"Book of Mormon" plagiarism?

[WildBlueYonder]

I shall use a statement of one of my favorite scholars, "Socrates demonstrated a long time ago what a hollow thing consensus is."

remind this to the next muslim you see, they take great comfort in knowing that they are fast approaching the most practiced religion in the world

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I take it you are not willing to discuss what it would take for *you* personally to have proof of something?

are you serious? no really, are you?

Too subjective is it?

no, if you are saying what it would take for me to be honest about what is 'proof', I just hope you are as honest to yourself.
two notes of warning though;
1) if we are discussing Jesus, salvation or Christianity, it has to be Bible-based (the BoM is not (ask me why))
2) if we are discussing "real" native Americans, the geography &/or history of the Western Hemisphere, it needs to be science-based (the BoM is not (ask me why))

Are you going to engage me in conversation,

most mormons I've met here are only interested in repeating the mantras they've learned to repeat in whatever classes you need to be missionaries, if you're saying that you want a 'frank' discussion or conversation with me, that's fine
but be honest
first of all, why are you here?
does it matter to you what I believe?
do you really care?
are you here to make points?
would you ever leave the LDS?

or chase yourself down rabbit trails that lead nowhere,

sorry bud, I've only seen mormons do this, they are very clever trying to re-define Biblical truths, then hem & haw about BoM inconsistencies

and then congratulate yourself on being so very clever.........

so far, the LDS chaps here have made me look far more cleverer than I really am, you guys just walk right into it. it must hurt sometimes to have to defend the BoM, BoA or the D&C when they make such awful gaffs

 

[Kerry Shirts]

You said there is no proof whatever of the Book of Mormon, and now you have expanded that to include the other Mormon scriptures. I have simply asked you what would a "proof" for you personally constitute. Your unwillingness to be open and forthright about what you will accept as proof is most telling indeed.........most telling about you anyway.

And if we are discussing Jesus, salvation, and Christiantiy you want to use the Bible? I have a suspicion you haven't much of a clue about the Bible........

Why am I here? Because I enjoy conversation. I enjoy learning and sharing what I know and believe. And no, quite frankly I don't care what you believe, it's when you begin pontificating on subjects I know about, and pontificating with the vast ignorance I see you displaying that causes me to ask myself, gee, I wonder what this good chap really understands? I have a feeling it is rather shallow, at best.

And as far as twisting Bible truths, no one does that better than Christians ourselves, according to the Jewish folk. Are they wrong simply because *we* say so?

It never hurts to defend the scriptures, since I suspect I am more adept in them than you are. I am more than willing to let you try to demonstrate otherwise, but its a long row to hoe for you if you are up for it.

So, what part of the Bible would you like to discuss? Any particular favorite subject? I am willing to even discuss it with you in a new thread if that would suit you.

 

[Kerry Shirts]

“ Originally Posted by Kerry Shirts
I shall use a statement of one of my favorite scholars, "Socrates demonstrated a long time ago what a hollow thing consensus is." ”


Wild Blue Yonder:
remind this to the next muslim you see, they take great comfort in knowing that they are fast approaching the most practiced religion in the world

I am saying that to your statement as a Christian which you apparently take great comfort in using as to bolster your own views because so many others do. All the poeple in the world believing in something does not make it truth or right or accurate. In other words, it is irrelevant what a majority think to be true, if it is not true. Including your own claims to your view of the Bible, or against the Book of Mormon, etc.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

In other words, it is irrelevant what a majority think to be true, if it is not true. Including your own claims to your view of the Bible, or against the Book of Mormon, etc.

so, does this hold only to others' views or are you subject to this too? you may not want to admit it, but you could be wrong too? or are you absolutely convinced 1000% you're right?

 

[The Devil Inside]

remind this to the next muslim you see, they take great comfort in knowing that they are fast approaching the most practiced religion in the world

wouldnt you?
seems mormons have been on a wild recruiting drive for the last 100 years. they even have their own state (unofficially, of course).
look out muslims, the mormons are on your heels!!! :m:

 

[Kerry Shirts]

Wild blue:
so, does this hold only to others' views or are you subject to this too? you may not want to admit it, but you could be wrong too? or are you absolutely convinced 1000% you're right?

Of course it holds for me also. I nowhere have exlcuded myself as some sort of special treatment. No, I say it is to the evidences we turn to, Biblical if discussing that wonderful text, Book of Mormon if that one, etc., etc. We let the merits of the texts themselves come out and test them, not what others base their ideas on..........we give the texts the benefit of the doubt and test them like mad to see what comes of it. And yes, the reason most won't do this is because they very swiftly find they are going to have to devote some *years* to it, and who wants to do that? It's much easier to do like you are doing, just make fun of it if you don't believe it, and relieve yourself of all that hard effort. The downside to this is, you personally will never *KNOW* the truth, if you don't give it your honest best first.

My new post, and new thread, "Book of Mormon Internal Consistency" would be a FINE place to begin your serious study of the BofM, if you think you are up to it. Forget the snide, cutesy little stupid comments, get on with the evidence of the text already. I'm waiting to see you tear it apart as you appear to strut around here thinking you can do. Show me something already.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

You said there is no proof whatever of the Book of Mormon,

& I suppose you have more proof than that burning bosom feeling? yes?
I’m waiting for that BoM museum to open, you know the one with the Laminite & Nephite artifacts; old rusty swords, farm implements, Reformed Egyptian scrolls & plates, L & N DNA samples & cities. you know like they have in Israel & Egypt, all that proof of those ancient civs, long dead

and now you have expanded that to include the other Mormon scriptures.

yeah, they just happen to be just as weak; as an example, the BoA, did you know that old Joe didn’t know how to translate Egyptian? The proof is in the facsimiles found after the Great Chicago Fire was thought to have burned that evidence,
say, I’m getting a new conspiracy theory here; namely that the Great Chicago Fire, was started by mormons after the LDS leadership found out that Egyptian had been deciphered & they wanted to get rid of the evidence, how’s that for a conspiracy theory?

I have simply asked you what would a "proof" for you personally constitute.

I want an artifact; if Laminites & Nephites roamed the land for over a thousand years, you’d expect a few mementos, like in Israel, maybe some “Dead Sea scrolls”(that don’t disappear) is asking too much, but how about a Reformed Egyptian decorated city or some pre-1492 wheat pollen over some vast tracts of the Western Hemisphere, (sort of like all those dinosaur bones in Montana, can you dig it?) Something to tell the world, “hey!!!, world! We Laminites lived, loved & conquered, we did not go gently into the night” is that too much to ask?

Your unwillingness to be open and forthright about what you will accept as proof is most telling indeed.........most telling about you anyway.

hmm, I guess I have to be more specific, I thought I was, so here’s the shorter version;
1) Bible-based
2) Science-based

And if we are discussing Jesus, salvation, and Christiantiy you want to use the Bible? I have a suspicion you haven't much of a clue about the Bible........

oh, & I’m guessing you’re going to show me, right?

Why am I here? Because I enjoy conversation. I enjoy learning and sharing what I know and believe.

good for you, lets talk

And no, quite frankly I don't care what you believe,

so why bother? Can’t let someone dog the LDS?

it's when you begin pontificating on subjects I know about,

really, is that the only criteria?
& when you do it, is it still called “pontificating”? or is it called “LDS’ing”?

and pontificating with the vast ignorance I see you displaying

vast? ignorance? displaying? My, how quick to judge, & how, pray tell did you come up with ‘vast’? I’m guessing its ‘ignorance to you, that I don’t tow the LDS line? I’m happy to ‘display’ that

that causes me to ask myself, gee, I wonder what this good chap really understands? I have a feeling it is rather shallow, at best.

well, I guess you’ll have to do a little mining, now won’t you?

And as far as twisting Bible truths, no one does that better than Christians ourselves, according to the Jewish folk. Are they wrong simply because *we* say so?

first of all, LDS is not ‘Christian’, its polytheistic, so its more akin to Hinduism in that regard. Second of all, if you’ll notice three little things here;
1) Christians incorporate the OT into the Bible, (the LDS has this extra-biblical book (the BoM) that trumps all other scriptures according to them)
2) Without implying that the Bible is in error, only that the Jews have not understood their own Scriptures (unlike the LDS that says that both the Bible & mainstream Christians are in error)
3) Jesus came to show the “Truth, the Way & the Life”, its up to us to find out if its true for us. (& if you look into the OT, you’ll see that Jesus was clearly announced there) (also, ask a believing orthodox Jew to tell you about the Seder, what goes on, what is the symbolism, what is said. Jesus had a saying for us that I’ll just paraphrase here, “ever seeing, but never seeing”)

It never hurts to defend the scriptures, since I suspect I am more adept in them than you are.

conceited to, aren’t you? defend away

I am more than willing to let you try to demonstrate otherwise, but its a long row to hoe for you if you are up for it.

that you are more “adept”, sure, go ahead & try to ‘demonstrate’ that, but I hope you have better responses than bishop Marlin did, recently departed (he left this site for awhile, according to him)

So, what part of the Bible would you like to discuss? Any particular favorite subject? I am willing to even discuss it with you in a new thread if that would suit you.

why thanks for the offer, which concordance do you use? Any helpful books you have read? You can PM me if you like, or have this BB out in the open. do you have non-LDS study guides? how do you read the Bible, by c&v, look for things, daily apps?

Can we study John’s Letters first?

 

[Kerry Shirts]

& I suppose you have more proof than that burning bosom feeling? yes?
I’m waiting for that BoM museum to open, you know the one with the Laminite & Nephite artifacts; old rusty swords, farm implements, Reformed Egyptian scrolls & plates, L & N DNA samples & cities. you know like they have in Israel & Egypt, all that proof of those ancient civs, long dead

They have myriads of these for the Bible already. WHY are there then STILL atheists in the land? These types of things are not PROOF........

“ and now you have expanded that to include the other Mormon scriptures. ”

yeah, they just happen to be just as weak; as an example, the BoA, did you know that old Joe didn’t know how to translate Egyptian? The proof is in the facsimiles found after the Great Chicago Fire was thought to have burned that evidence,
say, I’m getting a new conspiracy theory here; namely that the Great Chicago Fire, was started by mormons after the LDS leadership found out that Egyptian had been deciphered & they wanted to get rid of the evidence, how’s that for a conspiracy theory?

Stupid as usual. If you ain't smart enough to delve into for yourself instead of relying on what other ignorant folks say, then the resort is to some conspiracy theory. Not impressive at all. No evidence, just mere wasted assertion and dodging the issues of what Joseph Smith got so correct in it all.


“ I have simply asked you what would a "proof" for you personally constitute. ”

I want an artifact; if Laminites & Nephites roamed the land for over a thousand years, you’d expect a few mementos, like in Israel, maybe some “Dead Sea scrolls”(that don’t disappear) is asking too much, but how about a Reformed Egyptian decorated city or some pre-1492 wheat pollen over some vast tracts of the Western Hemisphere, (sort of like all those dinosaur bones in Montana, can you dig it?) Something to tell the world, “hey!!!, world! We Laminites lived, loved & conquered, we did not go gently into the night” is that too much to ask?

Are you ready to be truthful with me now? Suppose, for the sake of argument we really, genuinely found an artifact. HOW could we prove it is a Nephite artifact, or a Lamanite or even a Jaredite one? What special markings on it would prove it thus? And if one was absolutely without doubt found, say a Nephite sword, are you seriously telling me you will be baptized, and join Mormonism on that evidence? And go on a mission, and preach the Gospel for two years, and pay tithing, and attend General Conference twice a year, and attend faithfully a three hour block of meetings every sunday, accept a calling in mutual and have to show up on Tuesday nights for 3 hours? Are you telling me you would do 100% hometeaching? That you would read all the LDS scriptures every year, subscribe to the Ensign for the adults in the houshold, and the New Era for the kids? Be honest with me. Because, quite frankly, this might be a trap, the evidence I have might be what your wished for artifact actually IS. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is or not?



“ Your unwillingness to be open and forthright about what you will accept as proof is most telling indeed.........most telling about you anyway. ”

hmm, I guess I have to be more specific, I thought I was, so here’s the shorter version;
1) Bible-based
2) Science-based

And this still does not convert atheists either to Christianity......just so you are aware of the rather astonishingly shallow grounds you are working on.....

“ And if we are discussing Jesus, salvation, and Christiantiy you want to use the Bible? I have a suspicion you haven't much of a clue about the Bible........ ”

oh, & I’m guessing you’re going to show me, right?

I will astonish you to no living end, I can more than assure you whippersnapper.


“ Why am I here? Because I enjoy conversation. I enjoy learning and sharing what I know and believe. ”

good for you, lets talk

Why certainly.....


“ And no, quite frankly I don't care what you believe, ”

so why bother? Can’t let someone dog the LDS?

Not and remain unanswered, no. You bring a challenge, I meet your cardboard sword with Excaliber..........


“ it's when you begin pontificating on subjects I know about, ”

really, is that the only criteria?
& when you do it, is it still called “pontificating”? or is it called “LDS’ing”?

Not at all. It is called correcting blind biased ignorance, presented as if it is truth, when it so obviously is not, to one as well read in the tradition as I am.


“ and pontificating with the vast ignorance I see you displaying
”

vast?

Utterly so.......

ignorance? displaying?

With your every post against Mormonism, yes...............

My, how quick to judge, & how, pray tell did you come up with ‘vast’?

It is demonstrated with every post you have made on Mormonism thus far. If you wish to change my perceptions you will have to begin being serious and realistic, not this fantasy laughing and acting like you are running victory laps before you even get dressed to come down on the race track.

I’m guessing its ‘ignorance to you, that I don’t tow the LDS line? I’m happy to ‘display’ that

Wrong again, as usual, I notice. It is not mine that is showing, but thine alone.


“ that causes me to ask myself, gee, I wonder what this good chap really understands? I have a feeling it is rather shallow, at best. ”

well, I guess you’ll have to do a little mining, now won’t you?

As shallow as you are going with criticisms, I won't even have to call to action a plastic fork yet.........

“ And as far as twisting Bible truths, no one does that better than Christians ourselves, according to the Jewish folk. Are they wrong simply because *we* say so? ”

first of all, LDS is not ‘Christian’, its polytheistic,

See above under the heading ***vast ignorance****


so its more akin to Hinduism in that regard. Second of all, if you’ll notice three little things here;

1) Christians incorporate the OT into the Bible,

And like I have noted and which you have certainly not addressed (I knew you couldn't), the Jews show how this is all *wrong* from their stance. There is NO New Testament..........

(the LDS has this extra-biblical book (the BoM) that trumps all other scriptures according to them)

Not trumps, just helps complete, and round out, and demonstrate greater truths about God, mankind, and the Plan of Salvation........

2) Without implying that the Bible is in error, only that the Jews have not understood their own Scriptures (unlike the LDS that says that both the Bible & mainstream Christians are in error)

All of us are more or less in error, in that we really don't have the final say so on total knowledge and understanding yet. We believe God continually is revealing greater light and knowledge however.......

3

) Jesus came to show the “Truth, the Way & the Life”, its up to us to find out if its true for us. (& if you look into the OT, you’ll see that Jesus was clearly announced there)

Not according to the Jews. This is called Christian interpolation from their stance. This is called corrupting the true Word of God for their wrong objectives and means and ends. The Christians blew it. That is how the Jews see it.

(also, ask a believing orthodox Jew to tell you about the Seder, what goes on, what is the symbolism, what is said. Jesus had a saying for us that I’ll just paraphrase here, “ever seeing, but never seeing”)

Said from a Christian perspective, yes I understand. But any good Orthodox Jew would laugh himself/herself silly over such triped interpretation. I KNOW, I have tried it with them. Have YOU? Try it, its an astonishing eye opener how stupid they will make you feel for trying that cheap trick on them.

“ It never hurts to defend the scriptures, since I suspect I am more adept in them than you are. ”

conceited to, aren’t you? defend away

There's nothing to defend on yet exception your inane contentions, and they are will-o-wisps in the wind. I have seen exactly nothing substantial from you yet. When are you going to play?


“ I am more than willing to let you try to demonstrate otherwise, but its a long row to hoe for you if you are up for it. ”

that you are more “adept”, sure, go ahead & try to ‘demonstrate’ that, but I hope you have better responses than bishop Marlin did, recently departed (he left this site for awhile, according to him)

I have nothing to swing at, you aren't even on the pitchers mound yet, and you are already claiming the Book of Mormon has struck out! Hell you ain't even made it to the ball park yet, let alone got into the locker room!

“ So, what part of the Bible would you like to discuss? Any particular favorite subject? I am willing to even discuss it with you in a new thread if that would suit you. ”

why thanks for the offer, which concordance do you use? Any helpful books you have read? You can PM me if you like, or have this BB out in the open. do you have non-LDS study guides? how do you read the Bible, by c&v, look for things, daily apps?

Can we study John’s Letters first?

Certainly. What in John's letters is so non-Mormon and unbiblical about Mormonism? You make the claim, I will show otherwise.

Best,
Kerry

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Certainly. What in John's letters is so non-Mormon and unbiblical about Mormonism? You make the claim, I will show otherwise.

Best,
Kerry

defensive aren't you? its just that I've done the Pauline Letters in the past, wanted to do John's, if that is ok with you? you pick, if you'll feel better about it

 

[Kerry Shirts]

Where ever did you get the idea that I am defensive? I am more than willing to get into John's letters, sure. I'm just not sure how to do about it, since it appears to me you will take the stance that they don't support Mormonism, and I of course will show differently, that's all.

Cordially yours,
Kerry

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Where ever did you get the idea that I am defensive?

read your previous post again,

Certainly. What in John's letters is so non-Mormon and unbiblical about Mormonism? You make the claim, I will show otherwise.

Best,
Kerry

in my book, I'd say that was being defensive

I am more than willing to get into John's letters, sure. I'm just not sure how to do about it, since it appears to me you will take the stance that they don't support Mormonism, and I of course will show differently, that's all.

Cordially yours,
Kerry

there you go again 'being defensive', can you just read the Bible without preconceptions on what it says or what, if any, ulterior motive I have? it was your idea to do a Bible study in the first place, what was your intention? to prove LDS right? or just read it with a fellow human being?
BTW, you never answered how you wanted to read it, what other books instead of John's letters to read or if you wanted to use concordances or study guides, if you want some LDS source material, I would prefer free "online" resources, if you don't mind?

 

[Kerry Shirts]

WBY:
can you just read the Bible without preconceptions on what it says or what, if any, ulterior motive I have?

Sure, fair enough..............

it was your idea to do a Bible study in the first place, what was your intention? to prove LDS right? or just read it with a fellow human being?

A little of both actually..........

BTW, you never answered how you wanted to read it, what other books instead of John's letters to read or if you wanted to use concordances or study guides, if you want some LDS source material, I would prefer free "online" resources, if you don't mind?

Nah you can use any and all sources on the net. I use them, and have several of my own as well..............

Best,
Kerry

 

[Nisus]

WBY ur stupid and i bet ur life sux

 

[WildBlueYonder]

WBY ur stupid and i bet ur life sux

thank you for your wonderful comments, it must indeed be desperate times in Nisusville, if thats the best you can come up with

So Nisus, did Joe Smith copy most of the BoM from other sources or did he make it all up on his own? What do you think & why? Plus, what do you think of all those "First Vision" versions?

 

[Marlin]

WBY's self-proclaimed statement is that he wants to defend his brand of Christianity and put down Latter-day Saint belief. He isn't really interested in proof of anything--he's already decided that he must defend the world from Mormonism. No proof will be sufficient to sway him. He is God's Warrior and will keep repeating the same trash and invective over and over again in hopes of driving all LDS thought and expression off of the net.

His mind is closed.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

No proof will be sufficient to sway him.

wrong there, the BoM just needs to satify 2 points for proof;
1) is it Bible-based
2) does science support it

it fails on both counts

He is God's Warrior

& I suppose you are just a Chihuahua?

and will keep repeating the same trash

what? you & the LDS make claims for the BoM, you got to defend it, with 'real' proof, not just repeating that Moroni promise, "I know its true, ...", "I know its true, ...", "I know its true, ..."

and invective over and over again in hopes of driving all LDS thought and expression off of the net.

that's wrong on 5 counts;
1) mormons claim 2 things that offend me & that they have to prove true
a) that 'mainstream' christians are heretics
b) that the 'mother' culture of the Mesoamerican people was Hebrew
2) I believe in "free speech", in the marketplace of ideas (you just have to prove some things, that's all)
3) there's way to many mormons for little ol' me to drive out (see Jeff Linsey's site as example)
4) I've yet to make a concerted effort to lock horns with mormons (except for my home here at SciForums), but now that Kerry has jumped from FAIR to SciForums, I guess its only fair that I jump into FAIR
5) & I don't think I come close to the following def, except for hurting your feelings by calling LDS a 'cult'

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2004/03/03.html
invective \in-VEK-tiv\, noun:
1. An abusive expression or speech; a vehement verbal attack.
2. Insulting or abusive language.

adjective:
Of, relating to, or characterized by insult, abuse, or denunciatory language.

His mind is closed.

& of course, your's is so open

 

[Marlin]

wrong there, the BoM just needs to satify 2 points for proof;
1) is it Bible-based
2) does science support it

it fails on both counts

You've never even read it, so how do you know except for the anti-Mormon web sites you peruse?

& I suppose you are just a Chihuahua?

Huh?

what? you & the LDS make claims for the BoM, you got to defend it, with 'real' proof, not just repeating that Moroni promise, "I know its true, ...", "I know its true, ...", "I know its true, ..."

The Holy Ghost supplies real proof. Moroni's Promise tells us how to obtain that testimony.

that's wrong on 5 counts;
1) mormons claim 2 things that offend me & that they have to prove true
a) that 'mainstream' christians are heretics
b) that the 'mother' culture of the Mesoamerican people was Hebrew

The truth has always offended the world.

2) I believe in "free speech", in the marketplace of ideas (you just have to prove some things, that's all)

Good for you.

3) there's way to many mormons for little ol' me to drive out (see Jeff Linsey's site as example)

Thank God for that.

4) I've yet to make a concerted effort to lock horns with mormons (except for my home here at SciForums), but now that Kerry has jumped from FAIR to SciForums, I guess its only fair that I jump into FAIR

You truly have a devastating wit.

5) & I don't think I come close to the following def, except for hurting your feelings by calling LDS a 'cult'

You're kidding, right? Every post you make about Mormonism is filled with invective and mockery.

& of course, your's is so open

I like to think I have an open mind, yes, as a matter of fact. Do you?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

You've never even read it, so how do you know except for the anti-Mormon web sites you peruse?

actually, I’ve never made it past “1 Nephi”, I got 21 notes of questions or errors just on that chapter, like this;
1) if it’s an abridgement, why does it go on & on about so many things?
2) if it’s an abridgement why does it use the term, “and it shall come to pass”, so many times?

“ what? you & the LDS make claims for the BoM, you got to defend it, with 'real' proof, not just repeating that Moroni promise, "I know its true, ...", "I know its true, ...", "I know its true, ..." ”
The Holy Ghost supplies real proof. Moroni's Promise tells us how to obtain that testimony.

then why do I have real proof that the BoM is false teaching?

“ that's wrong on 5 counts;
1) mormons claim 2 things that offend me & that they have to prove true
a) that 'mainstream' christians are heretics
b) that the 'mother' culture of the Mesoamerican people was Hebrew ”
The truth has always offended the world.

your so-called “TRUTH” on item (b) has only mormon defenders, no one else can find evidence, the natives have never practiced any typical “jewish” customs, that you would expect them to, if they were ‘jewish’; Marlin, has any one ever found that any Mesoamerican peoples ever practiced ‘circumcision’, a very important practice for jews? Do any of the tribes have any oral traditions that claim they are jews? You know that for years the Lembi tribe from Africa told people they were jewish; no one believed that a black African people could be jews, until they looked at their customs & their DNA, guess what? They’re jews, can anyone make the same claim for any pre-1492 Native People here in the Western Hemisphere? I think not, the “Jeopardy” theme song plays on while we wait.

“ 5) & I don't think I come close to the following def, except for hurting your feelings by calling LDS a 'cult' ”
You're kidding, right? Every post you make about Mormonism is filled with invective and mockery.

you think I mock you, just because I point out that LDS has no internal or external consistency? Tell me, when has the LDS ever lived according to the BoM? Its Trinitarian, is the LDS? It’s against polygamy, why wasn’t the early LDS? & a side question, if the US gov had not cracked down on polygamy, would the LDS still be polygamous today?

“ & of course, your's is so open ”
I like to think I have an open mind, yes, as a matter of fact. Do you?

explain what you mean? Do you mean, that if a mormon belief has no basis in fact, you would;
a) stop believing it or
b) hang on for dear life on any little thread or flimsy theory?

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I wrote

1) mormons claim 2 things that offend me & that they have to prove true
a) that 'mainstream' christians are heretics
b) that the 'mother' culture of the Mesoamerican people was Hebrew

you wrote:

The truth has always offended the world.

Marlin, don't look now, but the "truth" is getting a very non-LDS slant,
now you've done it, I told you not to look!

http://144.92.121.201/whsexhibit/doc.php

THE ANTS OF QUETZALCOATL
The opening begins with ants carrying a kernel of corn. In effect, the entire story is right here: the story of the continent and the history of indigenous knowledge.
The ant, particularly in Mesoamerican cultures, represents the means by which the people received Teo Cintli - their sacred maize or corn or sustenance.
San Ce Tojuan challenges 512 years of European history. Its objective is to counter a narrative - the master narrative of East-to-west U.S. history. That narrative begins with the Pilgrims and after a brief 3-day Thanksgiving White Sale, expands westward.
That said, it is also important to note that even the very method by which the story is told is contested.
First, there is no narrator. The people themselves tell their own stories. Not all the stories are linear or sequential, but together, the stories themselves are the weave. Each storyteller is the narrator. Each storyteller is the storyteller of a long ago forgotten tradition or story. The stories is the story. For that, no authority figure is needed to remind the audience of what they have just seen or heard. The theory here is that the people themselves can speak for themselves.
Secondly, and just as importantly, as previously mentioned, is the use of animals to tell the story. The ants of Quetzalcoatl are, in effect, the protagonists in this story of origins/migrations and connectedness. It is animals -- in this case insects -- from which humans first learned most everything in matters related to subsistence, survival and sustenance. The theory here is that indigenous knowledge is an unbroken chain of knowledge of millions of years - from plants to animals to human beings. The knowledge referred to is primarily about food, water and medicines.

funny, how when the Natives tell their story, its not BoM, why is that?