Body Signals Redux: Proving Mormonism

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

Believe it or not, I do agree that it's possible that I am misinterpreting TOBS, or that I am a special case, or some other misunderstanding that would invalidate or modify my findings. I plan to pursue a B.S. in Natural Sciences to further research this matter scientifically. My conclusions are subject to change based on what my research will yield.

with all due respect, i think that would be a considerable waste of money as the education alone would cost a significant amount of money and, demonstrated by your posts and history, you will not be able to be objective, nor would you accept the requisite change necesarry when your research doesn't yield the results you hope for and already seek validation for.

this is, of course, validated by your next posts when you state

We have to realize that the ancients had their own unique worldviews, societal and cultural practices, etc. and God spoke to their limited understandings the things they needed to know that aren't necessarily still relevant in our day

or

No one but God knows when the Second Coming will be

i would highly recommend starting a cult instead - you will find much more enjoyment and likely make far more money than in your attempt at a STEM career
you will definitely find more people who believe your particular brand of "logic"

How, uh, very clever. Seriously though, can you prove me wrong?

you commented this one to @Dr. Toad - but i can answer it

First off, that is the "Celestial Teapot" argument. (see link)

next then is to prove you wrong... and yes, it is actually very easy: simply state the opposite.

If you make a claim without evidence, then the counter claim (reciprocal) without evidence holds the exact same validity. If you say something "is" without being able to prove it with evidence than simply saying something "is not" is equally valid and holds the same truth.

the cornerstone of the scientific method is:
the claim + physical evidence supporting claim + it must be compatible with observation & past validated knowledge

dismissal of a baseless claim is not prejudice or wrong, it is required by the scientific method

this is important to know, especially as you've claimed you want to prove this with the scientific method and a BS in a STEM field
consider this your first lesson in the scientific method
if that is too difficult then i highly recommend taking my advice and going with being a cult leader, not a STEM grad of any kind

I don't want anyone to unthinkingly just accept TOBS without question or testing. The Bible tells us to "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." Test the body signals, read the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and ask God in prayer if the scriptures you've read are true in the name of Christ -- see James 1:5 in the Bible and Moroni 10:3-5 in the Book of Mormon.

edit, and important for you to know regarding this above argument: read also JER 31:27 - 37

that single read should completely alter your perspective on the above... if it doesn't then you're not able to be helped without medication and perhaps large doses of current through certain cranial stimulus points

 

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

If it happens tomorrow, we're ALL in trouble.
God and the IDer are one and the same.

if you believe this then you are truly f*cked...
especially considering the one thing the universe is not is "intelligently designed"!
watch this and learn about reality - there is a video on the link: http://aattp.org/watch-neil-degrasse-tyson-intelligent-design-is-stupid-video/

i mean... just on planet earth alone, 99% of all life that ever existed is extinct!
the whole planet is actually hostile to humans!
our eyes actually suck just compared to most of the animal kingdom, and we require constant food to maintain our temperature and ability to function!

so if you "look" for what is intelligent you will find your bias confirmed... however it will also blind you to reality around you that shows you how unintelligent the design of just the human alone is. need i talk about the whole entertainment complex next to the sewer system humans use for reproduction and or waste excretion?

 

[Michael 345]

helped without medication and perhaps large doses of current through certain cranial stimulus points

I was thinking more the rubber tyre hammer.

Kinder.

I've helped doctors give Electrical Shock Therapy.

And looked after the patient after.

Rubber hammer cheaper and kinder with quicker recovery.

I know I said I would not poke the bear but the reply to my pinkie question puts him back in stupidity category not mental illness.

whole entertainment complex next to the sewer system humans use for reproduction and or waste excretion?

Not to mention those species where such systems are not next to each other but are fully combined.

Humpty Dumpty back
Poe. I'm with him

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I found this in Wiki.
I was looking for other relationships between religion and memtal illness problems rather than schizophrenia hoeever I did think the following msy be of interest to members.

"The relationship between religion and schizophrenia is of particular interest topsychiatrists because of the similarities between religious experiences andpsychotic episodes; religious experiences often involve auditoryand/or visual hallucinations, and those with schizophrenia commonly report similar hallucinations, along with a variety beliefs that are commonly recognized by modern medical practitioners as delusional.[1] In general, religion has been found to have "both a protective and a risk increasing effect" for schizophrenia.[2]

A common report from those with schizophrenia is some type of a religious belief that many medical practitioners consider to be delusional - such as the belief they are divine beings or prophets, God is talking to them, they are possessed by demons, etc.[3][4][5]Active and adaptive coping skills in subjects with residual schizophrenia are associated with a sound spiritual, religious, or personal belief system.[6] In a study of patients with schizophrenia that had been previously admitted to a hospital, 24% had what the medical field refers to as religious delusions.

Trans-cultural studies have found that such religious beliefs, which often may not be associated with reality, are much more common in patients with schizophrenia who identify as Christian and/or reside in predominately Christian areas such as Europe or North America.[7][8] By comparison, patients in Japan much more commonly have delusions surrounding matters of shame and slander,[7] and in Pakistan matters of paranoia regarding relatives and neighbors.[8]"


I think religion could cause problems generated from feelings of guilt and cause problems with matters relating to sex, and I have read stuff about that but can't offer a link yet.

But my point is Billy, with respect, I think your fixation on your idea could be seen as delusional and it is hard to recognise if one is delusional, it could not hurt to talk to a doctor.
There is no shame in doing so...and on the positive if the doctor says all clear it will give you confidence to follow your ideas.
But honestly Billy as fascinatingly as your idea sounds it really sets off alarm bells.
It is not right to think this way you could accept that.
The bible tells you not to listen to demons, I don't know where but proceeding on the basis one can justify anything with the bible, yet you let this demon convince you God wants to talk to you this way.
Read your bible it will tell you that God does not talk this way.
Go to the doctor and get some medicine to get rid of the demon.
You posted here because secretly you are calling for help.
I have been guided to help you.
Who caused the post o000000000000)0)000000
Not me. It was a sign that I am helping you.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

Who you gonna call?

Religion Busters.

Humpty Dumpty need say no more.
Poe gets out his dust buster to help

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Who you gonna call?

Religion Busters.

I could offer a service to get rid of demons, cleanse the soul and uplift the spirit and sadly would probably get seven days a week work.
Yet helping with tax returns starve in a month.
A mate years ago wanted me to come in on a religious thing..he worked out we could make more money than anything else he could think of...but it was a scam.
He finally opened a lonely hearts club ramped it up to needing two floors in the city.
But I lost touch with him after he went to jail.
He accidently killed his mistress when drunk, sad because he had to go to jail for three years, and his family suffered.
But he would have made a great preacher.
Alex

 

[Billy Baxter]

with all due respect, i think that would be a considerable waste of money as the education alone would cost a significant amount of money and, demonstrated by your posts and history, you will not be able to be objective, nor would you accept the requisite change necesarry when your research doesn't yield the results you hope for and already seek validation for.

That's the wonderful thing about getting a good education, though: you learn new ways of perception and perspective. I've wanted to get a scientific degree for a long time, and so what if others pooh-pooh my outside-of-the-box way of thinking? Scientific thinking--and for that matter, new ideas in every discipline--have been similarly dismissed by closed-minded individuals. They forced Galileo to publicly recant his idea that the Earth orbits the sun, for example. Just because an idea doesn't fit your (or my) worldview doesn't make further research fruitless.

next then is to prove you wrong... and yes, it is actually very easy: simply state the opposite.

If you make a claim without evidence, then the counter claim (reciprocal) without evidence holds the exact same validity. If you say something "is" without being able to prove it with evidence than simply saying something "is not" is equally valid and holds the same truth.

Who said I don't have evidence?

the cornerstone of the scientific method is:
the claim + physical evidence supporting claim + it must be compatible with observation & past validated knowledge

dismissal of a baseless claim is not prejudice or wrong, it is required by the scientific method

this is important to know, especially as you've claimed you want to prove this with the scientific method and a BS in a STEM field
consider this your first lesson in the scientific method

The claim: God sometimes communicates with man through body signals.
check
physical evidence supporting claim: decades of personal observation, correlation and experience.
check
compatible with observation and validated knowledge: yep
check

edit, and important for you to know regarding this above argument: read also JER 31:27 - 37

that single read should completely alter your perspective on the above... if it doesn't then you're not able to be helped without medication and perhaps large doses of current through certain cranial stimulus points

Please explain your point in quoting Jeremiah--I don't get it.

 

[Billy Baxter]

I know I said I would not poke the bear but the reply to my pinkie question puts him back in stupidity category not mental illness.

Uh...thanks?

 

[Billy Baxter]

I found this in Wiki.
I was looking for other relationships between religion and memtal illness problems rather than schizophrenia hoeever I did think the following msy be of interest to members.

"The relationship between religion and schizophrenia is of particular interest topsychiatrists because of the similarities between religious experiences andpsychotic episodes; religious experiences often involve auditoryand/or visual hallucinations, and those with schizophrenia commonly report similar hallucinations, along with a variety beliefs that are commonly recognized by modern medical practitioners as delusional.[1] In general, religion has been found to have "both a protective and a risk increasing effect" for schizophrenia.[2]

A common report from those with schizophrenia is some type of a religious belief that many medical practitioners consider to be delusional - such as the belief they are divine beings or prophets, God is talking to them, they are possessed by demons, etc.[3][4][5]Active and adaptive coping skills in subjects with residual schizophrenia are associated with a sound spiritual, religious, or personal belief system.[6] In a study of patients with schizophrenia that had been previously admitted to a hospital, 24% had what the medical field refers to as religious delusions.

Trans-cultural studies have found that such religious beliefs, which often may not be associated with reality, are much more common in patients with schizophrenia who identify as Christian and/or reside in predominately Christian areas such as Europe or North America.[7][8] By comparison, patients in Japan much more commonly have delusions surrounding matters of shame and slander,[7] and in Pakistan matters of paranoia regarding relatives and neighbors.[8]"


I think religion could cause problems generated from feelings of guilt and cause problems with matters relating to sex, and I have read stuff about that but can't offer a link yet.

But my point is Billy, with respect, I think your fixation on your idea could be seen as delusional and it is hard to recognise if one is delusional, it could not hurt to talk to a doctor.
There is no shame in doing so...and on the positive if the doctor says all clear it will give you confidence to follow your ideas.
But honestly Billy as fascinatingly as your idea sounds it really sets off alarm bells.
It is not right to think this way you could accept that.
The bible tells you not to listen to demons, I don't know where but proceeding on the basis one can justify anything with the bible, yet you let this demon convince you God wants to talk to you this way.
Read your bible it will tell you that God does not talk this way.
Go to the doctor and get some medicine to get rid of the demon.
You posted here because secretly you are calling for help.
I have been guided to help you.
Who caused the post o000000000000)0)000000
Not me. It was a sign that I am helping you.
Alex

Thank you, Alex, for your kind words and advice. I really do appreciate your concern, but I'm sticking to my guns on this issue. I think I can change the world with TOBS.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Thank you, Alex, for your kind words and advice. I really do appreciate your concern, but I'm sticking to my guns on this issue. I think I can change the world with TOBS.

Well may I suggest a book.
If it becomes a best seller, and it could, you will become rich.

When you become rich folk will no longer call you a nutter but merely call you eccentric.

Could you help put me at ease and give a specific example of your idea working in a real situation.

Say you meet someone does your left leg go off which is God letting you know this new acquaintance is evil.
I would do the science course.
However I should point out that Intelligent Design is science, it seeks to show there was a designer and that to speculate upon who the designer may be is indeed not scientific, so you will have to withdraw your claim that God and the Designer are one and the same...that will upset the Intelligent Design scientists if you do not withdraw your speculation.

Yell me when you read my posts does your right side go off or the left?

However I still suggest a trip to a doctor, for one you could get a letter saying you have no mental problems, plus you may be able to help him work out problems folk have with left side pain, heck he would be able to get those lefties out of his surgery, those evil sods be gone.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

I could offer a service to get rid of demons, cleanse the soul and uplift the spirit and sadly would probably get seven days a week work.

Sad you lost touch with friend when you both couldn't get Exorcist Inc. up and running.

Here's a bubble thought I had while contemplating my navel.

A atrocity happens in the world.
The pope denounces the atrocity.
My 5 mates and I do the same over coffee at the shopping mall.
The pope goes on world wide TV to vent his anger.
The local TV ask us 6 for our views as part of the local TV series The Views of the Man in the Street.
Here's the question
Are we just as moral as the pope or does his position give him more morality?
If we are equal in morality why does he get all the attention?
TV stations could save a bundle by not having a vatican correspondent.
Just nip outside and ask a passer by.

Humpty Dumpty wants to be asked his views.
Poe never understands the questions

 

[Michael 345]

First off, that is the "Celestial Teapot" argument

They won't find it going in orbit around the sun.

They will find it on the table of the Mad Hatters Tea Party.

Not to be confused with the American Tea Party who are far more cookcoo.

Humpty Dumpty loves tea parties as long as he is not part of the finger food.
Poe loves any party

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

The local TV ask us 6 for our views as part of the local TV series The Views of the Man in the Street.

You have to be more open and tell how you are actually the three wise men,who followed the star, times two with mystical powers and Gods phone number.
We all know truth is stranger than fiction, right, and we all know God would not lie, so its not six men ( avoid six its an evil number) we are three men times two which is twice as smart as three wise men.
When their eyes glaze over you know you have got them, call for a praise the lord, send out the Gods Golden Bucket, and lay it down brothers.
Great idea and I think we can franchise it.
I forgot...morality sure work it in there just make sure it generates guilt or fear or both if possible.
Alex

 

[Billy Baxter]

Well may I suggest a book.
If it becomes a best seller, and it could, you will become rich.

When you become rich folk will no longer call you a nutter but merely call you eccentric.

Money is only of minor importance. I'll get the education and do some research first, then put up a website, then a book in that order.

Could you help put me at ease and give a specific example of your idea working in a real situation.

Okay, here's a good one:

Amir al-Achmed is a radical Islamist who has recently joined ISIS. He enthusiastically volunteers to become a suicide bomber who will attempt to blow up the Saint Louis Gateway Arch. Allah will reward me greatly for destroying the Christian infidels' work of architecture and for attacking the Great Satan! he thinks to himself. Immediately his left cheek muscles have a violent spasm, indicating that Allah didn't say that. He ignores the spasms and straps on a portable bomb under his clothing. So what if there is collateral damage and innocent people die? I will rest today in glory after I destroy the infidels! His left eyelid itches and burns, but he absent-mindedly rubs it and proceeds to the Arch's crowded elevators. He rides to the top of the Arch and prepares to set off the bomb. Just as he is about to explode it, he notices many small children looking out the windows. Forgive me, Allah, he thinks, Icannot do this, not even for glory and paradise. Amir rides down the elevators without setting off the bomb as his right ear pulses intensely.

Say you meet someone does your left leg go off which is God letting you know this new acquaintance is evil.

No, it doesn't work that way.

 

[Michael 345]

Okay, here's a good one:

Amir al-Achmed is a radical Islamist who has recently joined ISIS. He enthusiastically volunteers to become a suicide bomber who will attempt to blow up the Saint Louis Gateway Arch. Allah will reward me greatly for destroying the Christian infidels' work of architecture and for attacking the Great Satan! he thinks to himself. Immediately his left cheek muscles have a violent spasm, indicating that Allah didn't say that. He ignores the spasms and straps on a portable bomb under his clothing. So what if there is collateral damage and innocent people die? I will rest today in glory after I destroy the infidels! His left eyelid itches and burns, but he absent-mindedly rubs it and proceeds to the Arch's crowded elevators. He rides to the top of the Arch and prepares to set off the bomb. Just as he is about to explode it, he notices many small children looking out the windows. Forgive me, Allah, he thinks, Icannot do this, not even for glory and paradise. Amir rides down the elevators without setting off the bomb as his right ear pulses intensely.

So best way to handle such idiots is to confuse them with a stun gun taser pistol.

While they lay twitching on the ground trying to work out what gods signals mean a brave bomb disposal attaches a string to the trigger and backs off.

Cover the idiot with as many sand bags as you can.

Pull the string.

No, it doesn't work that way.

Works for me.

Only drawback is 72 disappointed virgins.

Humpty Dumpty likes a sandpit.
Poe gets lost in one.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Amir rides down the elevators without setting off the bomb as his right ear pulses intensely.

Thank you for providing an example but what I was seeking was something that has happened to you.
Where God has guided you by talking to you via body parts.
And if our terrorist mate had no religion he would not have even thought to kill in the name of religion.
Do you hate or dislike atheists.
Do you hate or dislike other Christians who are of a different sect...say catholics or church of England folk.
How old do you think the Earth is?
Look I understand I am probably getting to personal so if you don't wish to answer I will understand.
Alex
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

No, it doesn't work that way.

Is this Morse Code of Twitches like the Morse Code of dots and dashes?

Has the code changed over the years?

Is the code International?

Or even Intergalactical if god has another bunch of life forms on other planets?

Do flies sin when they shit on my food?

Have you ever tried to decipher someone twitching on the floor before you found out they were epileptic?

Someone mention food. Humpty Dumpty wants some.
Poe is full from the Mad Hatters Tea Party.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Immediately his left cheek muscles have a violent spasm, indicating that Allah didn't say that.

Why couldn't Allah cause the left side of his body to be paralyzed such that he could not walk or is he happy to let this fool decide he will kill or not ...forget the victims.
You probably wonder why folk chose to be atheists.
I would like to believe in God simply to reject him as being cruel and simply uncaring.
If I had the power of God I would prevent cruelty to humans and animals, the inoccent who are just supposed to take it on the basis its Gods will...just because he wants to be cruel and hypocritical in his, stated by ancient superstitious fools, love for his little humans.
I just can not understand how anyone with the power can let a child suffer, or a little animal suffer or let anything suffer and I think to see the suffering in the world one can reasonably conclude there is no God.....what else could we conclude... He cares for us?
Yes but we need to die and suffer.
I don't care if they all get to go to heaven there is no need for suffering.
I hope Jesus gets here before I die because I want to tell him his dad is a cruel made up mythical entity.
Alex

 

[Billy Baxter]

So best way to handle such idiots is to confuse them with a stun gun taser pistol.

While they lay twitching on the ground trying to work out what gods signals mean a brave bomb disposal attaches a string to the trigger and backs off.

Cover the idiot with as many sand bags as you can.

Pull the string.



Works for me.

Only drawback is 72 disappointed virgins.

Humpty Dumpty likes a sandpit.
Poe gets lost in one.

Thanks for the much-needed laugh!

Poe wonders why people have branded him "Poe"

 

[Michael 345]

Thanks for the much-needed laugh!

Poe wonders why people have branded him "Poe"

Humpty Dumpty is the one who wonders.

Poe follows his law.

Poe's law is an Internet adage that states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views

Humpty Dumpty sees Poe following Humptys method.