That's Bravo Sierra...No one here ever said it was impossible to collect any energy from a lightning strike. Anyone who's seen Frankenstein can tell you that. What people have repeatedly said is that is insanely impractical for many reasons.
Capacitor to store lightning?
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That's Bravo Sierra...No one here ever said it was impossible to collect any energy from a lightning strike. Anyone who's seen Frankenstein can tell you that. What people have repeatedly said is that is insanely impractical for many reasons.
Perhaps confinement in the asylum explains Benny's long absence?
Billy, thank YOU for your "welcome back". I'm hoping that you and I and a few others can discuss this topic in a mutually respectful manner in a way that allows for some science to be discussed.
I'm afraid I'm not familliar with your use of the term "inductance" as used in a cap bank. In the classes I took, the word was only applied to inductors. I've been talking about a straightforward set of caps wired in series, each set wired in parallel. The arrangement could be drawn on paper using the customary symbols that schematics are built on. If your paper was large enough, if you had enough time and pencil lead, and if you had an audience with enough patience to let you finish the pencil drawing, you could draw the whole bank, all 1,000 branches, each branch having 3,000 series caps.
As for your reference to the patent regulations, I';ll look into this topic, but don't expect me to change my mind about divulging the exact electrical details. A U.S. Patent is still a very valuable commodity partly because it's so rare to have one.
I'm afraid I'm not familliar with your use of the term "inductance" as used in a cap bank. In the classes I took, the word was only applied to inductors. I've been talking about a straightforward set of caps wired in series, each set wired in parallel. The arrangement could be drawn on paper using the customary symbols that schematics are built on. If your paper was large enough, if you had enough time and pencil lead, and if you had an audience with enough patience to let you finish the pencil drawing, you could draw the whole bank, all 1,000 branches, each branch having 3,000 series caps.
As for your reference to the patent regulations, I';ll look into this topic, but don't expect me to change my mind about divulging the exact electrical details. A U.S. Patent is still a very valuable commodity partly because it's so rare to have one.
Using a movie to explain a point about a serious science topic makes it much too easy to prove that you're right about that. All I have to do is to mention a few movies that highlight the impossible science topics, like "Back to the Future", where people travelled in time; "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", where people walked on air while conducting a martial arts fight; and any one of several thousand movies that feature the interactions between Earthlings and intelligent creatures who come from other planets.
I agree that a large-scale cap bank, like I described earlier today, is insanely impractical for many reasons, including the need to be a lottery winner just to afford to buy the caps and the need to be a generous donor to a major political party so that you will get all the permits. My point is that a large-scale cap bank, like I described, would be able to handle all of the voltage and all of the current of a typical lightning bolt.
If you like thinking this way, and you want to continue this line of thought, then consider two other possibilities. The electrical storm could send more than one lightning bolt to your collection point, and the first bolt of lightning that hits your collection point could be positively-charged.
The reason for my long absence is simple. I hated the messages that had very little to do with science, so I stopped posting until I could rest and recharge my emotional "batteries".
Benny
P.S. Mr. Franklin is credited with making serious contributions to a dozen separate fields, including statesmanship (he was named by the U.S. Government as an Ambassador to France), printing, inventions (the bifocal eyeglasses), and his original literature, the series of books called "Poor Richard's Almanac". A penny saved IS a penny earned.
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ALL electrical circuits have inductance, even just a straight wire. Inductance makes the current lag the voltage - lowers the "power factor" (when voltage and current are not in phase, more current is required to deliver the same energy in a second.)
Capacitors do the opposite - i.e. the voltage on them lags the current in them.
This is why, if you look at power distribution lines, you will occasionally see some capacitors at the top of the poles. The power company is restoring the power factor by balancing out the linear inductance of the wires with the added capacitors. That keeps the current lower for the same power distribution and lower I means less Rx(I^2) losses.
Also with all the investigation of capacitors you claim to have done, How could you not notice that "low inductance" capacitors are much more expensive?
Again EVERY COMPONENT that has current flowing thru it has inductance. In fact if you know the exact path of the current in the component, you can calculate the inductance. I will not tell you how as that is far above the abilities of one who thinks only components called "inductors" have inductance.
Unfortunately the ratio of you electrical knowledge to your ignorance of electrical facts is almost zero. Because of this, it really is amusing to read your posts as you try to invent new applications in this more than 100 year old field.
BTW the inductance of a straight wire is the easiest to calculate. I am sure even the slightest use of Google searching for "inductance of a straight wire" will give you dozen of such calculations and some may state as I have that inductance ONLY depends upon the current path. Inductnce of a single turn circular hoop is also easy to calculate but the inductance of a two turn hoop is not just twice that as the interaction of their currents gives "mutual inductance." However, based on our prior exchanges, these efforts of mine at educating you will totally fail.
You do give me the chance to enlighten others however so I thank you for that. If I just started posting electrical facts, people would think me egotistical and looking down on them.
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Hi, Billy. Allow me to welcome YOU back, and you too, MacGyver. When I restarted posting on this thread, I was afraid that the guys who used to correspond with me here wouldn't come back, but both of you are responding again, and I'm glad to have you back.
One clarification is in order. When I talk about the brute-force approach to the problem of collecting the energy from lightning, I'm only talking about the electrical energy. Lightning bolts also produce heat and other kinds of radiation. I said a long time ago that the heat at the point where a lightning bolt hits reaches a temperature that is four times hotter than the surface of the sun. This is why lightning can start forest fires, not because of any of its' electrical properties.
The following link is to a fire that was started by lightning. The link is only a few hours old as I write this:
http://www.douglas-budget.com/news/article_90164566-d3e3-11e0-af73-001cc4c002e0.html
The application I will send to the patent office will only deal with electricity, and again, it won't even mention lightning or any of the dangers associated with it.
One clarification is in order. When I talk about the brute-force approach to the problem of collecting the energy from lightning, I'm only talking about the electrical energy. Lightning bolts also produce heat and other kinds of radiation. I said a long time ago that the heat at the point where a lightning bolt hits reaches a temperature that is four times hotter than the surface of the sun. This is why lightning can start forest fires, not because of any of its' electrical properties.
The following link is to a fire that was started by lightning. The link is only a few hours old as I write this:
http://www.douglas-budget.com/news/article_90164566-d3e3-11e0-af73-001cc4c002e0.html
The application I will send to the patent office will only deal with electricity, and again, it won't even mention lightning or any of the dangers associated with it.
Can you name the exact Chapter and Section of the U.S. Code that supports your statement? Every U.S. Cabinet Department has to abide by the U.S. Laws, and the Patent Office is part of the U.S. Department of Commerce. Here, I'll give you a head start. Patent laws come under Title 35 of the U.S. Code.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/consolidated_laws.pdf
"Several"? Try 250 years ago.
I've been researching this for five years now. I've discovered quite a bit about lightning, including where to find it, the voltage and current ratings for a typical bolt, the approximate maximum voltage and current ratings for the extreme lightning bolts, the fact that some bolts are positively charged, the fact that they're hot at the spot where they hit, hot enough to melt an iron lightning rod, the fact that they produce x-rays and other invisible radiation, and the fact that people who survive being hit by a lightning bolt often become socially withdrawn.
I've also been researching water electrolysis, which is my preferred use for the stored electricity that I will likely set up if I can get a patent and the permits for all my equipment. I know now, for instance, that platinum is the preferred single-element electrode for water electrolysis, but two- and three-element alloys are being developed, all requiring different voltage levels for maximum efficiency, defined as the voltage required for the maximum production of the gases from a supply of purified water.
Because the brute-force approach I wrote about yesterday is a theoretical model, only meant to be taken seriously by people who are direct descendants of Howard Hughes, Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet.
I don't recall anybody saying that. I do recall us telling you that it was impossible to capture ALL the energy in a lightning bolt, and correcting your misunderstanding of how capacitors work, and pointing out that trying to make lightning do work as it travels makes that path less attractive to a strike, and that there isn't that much energy in a strike anyway, and that the only feasible approach, using inductors around a conductor is being tested by a company already, and we have yet to see that method employed to make electricity.
So still, you got nothing.
No. I only know patents were granted if applied for in less than one year from public disclosure about 25 years ago as I have one that was. As I said in the post I don't know if the rules have changed.
I also have a couple of patents that you can not access, as there is a secrete patent system also. I am forbidden to even tell the name of them. I don't own them, the US Navy does. The Navy paid the cost of seeking those patents after review of their merit. The government wanted protection against the need to later pay royalties on ideas, which some private firm might also invent. I developed those ideas when the Navy was paying my salary.
You are, IMHO, much too focused on the patents when what you need is to reduce your extreme ignorance about the physics of circuits. - I.e. understand that all components have inductance, even if called resisters, wires, capacitors etc. as I tried, (without any hope that you would learn) to teach to you in prior post 525 which you are ignoring.
Not bad for someone who hasn't offered any of his own research.
First, I'm not trying to capture all of the energy in a lightning bolt. They carry heat, X-rays, and other radiation, which I'm not trying to capture. I'm only interested in the electrical energy.
Second, lightning opens up a channel of ionized air, which reduces the resistance of the air. Check with the National Weather Service for the details. I have.
Third, you mentioned inductors around a conductor, and you made two contradictory statements about it. You said:
1. it's the only feasible approach, and
2. we have yet to see that method employed to make electricity.
Which statement is the one you want to stick with?
Oh, and as for "I got nothing", what I have is an unfinished patent application on a method of charging a capacitor. Make sure you read what I wrote about it yesterday.
Benny
The U.S. Government paid my salary some time ago, and while I was researching the process of obtaining a patent, I came across the fact that some patents require a U.S. Government security clearance to view them. I stated this fact last year, when the board was more active, but I also stated my belief, and I still believe it, that the U.S. Government is not likely to have any reason to classify the particular method of charging a capacitor that I propose to send to the patent office as a formal application for a U.S. Patent.
Just curious...have you ever calculated the total amount of energy that is contained in a lightning strike? A joule is the quantity of energy required to do 1 watt of work for one second....a kilowatt hour is a larger unit, 1000 watts for an hour. Have you ever calculated how many kilowatt hours of electricity are contained within a strike?
Lightning strikes contain between 1-10 billion joules of energy. That translates into 270-2700 kilowatt hours of electricity. A 1000 watt window-unit air conditioner uses 730 kilowatt hours in a month.
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I haven't researched it personally, because I understand the physics of it, and the economics of it, and know it doesn't justify itself as a pursuit.
Ha ha, very good, a nit pick. You are however trying to capture all the electrical energy, and that simply cannot be done: the lightning will just not strike your apparatus.
Yes Benny, I know that, and _you_ should also know it follows the path of least resistance. Try and make it do too much work, and and it'll strike elsewhere.
Both. They are not contradictory statements. They discuss different aspects of the prospect, the physics, and the economics, again, this eludes you.
Unfinished. Yeah. the 'un' word you are looking for, is 'unfeasible' .
Ahem. It would seem that some people are unaware of the fact that electrical storms can produce more than one lightning bolt. If you look earlier in this thread, I think, yes, I think you'll find a graphical scan of an electrical storm in progress, just past its' peak, in fact.
I think, in fact, I know that if you look at the graphic, you'll see that at its' peak, it delivered over 100 lightning strikes per minute. This is one of the thousands of facts I have discovered over the past five years' worth of research.
Once someone has decided that he wants to capture and store some (or even all) of the electrical energy in an electrical storm, that person should make a second decision, whether to attempt to leave his capacitor-based equipment open to being charged two, three, or four times in an hour, or whether he'd rather detach his equipment after the first lightning strike. If he chooses the second option, then he'll have to decide how to detach the equipment and thus prevent a second charging event for his capacitor-based equipment.
One more time, my patent application will not mention lightning at all. It's only a method of charging a capacitor, a method that I have not seen mentioned yet in any issued patent in the numbered class and subclass for charging capacitors.
Benny
I note that all three were very well educated / informed about the fields in which they made fortunes in.
In contrast, you are essentially totally ignorant of the basic physics of circuits, yet thinking you have something of value to patent.
The research I did over the past five years included the discovery of some questions asked by children of the scientists who worked at the Argonne National Laboratory under a program called "Ask a Scientist". Here's one of the questions and their answer:
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00876.htm
That article mentions this:
That's 138 kilowatt hours...almost enough energy to run 2 100 watt light bulbs for a month.
In your 5 years of research, have you ever calculated the total amount of electricity that is contained in a strike? And if yes..what number did you come up with?
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