in the oceans and then passed up to clouds.
 
It is not a easy task to store the lighting, as it is of very high voltage and have a very sharp intensity.. So if it has to be stored then the component used should be a compatible one.
 
Hello,

I am curious why someone would want to try to harness and store electricity from lightning. Isn't that like trying to harness and store the spark from shorting out the terminals on a car battery, except on a larger scale? As has already been stated in earlier posts by others, the earth/air/cloud combination already IS the capacitor you would need to build in order to contain the energy and it's already charged or in the process of being charged (or is constantly being recharged). Lightning is simply the event that occurs when this giant capacitor fails.

Wouldn't it be better to develop an effective way to harness and control the transfer of energy from the clouds to the earth? For example, take a very large blimp (or series of blimps) and equip it with a series of thin collection plates and a wire connecting to the earth with the energy collection equipment in between. Because the plates are effectively grounded, they hold the opposite charge as the clouds. As the blimp flies through the clouds, the electrons would be pulled from the cloud and drawn through the wire and a current would be formed as you slowly bleed off the energy. This energy can then be stored or used by conventional methods. While I have not taken into account the resistance and length of the wire as limitations, I think that theoretically, it is not only feasible, but a better method of extracting the stored energy.

Collecting the energy from lightning strikes may be more challenging and seem more exciting, but hardly reliable or practical in my opinion.

-Wynterbane/Chris
 
Hello,

I am curious why someone would want to try to harness and store electricity from lightning. Isn't that like trying to harness and store the spark from shorting out the terminals on a car battery, except on a larger scale? As has already been stated in earlier posts by others, the earth/air/cloud combination already IS the capacitor you would need to build in order to contain the energy and it's already charged or in the process of being charged (or is constantly being recharged). Lightning is simply the event that occurs when this giant capacitor fails.

Wouldn't it be better to develop an effective way to harness and control the transfer of energy from the clouds to the earth? For example, take a very large blimp (or series of blimps) and equip it with a series of thin collection plates and a wire connecting to the earth with the energy collection equipment in between. Because the plates are effectively grounded, they hold the opposite charge as the clouds. As the blimp flies through the clouds, the electrons would be pulled from the cloud and drawn through the wire and a current would be formed as you slowly bleed off the energy. This energy can then be stored or used by conventional methods. While I have not taken into account the resistance and length of the wire as limitations, I think that theoretically, it is not only feasible, but a better method of extracting the stored energy.

Collecting the energy from lightning strikes may be more challenging and seem more exciting, but hardly reliable or practical in my opinion.

-Wynterbane/Chris

Welcome Chris! Nice first post. The bolded part of your post pretty much sums up this thread.
 
Collecting the energy from lightning strikes may be more challenging and seem more exciting, but hardly reliable or practical in my opinion.

-Wynterbane/Chris

Hi Chris, I like the blimp idea, assuming there's a positive cost/benefit ratio, that might be fun to discuss.

But yeah, catching lightning like BennyF proposes? Hmmm, no.

Welcome to SciForums, btw.
 
how about a ceramic blimp filled with every heavy element on the periodic table stopping at silicon. If you power it with microwaves pushing against it. I think the thing should fly...
 
Thank you. For further discussion, I have started a thread under, Earth Sciences, titled "Harnessing Earth's Natural Energies" in order to expand on the possibility of tapping the energy before it becomes lightning, as Pete in post #14 of this thread suggested, and possible methods for doing so.

-Wynterbane/Chris
 
Questions:
1) How will we get lightning th strike the desired receptacle consistently and often enough to warrant a lightning power station?
2) Assuming the electronics can be made to store and convert lightning, just how much energy can we get out of each lightning strike?

My questions are based on that sure it should be possible to derive useful energy from lightning, but could it ever be economical?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top