BOOK DEBATE: Hitler and Christianity
- Thread starter IamJoseph
- Start date
You opinions are not worth anything. I have kept it simple for you. But you have been unable and unwilling to understand. Oh and i do not belong to any protestant church either.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Last edited:
Scripture is the revealed will of God.
The will of God was revealed through them, in more ways then one.
What about African Christians or Asian Christians ect ect ect?
And what’s this about, "dance with a passion that not a brick shall stand in Jerusalem"??
What is that referring too?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
its not an opinion.
I think you kept it simple for yourself?
wrong I understand your argument I just reject it as simplistic, idiotic, and the product of an irrational mind.
you'd have to be because only a protestant could fuck up christianity the way you have.
People who are "Christians" start wars and this is the fault of Christianity. People who are atheists start wars and this is not the fault of atheism.
You are not as logical and objective as you like to imagine.
Here are some points I made to which you did not respond. These were not points about my belief system.
1. Germany was not a Christian country. Is that why Germany in the 20s had the largest and best organized Communist party in Europe, with millions voting for Communist candidates? I am not saying Germany was an atheist country, but it was very modern and secular.
Were Bert Brecht, Lotte Lenya, Georg Grosz, and Marlene Dietrich Christians?
Luther did not believe that the Aryans were the master race, that Germany should dominate the world, that Jews were a threat to Aryan racial purity.None of Hitler's main ideas about the Jewish menace are found in Luther.
2. About Steigmann-Gall's book linking Christianity to Hitler:
S-G's book is a false book full of errors, misstatements of fact, and distortions. He says nothing about the many secular thinkers who openly rejected the bible and presented many ideas fundamental to National Socialism.
3. About Hitler's Christianity
There are no teachings of Christ and the apostles that can be linked to Hitler's bizarre ideology, that had nothing to do with Christianity.
Show me one teaching in the Sermon on the Mount that has anything to do with Hitler.
4. About Hitler's religious language
S-G is ignorant of the fact that Hitler liked to use religious language on occasion to make people think he was respectable. In private, he despised Christianity as a religion for weaklings, and believed life was a Darwinian struggle in which people were only animals, ethics did not apply, and the strong survived and the weak died.
5. That Luther was not like Hitler
In all of his long and influential life Luther never took any actions to harm the Jews. If he hadn't lashed out in anger at the end of his life in an uncharacteristic tract it would be easy to see that all of the basic teachings of the Reformation had nothing to do with Hitler's bizarre ideology that only emerged centuries later in a totallydifferent context.
Norway, Denmark, and Holland had strong Protestant and even Lutheran traditions, and in no countires during the war were Jews given more support and help.
Also, Luther's reasons for anger at the Jews had nothing to do with the secular anti-Semitism that emerged in the 18th and 19th centuries.
You shouldlook into the modern secular anti-Semitism of Schopenhauer, Fichte, Kant, Wagner, and Nietzsche. Their reasons for hostility to Jews were vastly different.Nietzsche blamed the Jews for infecting Europe with the false values of Christianity.
6. That atheists have committed many crimes.
Then there are the wars of the atheists: the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Tibet, the horrors of Communism, so we better not believe in atheism.
7. Some claim all Europeans were Christians
Second, were the people who started all of the wars you mentioned trying to live by the teachings of Christ? You think "Christian" = "European."
8. You said Christians were insane. What should be done to those insane people? NO ANSWER VERY SUSPICIOUS
And you think Christians are insane. What do you think should be done with them? Tell the truth now, would you like to forcibly silence them if you could?
Looking at the rest of your post:
The first part of your sentence is a complete lie. I have no right whatever to tell you how to live. I do have the right to say what I believe is the meaning of life, but if you want to ingore me and do whatever things you want that is up to you - only you will have to answer to God on the day of judgment.
Secondly, I do not threaten you with damnation, I tell you though it is a reality. If I am wrong and there is no hell, what are you crying about? What if I threatened you with being turned into a pumpkin if you didn't sing the star spangled banner backwards three times under a full moon - would this bother you?
Secondly, the Stalinists tried to silence Christians - who "wiped them out"? If you believe we have the power to wipe you out you are living in a paranoid fantasy world.
I said "Then there are the wars of the atheists: the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Tibet, the horrors of Communism, so we better not believe in atheism."
You responded
So you deny that the Communists invaded Tibet and Afghanistan?
Or is it that you deny Russian and Chinese Communism were/are officially and overtly atheist?
Believing that those invasions occurred, and were committed by atheists, is psychotic? your definition of "psychotic' is totally irelevant.
It does appear that your method of argumentation consists primarily of name-calling and not substantive, logical, and rational response.
I said "Second, were the people who started all of the wars you mentioned trying to live by the teachings of Christ? "
You responded
Torturing people and burning them at the stake is a complete violation of the teachings and spirit of Christ.
Do you know what Christ taught? Have you ever read the bible?
You responded
So you deny that the Communists invaded Tibet and Afghanistan?
Or is it that you deny Russian and Chinese Communism were/are officially and overtly atheist?
Believing that those invasions occurred, and were committed by atheists, is psychotic? your definition of "psychotic' is totally irelevant.
It does appear that your method of argumentation consists primarily of name-calling and not substantive, logical, and rational response.
I said "Second, were the people who started all of the wars you mentioned trying to live by the teachings of Christ? "
You responded
Torturing people and burning them at the stake is a complete violation of the teachings and spirit of Christ.
Do you know what Christ taught? Have you ever read the bible?
Europeans were fighting wars long before the Reformation, when Europe was all Catholic. They were fighting with each other before the coming of Christianity. Wars have always occurred in every society in every phase of human history. Atheist governments have also started wars. And, if you think all of those european wars after the Reformation were wars about whose Christianity was right, and not the sort of wars for power that had bveen going on for thousands of years, you are completely ignorant of history.
Christians who ignore the Sermon on the Mount because they don't care for it do not believe in Christ, do not love Christ, and are not following Christ.
The bible plainly speaks of false Christians who talk about God but will not go to heaven.
Christianity spawned the passion plays, which invariably led to violence and hatred against Jews.
I know that atheists like to pride themselves on their rationality and objectivity, but my experience with atheists shows them to be highly subjective, and sometimes so poisoned by hatred of God and Jesus that they cannot think logically when it comes to any religious question.
Thanks for the Ad hominem. If we are going to do that I might as well point out the connection between the American Fascism of Neo-conservatism and it's connection with the religious right.
Last edited:
No I am using the same standard for "atheist wars" you are using and putting them on theits most wars. you'll note all the wars I mentioned where becauise of chirstianity because things like the hundred years war and ww2 while fought by christians weren't because of it. just because an atheist(which many of your alleged atheists aren't) doesn't make it an atheist war.
Photizo, if you are trying to point out religious opposition to Nazism, that is well known. It does not contradict the existence of a pro-Nazi element in German Christianity, or the ideological connections between them.
No, I'm not trying to point out "religious opposition to Nazism"...if I applied the name "Darwinism" to what in fact was "Creationism" people would object, no? In the same way, labeling something as Christian ("a pro-nazi element in German Christianity") when what is labeled is clearly inconsistent with how the Word of God defines "Christian" is, then, essentially meaningless--regardless of the insistence by others to the contrary.
Last edited:
It's not clearly inconsistent. In many ways, it's consistent.
At the time of Hitlers ascent into Nazism he was an Atheist...An Atheist who dabbled here and there in the darkness to search for thing which were not there BUT the evidence point to non-Religious more than anything else. Chrisitnaity had a presence in Germany so it goes without saying that Hitler knew about it. Mussolini was, beyond no doubt, a well documented Atheist as well. What does this mean, in the broader scope? Nothing at all.