bitterness and atheism?

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Of course, wilful "ignorance" is always difficult to understand.

but to them its not ignorance because its how they were raised to think.

Third time today - no they didn't. The Greeks knew it was a sphere and everyone after that knew it...

and the people before that thought it was what shape ?

Slight difference between religious teaching and the Big Bang.
Religion teaches that things are so because the bible says so, and don't ask any more questions.
The Big Bang is supported by evidence and that evidence is available to anyone who wants to check.
And anyone with a better explanation is welcome to propose it.

i have put forth a better theory that has no flaws and people dont take it as serious as the big bang, its called existence is infinite and had no start. see its a simple concept with no holes. but my guess is its "too simple" for some peoples tastes. they want something elaborate and fancy like string theory.

That's what's so hard to understand - why believe something if there is nothing to support that belief?
Why base your life in something that cannot be shown to be true and has had so many holes knocked into it.
The bible has consistently been shown to be incorrect on numerous things and each time religion says "Okay. That bit is wrong, but we'll go in believing everything else".
And then another bit goes, and another...

its not hard to understand if you step out of your own mindset for a second. you have to put yourself in another persons shoes (or sandals) for a mo. they were raised that way (most of them) and they are closed because of things being installed into the mind as a young child, and its hard to shake off. and if you finally do shake it off as an adult or teenager, you start to rebel against it and go to the other extream of hating god and religion etc etc,

Yeah, but WHY???

because some people were raised that way as i stated above, but another reason is because it makes them happy. people are afraid of death man, they need some help in life and are not strong enough to face the fact that they will not exist, and they will never see there family every again when they die, it makes people sad to think of the universe as cold and ruthless. and they want life to have a meaning and not be so harsh man,

let people comfort themselves if they cant handle the other alternative. its cruel to make people unhappy if they prefer to believe in an afterlife.

Well yeah, but you're a nutter

yeah but one thats open to other ways of thinking


peace.

 

[Oli]

but to them its not ignorance because its how they were raised to think.

So we're back to indoctrination - children being taught WHAT to think, not HOW.

and the people before that thought it was what shape ?

Yep, several thousand years ago they thought it was flat.
Because they didn't look - once they thought about it it became obvious.
They thought for themselves rather just accepting face value.

i have put forth a better theory that has no flaws and people dont take it as serious as the big bang, its called existence is infinite and had no start. see its a simple concept with no holes. but my guess is its "too simple" for some peoples tastes. they want something elaborate and fancy like string theory.

Because it doesn't answer the questions that the Big Bang does...
Expand it, cover background radiation and all the other stuff then put it forward.

its not hard to understand if you step out of your own mindset for a second. you have to put yourself in another persons shoes (or sandals) for a mo. they were raised that way (most of them) and they are closed because of things being installed into the mind as a young child, and its hard to shake off. and if you finally do shake it off as an adult or teenager, you start to rebel against it and go to the other extream of hating god and religion etc etc,

But it IS hard (impossible).
I've never really accepted what I've been told without checking what I can.
Maybe I was unusually lucky in that my parents never indoctrinated me.

because some people were raised that way as i stated above, but another reason is because it makes them happy. people are afraid of death man, they need some help in life and are not strong enough to face the fact that they will not exist, and they will never see there family every again when they die, it makes people sad to think of the universe as cold and ruthless. and they want life to have a meaning and not be so harsh man,

I think it would be nice if life had a meaning, but I'm not going to start believing unprovable things just to make me feel better about it: it would always be in the back of my mind that it WAS unprovable.

let people comfort themselves if they cant handle the other alternative. its cruel to make people unhappy if they prefer to believe in an afterlife.

So we let them carry on with their delusions (to which, of course, are attached things like, go to church, "sin", and various other things)?
Especially when they come round to my door telling me why I should "accept Jesus".

yeah but one thats open to other ways of thinking

So am I. If there's any evidence.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

So we're back to indoctrination - children being taught WHAT to think, not HOW..

yup i dont agree with it either.

Yep, several thousand years ago they thought it was flat.
Because they didn't look - once they thought about it it became obvious.
They thought for themselves rather just accepting face value.

not just several thousand years ago people though this more recently aswell. your thinking of the old mesopotamian views? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Because it doesn't answer the questions that the Big Bang does...
Expand it, cover background radiation and all the other stuff then put it forward.

i could say in my infinite existing universe there has been a multitude of explosions and plasmic reactions. what part of the big bang proves that the universe was not already huge before it started to expand in all directions?

But it IS hard (impossible).
I've never really accepted what I've been told without checking what I can.
Maybe I was unusually lucky in that my parents never indoctrinated me

.

your lucky as am i lucky, my parents did not indoctrinate me either. and maybe thats one reason we have emotionless calm debates about the universe, like this one.

I think it would be nice if life had a meaning, but I'm not going to start believing unprovable things just to make me feel better about it: it would always be in the back of my mind that it WAS unprovable.

i have the same problem with the concept of god. thats why i dont believe in gods, but i still think it is possible that a god can exist.

So we let them carry on with their delusions (to which, of course, are attached things like, go to church, "sin", and various other things)?
Especially when they come round to my door telling me why I should "accept Jesus".

i dont know, should people be allowed to convert others? i dont like the idea of converting people.

So am I. If there's any evidence

im open to opinions aslong as they dont seem illogical to me.

peace,

 

[Oli]

not just several thousand years ago people though this more recently aswell. your thinking of the old mesopotamian views?

More recently?
How recent: that link gives a date of 560 AD as accepting the Earth was round (in Europe - and we were always somewhat backward).
Um, okay the Chinese though it was square until the 17th century, and there are a few nutters kicking about who still think it is...

i could say in my infinite existing universe there has been a multitude of explosions and plasmic reactions. what part of the big bang proves that the universe was not already huge before it started to expand in all directions?

Then you'd have to define "plasmic reactions" and show where they are...
Because the background radiation is evenly spread - so it must have spread with us - and show why it started to expand..

your lucky as am i lucky, my parents did not indoctrinate me either. and maybe thats one reason we have emotionless calm debates about the universe, like this one.

*snigger*

i have the same problem with the concept of god. thats why i dont believe in gods, but i still think it is possible that a god can exist.

It's possible, but so is my car turning into a fish...

i dont know, should people be allowed to convert others? i dont like the idea of converting people.

It depends what you mean by "convert" - pointing out errors of reasoning or logic is conversion?
What about (something I come across every day) an engineer who firmly believes he's right, and refuses to check his figure because I've told him he's wrong?
Is that conversion?
Or Jehovah's Witnesses (or Mormons or whoever) turning up on my doorstep telling me I'm going to hell unless I subscribe to their particular delusion?

im open to opinions aslong as they dont seem illogical to me.

Da, that's the problem - illogicality.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

More recently?
How recent: that link gives a date of 560 AD as accepting the Earth was round (in Europe - and we were always somewhat backward).
Um, okay the Chinese though it was square until the 17th century, and there are a few nutters kicking about who still think it is....

yeah i was just pointing out that it was more recent than a few thousand years ago. the square earth is my favorite, its just how it is on a map.

Then you'd have to define "plasmic reactions" and show where they are...
Because the background radiation is evenly spread - so it must have spread with us - and show why it started to expand..

yeah i will get back to you on that

*snigger*

It's possible, but so is my car turning into a fish...

yeah not very logical though,

It depends what you mean by "convert" - pointing out errors of reasoning or logic is conversion?
What about (something I come across every day) an engineer who firmly believes he's right, and refuses to check his figure because I've told him he's wrong?
Is that conversion?
Or Jehovah's Witnesses (or Mormons or whoever) turning up on my doorstep telling me I'm going to hell unless I subscribe to their particular delusion?

pointing out errors is not conversion ofcourse not, you should point out how he is wrong, if he chooses not to check i hope the engineer is not responsible for other peoples lives, or there might be an accident,

when jehovas witnesses come to your door tell them your buddhist, and that they will be caught in the realms of samsara if they do not escape the karmic universe, rant about the 4 nobel truths,

Da, that's the problem - illogicality

yeah i know, but personaly i dont see an idea of an infinite god existing as totaly illogical. i wouldent dedicate my entire life to worshipping to him ofcourse. but its not that illogical, but the holy texts are,

peace.

 

[Satyr]

in my personal opinion it seems that many atheists are bitter towards theists and the concept of god.


many people who convert from theism to atheism seem hostile and aggressive, but people who were never theists but dont believe in god seem calm and relaxed when talking about religious things.


this brings me to an opinionated conclusion that people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside.


because i have been watching many people on this board for quite some time now, and i have noticed a pattern in behaviour. and people who used to believe in god, and now have turned atheist tend to make fun of religion and try to have an agenda of trying to disprove god to everyone, and show how "silly it is"



me personaly i have never been a theist in my life, my family are not theist or atheist, i am now a daoist by choice and have been for many years. and as a neutral observer its quite easy for me to see how people behave due to the fact that i am not on either side of the argument/debate. therefore my judgement is not clouded with emotions.



people seem to take offence very easily when it comes to this topic, i wonder if it is a deep seeded reaction from childhood experience. or maybe something along the lines of a teenage rebelion remaining in the adult mind.


again this is just an observation and opinion.

peace.

This is soooooooo cute.

 

[Satyr]

in my personal opinion it seems that many atheists are bitter towards theists and the concept of god.


many people who convert from theism to atheism seem hostile and aggressive, but people who were never theists but dont believe in god seem calm and relaxed when talking about religious things.


this brings me to an opinionated conclusion that people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside.


because i have been watching many people on this board for quite some time now, and i have noticed a pattern in behaviour. and people who used to believe in god, and now have turned atheist tend to make fun of religion and try to have an agenda of trying to disprove god to everyone, and show how "silly it is"



me personaly i have never been a theist in my life, my family are not theist or atheist, i am now a daoist by choice and have been for many years. and as a neutral observer its quite easy for me to see how people behave due to the fact that i am not on either side of the argument/debate. therefore my judgement is not clouded with emotions.



people seem to take offence very easily when it comes to this topic, i wonder if it is a deep seeded reaction from childhood experience. or maybe something along the lines of a teenage rebelion remaining in the adult mind.


again this is just an observation and opinion.

peace.

This is soooooooo cute.
It's like watching a child trying to paint by the numbers.

 

[Enmos]

Originally Posted by EmptyForceOfChi
in my personal opinion it seems that many atheists are bitter towards theists and the concept of god.

many people who convert from theism to atheism seem hostile and aggressive, but people who were never theists but dont believe in god seem calm and relaxed when talking about religious things.

this brings me to an opinionated conclusion that people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside.

because i have been watching many people on this board for quite some time now, and i have noticed a pattern in behaviour. and people who used to believe in god, and now have turned atheist tend to make fun of religion and try to have an agenda of trying to disprove god to everyone, and show how "silly it is"

me personaly i have never been a theist in my life, my family are not theist or atheist, i am now a daoist by choice and have been for many years. and as a neutral observer its quite easy for me to see how people behave due to the fact that i am not on either side of the argument/debate. therefore my judgement is not clouded with emotions.

people seem to take offence very easily when it comes to this topic, i wonder if it is a deep seeded reaction from childhood experience. or maybe something along the lines of a teenage rebelion remaining in the adult mind.

again this is just an observation and opinion.

peace.

Well said !

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

This is soooooooo cute.
It's like watching a child trying to paint by the numbers.

was there a need to quote the same text twice with such lack of input?


peace.

 

[ashura]

in my personal opinion it seems that many atheists are bitter towards theists and the concept of god.

many people who convert from theism to atheism seem hostile and aggressive, but people who were never theists but dont believe in god seem calm and relaxed when talking about religious things.

this brings me to an opinionated conclusion that people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside.

because i have been watching many people on this board for quite some time now, and i have noticed a pattern in behaviour. and people who used to believe in god, and now have turned atheist tend to make fun of religion and try to have an agenda of trying to disprove god to everyone, and show how "silly it is"

me personaly i have never been a theist in my life, my family are not theist or atheist, i am now a daoist by choice and have been for many years. and as a neutral observer its quite easy for me to see how people behave due to the fact that i am not on either side of the argument/debate. therefore my judgement is not clouded with emotions.

people seem to take offence very easily when it comes to this topic, i wonder if it is a deep seeded reaction from childhood experience. or maybe something along the lines of a teenage rebelion remaining in the adult mind.

again this is just an observation and opinion.

peace.

I think it's important to remember that you're pulling this from observing a very small crowd of atheists from an already very small crowd. Say you have a theist who's become an atheist, and they're (subconsciously?) looking for a fight. It wouldn't be surprising if they turned up here and started ranting against theists. I don't think you have enough data to claim "people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside." Perhaps "atheists on sciforums who were once theists are very bitter" should be your point?

I've know plenty who are quite pleasant to be around.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I think it's important to remember that you're pulling this from observing a very small crowd of atheists from an already very small crowd. Say you have a theist who's become an atheist, and they're (subconsciously?) looking for a fight. It wouldn't be surprising if they turned up here and started ranting against theists. I don't think you have enough data to claim "people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside." Perhaps "atheists on sciforums who were once theists are very bitter" should be your point?

I've know plenty who are quite pleasant to be around.

i have never generalized once in this thread, i said "many atheists". many can mean 10,20,30,500,1000,500000,1000000000.

i stated it was a personal opinion and observation of mine, i know lots of atheists who are very nice people and very pleasent. but i also know many who are bitter towards religious people.

lets conduct a small sciforums test then, and see if my idea holds truth to it. we shall look through the posts of people who were ex theists turned atheists. and look at thier behaviour and how they post towards religious people in the religion forum,



peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

firstly to conduct the test i will need to open a new thread with a poll to get some test subjects who were theists turned atheists. so we can go through there posts and see if they have a certain agenda, or signs of bitterness towards theists.


peace.

 

[ashura]

i have never generalized once in this thread, i said "many atheists". many can mean 10,20,30,500,1000,500000,1000000000.

Actually, your exact quote was "this brings me to an opinionated conclusion that people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside." <-- no mention of many in there, but that's just me nitpicking. You and I both know what you mean (now).

lets conduct a small sciforums test then, and see if my idea holds truth to it. we shall look through the posts of people who were ex theists turned atheists. and look at thier behaviour and how they post towards religious people in the religion forum

Go for it.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Actually, your exact quote was "this brings me to an opinionated conclusion that people who used to be theists and turned thier back on religion hold a grudge and are psycologicaly hurt inside." <-- no mention of many in there, but that's just me nitpicking. You and I both know what you mean (now)..

i thought i said many, sorry about that. im really sure i typed many maybe im going crazy.

Go for it

i started the poll might take some time to conclude any results though,


edit: i just checked my OP i did say many a few times previously to that statement you quoted. i just forgot to say it again

peace.

 

[Satyr]

was there a need to quote the same text twice with such lack of input?


peace.

Yes, i wanted everyone to reread it.
It was so precious.

Like listening to a black guy talk about how, when someone dislikes him, it's because he is black.

I wonder what other delusion someone can feel special believing in just by saying that whomever does not agree must be ill or suffering from some dysfunction.

You don't believe in U.F.O. abductions?
Well, that's because you fear the unknown or your daddy used to beat you with a Star Wars plastic light-saber.

You don't believe in Big Foot?
You're prejudiced against hairiness or you harbor a secret bitterness against nature.

It's all so innocently stupid.:bravo: :bravo: :thankyou:

 

[ashura]

Yes, i wanted everyone to reread it.
It was so precious.

Like listening to a black guy talk about how, when someone dislikes him, it's because he is black.

I wonder what other delusion someone can feel special believing in just by saying that whomever does not agree must be ill or suffering from some dysfunction.

You don't believe in U.F.O. abductions?
Well, that's because you fear the unknown or your daddy used to beat you with a Star Wars plastic light-saber.

You don't believe in Big Foot?
You're prejudiced against hairiness or you harbor a secret bitterness against nature.

It's all so innocently stupid.:bravo: :bravo: :thankyou:

Seems like you've rejected one too many religions there pal, you should get some help!

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, i wanted everyone to reread it.
It was so precious.

Like listening to a black guy talk about how, when someone dislikes him, it's because he is black.

I wonder what other delusion someone can feel special believing in just by saying that whomever does not agree must be ill or suffering from some dysfunction.

You don't believe in U.F.O. abductions?
Well, that's because you fear the unknown or your daddy used to beat you with a Star Wars plastic light-saber.

You don't believe in Big Foot?
You're prejudiced against hairiness or you harbor a secret bitterness against nature.

It's all so innocently stupid.:bravo: :bravo: :thankyou:

Obvious ex-theist^^^

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Yes, i wanted everyone to reread it.
It was so precious.

Like listening to a black guy talk about how, when someone dislikes him, it's because he is black.

I wonder what other delusion someone can feel special believing in just by saying that whomever does not agree must be ill or suffering from some dysfunction.

You don't believe in U.F.O. abductions?
Well, that's because you fear the unknown or your daddy used to beat you with a Star Wars plastic light-saber.

You don't believe in Big Foot?
You're prejudiced against hairiness or you harbor a secret bitterness against nature.

It's all so innocently stupid.:bravo: :bravo: :thankyou:

when did i say anything along those lines?

peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

satyr you are trying to turn a perfectly reasonable argument and turn it into a pile of nonesense, another observation of mine would be that you have not even addressed my OP in any way shape or form.

your tactic is to make it appear as childish as possible. subconsciously or consciously im not sure.

peace.

 

[Celpha Fiael]

and to answer your question, i would respond with my own opinion and not get hostile, if i know of facts that prove them wrong i will state those facts and debunk them. but if i cannot prove them wrong then why should i make fun of them as a substitute for proving them wrong with facts? in my opinion that is a cheap way to try and win a debate or argument.

Oli is right to point out that you've missed the point I was trying to convey. In my rhetorical scenario I presented, you DO have facts, it's NOT just your own opinion. Yet these who have merely opinions STILL refuse to listen to you, even though it's obvious their opinions are debunked by your facts. Indeed, the more fact you present them, the more they claim it is irrelevent and inconsequential.

So now that I've made that clairification, how would you respond to them then?