BOOK DEBATE: Hitler and Christianity

[Joe K.]

I never said the ideological basis for Nazism and that validated it was limited to Christianity. I also think the Nazis misinterpreted Nietzsche. Have you ever read The Case of Wagner: A Musicians' Problem? In it Nietzsche rebukes Wagner and his anti-Semitism.

In your earlier post you said

From what I understand, it was believed by European Christians that the Jews were at fault because they didn't except the message of Jesus (as) or him being messiah and along with this it was believed it was the Jews whom killed him thus they were guilty of deicide. As for Martin Luther, I think initially he didn't hate the Jews but when they didn't accept the message of Jesus (as) and went on to practice their own faith he became enraged and that's when his anti-Jewish beliefs/comments started. I also agree that this anti-Jew business of the Nazis and Hitler wasn't new and was an continuation of historical European prejudice.

This plainly emphasizes Christian origins of anti-Semitism. Modern secular thinkers like Fichte, Schopenhauer, Kant and others did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God and they did not believe the Jews were under God's wrath for rejecting him. Their objections to the Jews were very different, and were based on secular reasoning.

About Nietzsche, have you read his book The Antichrist? There he argues that Christianity is false and bad, it has corrupted Europe, and he blames this on the Jews. He also describes the Jews as being master manipulators of decadence, undermining society. He objected to Wagner's anti-Semitism because it was the wrong kind of anti-Semitism.

 

[Adstar]

Simple.

Hitler believed in and engaged in Warfare.

Christians do not engage in Warfare.

Therefore Hitler is disqualified from being a Christian.

End of discussion.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[IamJoseph]

Christians do not engage in Warfare.[/QUOTE

Which planet's history is this referring to? :bugeye:

 

[Adstar]

Christians do not engage in Warfare.[/QUOTE

Which planet's history is this referring to? :bugeye:

A true Christian believes Jesus. All others who calim Jesus but disagree with His teachings are false. No matter how many of them claim to be followers of Jesus. I don't care if 99.99% of the false christians of this world embrace the catholic doctrine of justifiable war. I don't care if their biblical twists and organisations dominate what the world thinks Christianity is. The Word of Jesus is the cornerstone of what Christianity is, in the end that Measure is the only one with eternal value and all who reject it will recieve this reply from Jesus on the day of Judgemnent.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[pjdude1219]

Christians do not engage in Warfare.

Which planet's history is this referring to? :bugeye:

he is using his one fucked up definition of christianity.

 

[pjdude1219]

Simple.

Hitler believed in and engaged in Warfare.

Christians do not engage in Warfare.

Therefore Hitler is disqualified from being a Christian.

End of discussion.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

the reconquesta, the middle eastern crusades, the baltic crusades, the 30 years war, the(french) wars of religion, The Schmalkaldic Wars, the Eighty Years' War, the first and second war of Kappel, the english civil war, the scottish civil war, and the conquest of Ireland plus all the following rebellions. what a surprise your wrong. christians engage in warfare almost all religions believe in war. No on behalf of all intelligent people I beseech you to quit using your false definition of christian.

 

[(Q)]

You think Christians are by definition uninformed? I am happy to have this opportunity to inform you that you are mistaken. Don't be so narrow minded and intolerant as to arbitrarily dismiss people who look at life differently from you.

Insanity and delusion from so-called "informed Christians" is not a way at looking at life, it is a way of destroying life.

 

[Joe K.]

the reconquesta, the middle eastern crusades, the baltic crusades, the 30 years war, the(french) wars of religion, The Schmalkaldic Wars, the Eighty Years' War, the first and second war of Kappel, the english civil war, the scottish civil war, and the conquest of Ireland plus all the following rebellions. what a surprise your wrong. christians engage in warfare almost all religions believe in war. No on behalf of all intelligent people I beseech you to quit using your false definition of christian.

Then there are the wars of the atheists: the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Tibet, the horrors of Communism, so we better not believe in atheism.

Second, were the people who started all of the wars you mentioned trying to live by the teachings of Christ? You think "Christian" = "European."

 

[Joe K.]

Insanity and delusion from so-called "informed Christians" is not a way at looking at life, it is a way of destroying life.

You ignored the many valid points I raised. The best defense is a good offense, huh? You atheists have destroyed a lot more life, not surprising since you think people are only animals. Atheists have been vastly more brutal and vicious in modern history than any Christians.

And you think Christians are insane. What do you think should be done with them? Tell the truth now, would you like to forcibly silence them if you could?

 

[pjdude1219]

Then there are the wars of the atheists: the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Tibet, the horrors of Communism, so we better not believe in atheism.

2 things. first the wars I mentioned were a direct result of christianity the wars you mention aren't the direct product of athiesism. secondly by your definition of how religious beliefs equate to war those aren't athiest wars but theist wars.

Second, were the people who started all of the wars you mentioned trying to live by the teachings of Christ?

yes

You think "Christian" = "European."

all the religious wars of chirstianity were in europe.


lastly I was never making a claim that we shouldn't believe in christianity or what not but refuting adstar's foolish notion that christians don't engage in warfare.

 

[(Q)]

You ignored the many valid points I raised.

I saw nothing valid in your posts at all. Where would get the silly notion your irrational belief system is valid?

The best defense is a good offense, huh? You atheists have destroyed a lot more life, not surprising since you think people are only animals. Atheists have been vastly more brutal and vicious in modern history than any Christians.

See, you're just making stuff up. Nothing valid at all.

And you think Christians are insane. What do you think should be done with them? Tell the truth now, would you like to forcibly silence them if you could?

Aww, you believe you have every right to tell us how to live and what to believe, and if we don't you'll threaten us with eternal damnation. Of course, you do little more than make up lies to support your argument and your belief system. I'm sure if anyone would forcibly try to silence the "good" Christians of the world, you'd wipe us all out in an instant.

 

[(Q)]

Then there are the wars of the atheists: the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Tibet, the horrors of Communism, so we better not believe in atheism.

Wow, your psychotic belief system appears to have you hooked, lined and sinkered.

Second, were the people who started all of the wars you mentioned trying to live by the teachings of Christ?

Most definitely. You would have been tortured and burned at the stake for repeating such heresies. LOL!

 

[pjdude1219]

Most definitely. You would have been tortured and burned at the stake for repeating such heresies. LOL!

if you will note almost every single war I mentioned took place during or after the reformation and were wars about who was christianity was right

 

[synthesizer-patel]

Show me one teaching in the Sermon on the Mount that has anything to do with Hitler.

to be fair though that doesn't tell us much at all - the sermon on the mount is in general far too liberal a manifesto for a great deal of christians to stomach - so they ignore it in favour of the more whacky blood and guts stuff in the OT

 

[Adstar]

the reconquesta, the middle eastern crusades, the baltic crusades, the 30 years war, the(french) wars of religion, The Schmalkaldic Wars, the Eighty Years' War, the first and second war of Kappel, the english civil war, the scottish civil war, and the conquest of Ireland plus all the following rebellions. what a surprise your wrong. christians engage in warfare almost all religions believe in war. No on behalf of all intelligent people I beseech you to quit using your false definition of christian.

Simple they where all false Christians.

And your not intelligent enough to understand that the founder of a faith defines what that faith is.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

to be fair though that doesn't tell us much at all - the sermon on the mount is in general far too liberal a manifesto for a great deal of christians to stomach - so they ignore it in favour of the more whacky blood and guts stuff in the OT

If they ignore the teachings of Jesus in His sermon on the mount then how can they be called Christian.

They cannot in truth be called Followers of the Messiah Jesus. He is not their Lord.

Not only do they not follow His teachings, they preach that it is just and right to disobey His teachings.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[pjdude1219]

Simple they where all false Christians.

And your not intelligent enough to understand that the founder of a faith defines what that faith is.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Catholic or the orthodox faiths are the founding neither of which come close to your definition. they weren't false christians. please quit your trolling by repeating this absurdity. I'm sorry but no matter how much you want it to be true 99% of christians through out history weren't false.

And your not intelligent enough to understand that the founder of a faith defines what that faith is.

I understand it but your the fool who is defining the faith counter to that of its founder.

 

[pjdude1219]

If they ignore the teachings of Jesus in His sermon on the mount then how can they be called Christian.

They cannot in truth be called Followers of the Messiah Jesus. He is not their Lord.

Not only do they not follow His teachings, they preach that it is just and right to disobey His teachings.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

um you aren't following the sermon on the mount you are judging others and by your fucked up reinterpertation of christianity could be considered to be a false prophet.



Now I'm going to keep it simple. catholics, orthodox christians, and even delusion protestants like your self are all christians. you can engage in warfare and be christian.

 

[IamJoseph]

A true Christian believes Jesus. All others who calim Jesus but disagree with His teachings are false.

How did you arrive at such a conclusion leap - do you not believe there is wisdom and rightiousness in all nations - or that a person can be good without the Gospels?

The Word of Jesus is the cornerstone of what Christianity is, in the end that Measure is the only one with eternal value and all who reject it will recieve this reply from Jesus on the day of Judgemnent.

What word?! And what if there is no reply - or what happens till one actually comes - and no whisperings allowed via 2nd hand reportings this time?

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

But Christians have negated the will of the Father! Hello?

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

So you agree there can be false prophets - but not so when it comes to the Gospels? That's clever. But I have an even more clever idea: why not wait for Moses to affirm or deny what the Moses said and meant - this will eliminate any false prophet scenario like no other, and the truth will free us all? I mean, if you would not accept accept Mohmmed - why ask others to do what you cannot?

IMHO, the message transcends the messenger - the reason any messenger was sent from on high. The letter - not the postman.

 

[IamJoseph]

Simple they where all false Christians.

And your not intelligent enough to understand that the founder of a faith defines what that faith is.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Scripture and beliefs are tests - to see how one turns. Nothing more. The greatest prophets, such as Abraham & Moses, were not obedient, and strived with God when they were tested. European Christians must learn from there - not dance with a passion that not a brick shall stand in Jerusalem.