Best UFO Evidence

Originally posted by orreman
http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever.html

I would like to introduce my humble website to this esteemed group and propose ,as modestly as possible, that I have taken a UFO photo that numerous front page articles believe represents the best evidence ever produced for the existence of aliens and UFOs. This daylight photo of ten triangular objects has also provided the rosetta stone to link UFOs to ancient artifacts, crop circles and the Nazca Lines in Peru. I would not have wasted my time to register here just to flap nonsense. If you go there be prepared for the most"UNSETTLING"-LA Times UFO story you will ever see. Orreman


cool site! I'm new to all this UFO stuff.. I have believe for a long time.. anyway.. a buddy of mine told me to DL that NPCC video.. after that I wanted to learn more about UFOs.. I wanted to know how I could get ahold of your video??

Thanks
Mr. Horror

PS. to other people on these boards... stop flaming this guy give him a chance.. geezz..
 
As requested here is a list of my articles;

Sept 12 1991 ,San Diego Edition of the LATimes(defunct) writer Tony Perry, headline;"HEY YOU THINK ITS EASY BEING CHOSEN TO SPREAD THE UFO GOSPEL?" (Tony writes about the photo and how I may have linked it to Nazca and mentions the dozens of media corp. who had turned me down. He mentions how Don Ecker of UFO magazine who I gave a personal presentation to claimed the objects in my photo are similar to "a wave of recent sightings"in Europe. The last paragraph reads"Orrell vows to press on."I believe they manifested themselves to me for a reason.It's something Im obligated to pass down.I have the burden of knowledge". I approached the L.A.Times only after my areas largest regional paper" The San Diego Union Tribune" refused dozens of my inquiries to just examine the photo. One phone call to the Times produced a phone call from Perry who challenged me to prove in person my theorys(hypothesis). The article speaks volumes of what Perry saw some of which is on my website. It is the loss of all San Diegans and tourists the the Tribune to this day refuses to cover any part of this story. Long Live the Los Angeles Times.

April 23 1992, The Beach and Bay Press, writer Mary Willmont, headline,"PACIFIC BEACH RESIDENT PHOTOGRAPHS UFOS IN SAN DIEGO"(front page) Marys writes about how I am "discovering the amount of disbelief which exists concerning aliens and UFOs". She mentions Tony Perry and his 3 pieces on me by now in his column. She mentions my radio interview on KSON (Brian Mane) "and radio stations across the nation". She also writes about my meeting with Marina Popovich former Russian test pilot and how we exchanged UFO photographs I showed Mary the videotape of Marina holding up an enlargement of the"Inaja UFO photo" on Channel 10 KGTV while being interviewed by former reporter Jim Wilkerson now in Atlanta. She continues to write,"Because of people like Popovich,Orrell vows to continue his mission to validate what he feels is"the greatest UFO photograph ever taken"."Not only is it an in-focus daylight photo of an obvious UFO formation, but there are 10 of them(UFOS) all clearly reflecting on their metallic surfaces the surrounding terrain". Willmont mentions how a giant face on a local mountain is connected with my UFO photo(one of the objects was hovering over the mountain). She finishes with"Orrell believes that once his theories are accepted, the faces will attract people from all over the world. When the world finds out about our (San Diego's) faces,they will come to see them. In the meantime, he plans to continue spreading the word about UFOs".

Six more articles to go. Next is "MAKING A MARTIAN OUT OF A MOUNTAIN"-The Daily Califorian
 
Birds is as plausible an explanation as anything else.

If Orreman has a photo analysis in his list of references which clearly shows his claim of a blue glow, then he will have more proof on his side than the "plausible" bird hypothesis. Plausibility is based on evidence - and if what he says has been verified independently (as he claims and is looking up his references for me) THEN his photograph is not a bird.

Burdon of proof is everything.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
Okay, that's two credible points in your favor. Keep going :)

The Raellians made CNN and all the major networks as well as several national/international magazines. That didn't give their claims to having created a human clone any additional credibility, nor their claims to be "in touch with" aliens.

Correlation to the media only demonstrates human interest unless there is a revalation of significant evidence (not blurry photos and anecdote).

Where's your articles from Nature, Science, or even Scientific American?
 
SkinWalker, Mystech is one of the Type Of Skeptics I had you confused with. He runs amuck here with little knowledge of what he speaks about. I've had it with him and his "Mouth" I'm not sure he's even out of High School yet.


orreman, I liked the site of yours..I went there right after you posted the link..

There is ample evidence of UFOs everywhere. From Biblical art to the caveman paintings. Modern film techniques have done wonders of capturing them on tape and film. If the Government would declassify their stockpile, we could see ample evidence of their hiding the truth... I wonder why they don't..ha.

I found this one that was de-classified.. its a video.. Click on Military and go there and download it..its worth it.

http://www.outoftheblue.tv/#

check out this site.. the link is on another thread here too..Moe has it.

http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/wizardfl/MainVideoPage.html
 
Unfortunately Xevious no independent analysis by a photographic expert has been made of the photograph that points out the blue glow. Thats not for lack of effort on my part, Don Ecker, Jim Delitoso and many other top guns in the UFO field were approached in person to investigate and simply walked away. That includes all the magazines Skinwalker mentioned as well as the largest civilian UFO organization whose international director asked me to "walk away from this". The fact that the Raellians made international news is due more to the money that its members must fork over than to any great revelations. Every writer ,photographer,or editor who ran my story was not compelled by my statis ,I have none, but by the evidence including the abundant blue pixels on the underside of most of the 10 craft in my photo. Perry saw them and he wrote about it "some appear to have shiny undersides,metallic maybe".

May 3rd and 4th 1992 The Daily Californian "MAKING A MARTIAN OUT OF A MOUNTAIN? (front page) writer Billie Sutherland She writes about the relationship between my UFO photo and the remarkable discovery I made years earlier of a giant "hooded three-dimensional head jutting out from the mountain". She also quotes me boldly stating "I've solved the greatest mysteries of the world, I've interpreted hundreds of rock paintings,petraglyphs as well as ground markings worldwide". Now I must admit even reading my own quote here rankles my intellect but then my mind replays the endless evidence that Perry labeled "UNSETTLING" and I have to agree with the quote. It matters very little to me that I have already been associated with being the first human to stumble upon this obvious repeating pattern, what does matter is the subject that Sutherland mentions next. "he said solemnly,"According to my metaphysical readings, planet Earth is heading for a natural disaster of epic proportions. It will be the 172 time the Earths magnetic poles have shifted. The Earth is going to flip in a matter of seconds and the wind generated is going to level everything on the planet." She ends with this, "Asked why these sophisticated creatures dont try a more direct means of communicating with people, like telephoning for example, he said its because we're not yet ready. They are, in other words, preparing us".

So many people called in about the article than on May 17 1992 they ran a follow up with the headline "THAR'S FACES IN THEM THERE HILLS" next
 
Originally posted by orreman
They said Galileo was delusional when he confirmed the hypothesis of Copernicus that the Sun was the center of our universe and not the Earth.

Dr. Massimo Pigliucci, University of Tennessee, said it best: "This is the "Galileo" effect. Proponents of new theories are fond of recalling the many examples of scientists who had be derided, ignored, or worse, persecuted because of their radical theories, which then proved to be correct. What this line of reasoning ignores, of course, is the fact that for every Galileo who eventually succeeded there were thousands of crackpots who did not. For every example of a daring, new scientific theory, which ends up being accepted, there are many, many examples of wrong theories, forever rejected and confined to the limbo of pseudoscientific history. Novelty per se is no evidence.'

Originally posted by orreman
Unfortunately we dont have 200 years to straighten out my theorys or hypotheses if you have been following our Earths increasing restlessness.

It isn't the Earth that is increasingly restless, but the 6 billion + inhabitants. Actually, there is evidence that shows the number of world conflicts and oppression has dropped in recent history.

Originally posted by orreman
I believe the Mayans predicted late December 2012 as the end of this world and the begining of another that is if we make it that far. The Hopi believe a day of Purification is nearly at hand. Now its a well known fact that Nostradomus and Edgar Cayce both said there will be a shifting of the poles

The Mayans, you have to remember were a culture that looked at life in a very cyclical way. Their calendar was not linear as is Western calendars. To judge their culture through the lens of your own is to be ethnocentric. Western notions of linear ‘beginnings’ and ‘ends’ cannot be used to understand a cultural artifact based upon a cyclical idea of time._ Recent vocal proponents of the Maya’s ‘predictions’ for the end of the world neglect this fundamental rule of anthropology and archaeology, turning an ancient idea of symbolic rebirth into a literal and real cataclysmic event. I recommend reading: Coe, Michael D., 1980. _ The Maya. Thames and Hudson, New York. He goes in-depth on the religion and culture of the Maya and speaks about many of the artifacts, including calendars.

As to Nostradamus and Cayce, they've been thoroughly debunked... there was even a Nostradamus prediction created by a college student a few years ago to demonstrate that Nostradamus' quatrains are so vague and cryptic, that they could refer to anything. Not long after this quatrain was invented, the WTC disaster occured. Cayce made many predictions that never came true, including the demise of the world in 1999, that 1933 would be a good year (that was when the Great Depression occured), and some about the Lindberg kidnapping... none of which panned out.

So, the Mayans, Nostradamus, and Cayce are not credible sources of information, but rather curiosities of history and culture.


Originally posted by orreman
and if youve seen my website I give you the book and authors that point out we are over 230,000 years overdue for the next reversal. I also give plausible reasons why were overdue. There is a reason the prehistoric mammoth found in the glacier had a stomach full of daisys. ..the earths crust shifted.

You are not accurately describing a true pole reversal. A pole reversal is where magnetic North switches places with magnetic South in the Earth's "poles." There is evidence to suggest that this is, by no means, a sudden event (the last occured around 700,000 to 750,000 years ago) and lasts many years. What happens is, probably, the Earth's core is a spinning dynamo of Iron (solid or semi-solid) with a liquid outer core... the spin slows, stops, then reverses, picking up speed, then slows, stops, etc. Continually repeating. There doesn't seem to be any periodicity, as the geologic record of these events do not show it.

This is an invaluable tool for geologists and anthropologists who are attempting to date a geologic strata, as they can compare the orientation of certain magnetically influenced minerals to see where they are aligned. The evidence is also recorded in the Atlantic ridge where the tectonic plates are separating and the magnetic alignments are identical on either side of the ridge.



Originally posted by orreman
he said the shift will generate winds of over 500 miles an hour. I read this in the seventys and was scared to find evidence to confirm the possibility.

An unlikely occurrance. There is no reason for the wind to be affected and there is no evidence that it was affected in earlier shifts. The fossil records would show a massive change, perhaps extinction, occurring during a period correlating with the pole shift. None has been noted in any of the many shifts. During the K-T extinction (when the astroid is theorized to have struck the Earth in the area of Belize), there was no pole shift. One occurred 333,000 years prior to the K-T event and another 270,000 years after.

A more likely danger would be the temporary loss of the Earth's magnetic field, causing the rate of skin cancers to increase as some of the Sun's radiation isn't deflected. People who relie on compass navigation will also find problem, but, thankfully, GPS navigation is beginning to dominate. Still, we might have anywhere from 50 to several hundred thousand years to wait.

Originally posted by orreman
Back to the present where I have stumbled and bumbled my way to the forefront of the UFO arena not to achieve statis or fame and wealth. My published goal is to change the conciousness of mankind

Spurious and fantastic claims without regard to reason and valid evidence damage the collective conscious of human kind, not elevate it. This is demonstrated throughout history and can be seen in the witch hunts and inquisition of the dark ages. It can be seen in the slavery of a race of people and the subsequent suppression of knowledge from them. It can be seen in the eradication of 500 nations of people to create 1 dominate country that throws it's weight around the world, sometimes with reason, sometimes without.

Originally posted by orreman
(with this supposed undeniable evidence)

Supposed by whom? Other than the claimants, I mean.

Originally posted by orreman
"Emissaries" (who guided Moses) and save mankind from certain doom. Chuckle if you want

No chuckle from me... I just want to know what of your evidence indicates that the mythical person Moses was guided by these "emissaries" or that mankind is facing "certain doom." Doom is a possibility, and has been for all of recorded history. It always will be. The probability of "doom" rises and falls. Some believe it is high, some believe it is low at the current time. But, most importantly, I want to see what evidence you have that the alleged visitors to our fair planet are "emissaries." You've met some? Have they spoken to you?

Originally posted by orreman
The best proof I can offer is in my very amatuer video made in 1992 that led to 8 feature articles (3 front page) 25 national and international interviews and 3 spots on local TV. Google has listed my discoveries (and movie) 6 times in the first 4 pages out of many dozens.

I applaud you for the attention you've received, but one has to consider that either the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot alone received MUCH more attention in the world press and from more credible media organizations... they both proved to be hoaxes on society. Both of which I applaud their creators, for they've pointed out the gulibility of our species. Both of these hoaxes and others still have devoted followers who refuse to accept that they were hoaxed!

Originally posted by orreman
Who among you has relevant theorys with the press, articles and evidence to back it up and I could give a shit what you do for a living. You want to catch up to me read the first 3 books of the following authors in the following order
T.Lobsang Rampa
Carlos Castanada
Jane roberts

Castaneda is generally regarded as a fraud by most in the Anthropological world. He was granted a Ph.D. by the UCLA Anthropology Department in 1973 for his third book, Journey to Ixtlan. However, most Anthropologists agree the work is not ethnographically accurate and is a work of fiction. He has little, to no credibility and claimed to have become a "disciple of Don Juan!"

T. Lobsang Rampa never existed. The books were written by Cyril Henry Hoskin, the son of a British plumber. He had never visited the Orient.

Jane Roberts and Robert Butts, the authors of Seth Speaks, never seemed to provide any conclusive evidence of their spurious claims. They did, however, seem to start the "channeling" craze and it lives on with charletons like John Edwards today.

SO... as you can see, many of us are quite "caught up." If you want to get up to speed with us, try reading something by Carl Sagen, Richard Feynman, Richard Dawkins, or any college level textbook on archeology and anthropology. Perhaps one on Geology as well.
 
Unfortunately Xevious no independent analysis by a photographic expert has been made of the photograph that points out the blue glow. Thats not for lack of effort on my part, Don Ecker, Jim Delitoso and many other top guns in the UFO field were approached in person to investigate and simply walked away.

By experience, I can accept your explanation. MUFON's headquarters used to be no more than 30 miles away from where I live and when the old vets are asked certain questions they freeze up and tend not to response. Without the independent confirmation however, I cannot back your claim as I would like to.

I this entire time have made no attempts to consider any of your other claims, the authenticity of your photographs were my primary concern. I'm sorry to say I can't accept it as valid since it has not been analyzed or independently corroborated.
 
Well, Xevious that is simply not good enough, you must strive to peeel the layers away, and continually remand your self to the conclusion that man/woman kind were born as babes in Dark woods and unfortunately were posed with many questions and few answers. Some people were mean't to Be scholars, others are naturally prone to to figure endless equations, yet others see things yet to be. Like art waiting to shine, one sees a tree, another sees the ants that make it a home. myself, well I think I was meant to fly, but to date all attempts have failed, now I walk Crooked and I'm afraid of Heights. maybe I was born After my time.. it figures to me yet you may argue that my time is yet to be, and I'm thinking.. Dammit girl, Gravity Sucks in an extremely truthful way, you hold the umbrella next time. OtaeE?
 
Slim, UFO's are a real phenomenon. I accept that. The possibility that some of them are extraterrestrial spacecraft is an open question with plenty of room for speculation, belief, and doubt. Any form of truth though must start with a question, and the question I asked didn't have a positive answer. Does that mean that Orreman's claim that the UFO photographs are real is false? NO!! It only means that no one involved in photograph analysis has said that in his expert opinion the photo is real.

I have in many posts fenced with supposed skeptics and scoffers on this very subject, but one thing that I have found they and I agree upon is that the scientific method is a useful tool in paranormal investigation. Often the philosophical disagreements I have with them come in the conclusions to be drawn from what is available when it is applied, not the method itself.

I'm just sticking by the rules of true skepticism. This doesn't mean I am calling Orreman a crackpot or a liar - there is NO PROOF that he is either of those things and personal attacks are both immature and inappropriate in a civilized inquiry. However, there is NO PROOF his photographs are authentic either. From a scientific stand point he's on shaky ground.
 
Skinwalker, Dr.Piguicci's Galileo effect certainly applies to crackpots that take lives and not promote them like the tragic events in Guyuana, Waco and the suicide of the UFO cult members north of here. It certainly dosent apply to an individual promoting humanity to itself and offworlders with a revolutionary discovery backed by evidence even the most skertical journalist had to admit seemed true.

You assume much when you state that nostradomus ,Cayce "have been throughly debunked". Even in his own time Nostradomus accurately depicted the way of death for his king. Cayce also tapped into what both Jane Roberts and Lobsang Rampa wrote about as the "Akasic Records" a cosmic library of all the past the present and the PROBABLE future which CAN change based on the current events of the time. This library is most likely the source as well for the "Life Review" experienced by NDEs.

You got the story wrong about Rampa being a british plumber. Rampa "Walked" into the his body after his own could no longer support life. The plumber had qualified for this unique privledge by successful meditation. It says in Revelations that one day death shall be no more and this is what the plumber showed us. One day ,after contact, with the "In-Betweens" those human/alien entities that have been purposely created with Gods authority during"alien abductions , we will ,like the plumber, be able to escape the endless rounds of births and deaths and move on to the next spiritual plane. The problem is bodies. If a LARGE amount of the population is destroyed in the shift, which may or maynot be an inner core event, many spirits or souls with unfinished carma will be trapped waiting a LONG time to reincarnate. This apparantly is not what our creator wants.

POLE REVERSALs "There dosent seem to be any perodicity as the geologic record of these events do not show it"-skinwalker

"There have been 171 reversals of the polarity in the past 76 m.y. with an "average" normal interval of 420,000 years and an "average" reversed interval of 480,000 years. The present normal era has lasted 700,000 years suggesting to some"paleomagicians" that we are already overdue for a reversal"-"The Earth Past and Present by Ojakangas and Darby. This sounds like perodicity to me skinwalker . Our earth would generate powerful winds IF it were a crustal displacement how could you not think it would not?

Although my claims are fantastic they are not spurious as I have gone to great lengths for a non-professional to present in any and every medium including this forum my best evidence to futher pursue my ultimate goal of uniting mankind in a common goal to help save our species. Now that dosent sound like someone trying to damage the colective conciousness of mankind.

I learned as well in my teens about the mysterious objects("Piller of light at night") that led Moses for forty years and the History channel and others point it out in thier "Ancient Astronauts" episode. to answer your question the answer is no to wether I am a conciousnee contactee. My dreams represent a separate reality where the answer would be yes.

Skinwalker as much as I enjoy your colorful banter and intellect, you really gave yourself away by discrediting John Edwards. He along with Praage and Fitzpatrick are not only verifiable authentic' but they represent the next evolutionary phase for mankind and your lack of belief or even objectivity means you'll never believe a humble servant of mankind like myselfself could possible accomplish what I have. This lack of "Right Thinking" may be taken into consideration on that day of purifacation.
 
Originally posted by orreman
Skinwalker, Dr.Piguicci's Galileo effect certainly applies to crackpots that take lives and not promote them like the tragic events in Guyuana, Waco and the suicide of the UFO cult members north of here. It certainly dosent apply to an individual promoting humanity to itself and offworlders with a revolutionary discovery backed by evidence even the most skertical journalist had to admit seemed true.

On the contrary, I think it applies very well to those who engage in pseudoscientific pursuits and ignore the basic tenents of scientific method and the testing and scrutiny of hypothesis. Galileo's hypotheses (he had more than one) were tested and re-tested. He realized that he could predict results with the application of his hypothesis of Earth orbiting the sun along with the other planets. This predictability gave him a theory.

One cannot jump to "theory" without first testing the hypothesis or set of hypotheses.

Originally posted by orreman
You assume much when you state that nostradomus ,Cayce "have been throughly debunked".

Why. I've read both their works (not the entire bodies) and I've read alternative and reasoned critiques. The works of Nostradamus and Cayce (particularly Cayce) do not stand up to scrutiny.

Originally posted by orreman
Even in his own time Nostradomus accurately depicted the way of death for his king.

Through coincidence and ambiguity buried in the vagueness of his many quatrains.

Originally posted by orreman
Cayce also tapped into what both Jane Roberts and Lobsang Rampa wrote about as the "Akasic Records" a cosmic library of all the past the present and the PROBABLE future which CAN change based on the current events of the time.

They were/are frauds. Pure and simple. There is absolutely no conclusive evidence of their validities and ample evidence of their errors.

Originally posted by orreman
You got the story wrong about Rampa being a british plumber. Rampa "Walked" into the his body after his own could no longer support life.

And this ability is corroborated by what evidence. The say-so of a self-proclaimed mystic?

Originally posted by orreman
It says in Revelations that one day death shall be no more and this is what the plumber showed us. One day ,after contact, with the "In-Betweens" those human/alien entities that have been purposely created with Gods authority during"alien abductions , we will ,like the plumber, be able to escape the endless rounds of births and deaths and move on to the next spiritual plane.

It says all that in Revalations? Come on, man! Even if I didn't see that as a mythology of humanity, I wouldn't see that translation/interpretation.

POLE REVERSALs "There dosent seem to be any perodicity as the geologic record of these events do not show it"-skinwalker

Originally posted by orreman
"There have been 171 reversals of the polarity in the past 76 m.y. with an "average" normal interval of 420,000 years and an "average" reversed interval of 480,000 years. The present normal era has lasted 700,000 years suggesting to some"paleomagicians" that we are already overdue for a reversal"-"The Earth Past and Present by Ojakangas and Darby. This sounds like perodicity to me skinwalker.

Nope. You are confusing "averages" with "periodicity."

Periodicity refers to the regular and predictable interval of an occurance.

Average refers to the sum of intervals divided by the number of occurances. Some intervals may have been <50,000 years, some may have been greater than 800,000 years. It matters not, there is no catastrophic evidence recorded in the geologic record. In fact, there is ample evidence that life flourished quite well and unaware of these events.

Originally posted by orreman
Our earth would generate powerful winds IF it were a crustal displacement how could you not think it would not?

There has been NO EVIDENCE OF ANY SUDDEN CRUSTAL DISPLACEMENT! Not on a scale larger than a localized landslide, earthquake or other naturally occuring geologic catastrophy. And certainly not in association with a magnetic reversal. There is no reason for the Earth's crust to "shift." The only effect occuring is the gradual decrease then increase in the magnitude of the Earth's magnetic field. The whole process has been estimated to take 50 to 75 years. Maybe more... maybe less.

But this belief of yours is consistent with the other "new age" beliefs and mythology that exists on the shelves of bookstores and the electronic realm of the internet. Still, it's apparent that you don't believe everything you read, since you obviously give little credence to what I say ;)

Originally posted by orreman
Although my claims are fantastic they are not spurious as I have gone to great lengths for a non-professional to present in any and every medium including this forum my best evidence to futher pursue my ultimate goal of uniting mankind in a common goal to help save our species. Now that dosent sound like someone trying to damage the colective conciousness of mankind.

I won't deny that our species needs some saving. But I maintain that many of your claims and beliefs are spurious, though the intent to deceive is not likely to be your own. This is because you seem genuine to me in wanting to make a positive difference in world filled with hate, discourse, greed and needless suffering. That same world has the potential for more, and I think your time would be better spent at least considering some of the works I cited in an earlier post.

If you develop a defined and refined critical reasoning ability and couple that with your passion for discovery, you might offer UFO research a more valuable ally. I agree that there is enough reason to investigate this phenomenon, but it has to be done with reason and accountability and it has to stand up to scrutiny.

Originally posted by orreman
Skinwalker as much as I enjoy your colorful banter and intellect, you really gave yourself away by discrediting John Edwards. He along with Praage and Fitzpatrick are not only verifiable authentic' but they represent the next evolutionary phase for mankind

Uh-huh... I know you'll balk at the word "Skeptic" at the top of the page, but the author of this article, Michael Shermer, is a respected columnist for Scientific American and has quite a few feature articles under his belt there. I've followed his work for some time. At least read it, then consider that it is at least equally likely that this perspective is as valid as Edward's. I realize that being human, it is all too easy to discount that with which you already disagree without weighing the evidence, but nevertheless, the article has several credible sources.

Originally posted by orreman
This lack of "Right Thinking" may be taken into consideration on that day of purifacation.

Perhaps. But there are many perspectives on "right thinking."
 
Thanks Xevious, I was poking at everybody in A Joking way, lefthanded a little or more Maybe, I poked at you because of your obviuosly high intellect and approach to this subject, that and I've been "Watching you", Being Awed slightly at first, but as I simmer and the Phobia in me Grows to a fevered Pitch, I see a thorobreed Mare Prancing in the mist, Tame yet wild, Exciting and Scary, Blood Racing in the core of your being, and... I...uh.. figure I could just take a nap while you mop this little operation up.,, Dammit gal, Gas the "Scoot" up when yer finsihed with this Batch... you'd do to ride the river with, I reckon...I feel Safe. I do wish you'd quit probing me with that "Thing" your holding, Is it Legal?

Yes, I've had a Beer or three, But I Feel fine... now.

Me, Ive seen good days, and , being honest, some Sucked more worse.. worser.. But not the Worst. Those Puppies are rare, No Caller ID, handy to not have. yet I function still. maybe there is much to explore and learn, but its not from Jumping off the peak of the roof of Granmaws house with her Sunday's best Umberelller Either! a One way trip To Shortville..hmm.. Pain hath no Memory like a memory with one.. kinda.
I'm reluctant to Grasp at Straws.. They Suck too, but a suckee is needed, and I'm.. uh.... heck, I spose I exude hot air mostly..
My motto is to Go futher than any idiot has gone before..(Star Trek, sorta) and come back to Square one, or two, Yet I come Back most often. .. *It is Taboo to accept a preposterous notion that as surely as the Earth is a Globe among ....Uhh, what is bigger than Trillions? many, WE, US, the Earthlings have a Raincheck on being the Beings Exclusively.. THAT thought alone is worth a few observations. People Copy and paste trying at first to Share with others, to basicaly submitt an Idea to many or any that are drawn to it.. A tough skin is needed to sidestep or belay the Negative aspects of the original post that Glare to the skeptics. Those Prople play a crucial Role in the continuing discovery of the Truth and sometimes patience is needed, so you don't amp out and Net-Pinched their Frickin, Stupid assed, dumber than a "Big Box Of Kitty Litter" no-clue Physcopathetic Wasterall's of an Island mentality that they have adopted, prolly cause they are adopted... and "Be NiCe". THATS what I do....sometimes.
Anyway, I have pretty Much made up my mind, No Grasping and Sucking here... When I am Consious I remember... mostly.

Blame the aliens.. Free Vacation and a Watch My ASS! the fine Print was done in the Only Lingo I don't Know.. and it was Raining the whole Trip!
 
SkinWalker, I went and read the Article on Edwards, I dislike and mistrust Singular People like him who use Things unseen, Browesing touchy subjects like Spiritual encounters and Death of Loved ones for personal gain. Most ALL those are Scams to twist FEELINGS and personal loss into a windfall for profit.

The validity of UFO's should share no common ground with wishy-washy Programs such as Humans can configure. Thats like comparing Apples and Oranges. Even Abductions SHOULD be viewed with skepticizm.. Some of them I think are real. The Bible is littered with Thousands of occurances, The birth of Christ, The "Star" the wise men followed, Jesus decending in a Cloud, Ezekials Wheel, Daniels Dreams, the parting of the red sea..etc..

A person must first Believe and know they exist.. Just as surely as Earth hangs in a balanced State, the truth of it is Not Petty.



I think the most Glaring aspect of the Whole Phenomena is the Futility of Denying the truth of the Universe, No one person owns exclusive rights or the key to unlock it. It is as wide open as an individual's ability to see with more than simple eyesight. Its one of the best kept secrets of the universe, or at least to us Earthlings it is. I can't say we are the last civilization to come to grips with the wonders of all that is, but looking at the traffic of the Pulsating Glowing Blips on Radar, the abundance of Art and Notations in History, the Bible for example, close encounters and such Recent proof.. I'd say we as a race of supposed intellegence are not all that speacial after all. Not much more than the animals we cage, or the Forests that we rape. Insignificant ants always on the go and never looking up, If the Light is the truth and the way like they say, how come people can't see it for what it is?
 
Last edited:
It never ceases to amaze me that people can claim to see a shape in a diffuse blob on a film. You could superimpose a hundred different shapes on it and make it them "fit".

Hans
 
Skinwalker, I realized along time ago I will never be a scientist but that dosent mean my methods ignore the basic tenents of of the profession. My hypothesis after discovering the spike- like projection on the left contour of the single acorn shaped craft was that if this object really was a UFO and not a flapping duck then I should be able to find evidence of other UFOs shaped the same with the same protrusion. It didnt take long. While the photo was being professionally enlarged to grain Unsolved Mysteries aired the "Kecksberg UFO incident" where dozens of independant witness's saw the exact same craft that I captured in my photo. Kecksberg UFO Researcher Stan Gordon was so impressed by this discovery he had it logged into Google under my name. This webpage explores this"hypothesis" http://www.orreman7.com/BestUFOphotoever2.html

This page also examines the second UFO I discovered that also contained an unmistakable spike-like projection 2/3rds up its left side EXACTLY like my single craft. This photo was taken by astronaut James McDivitt and appeared on the discontiued TV program "Secrets and Mysteries" over a decade ago and it only exists now on this page and DEEP in NASA files. The Russians were next with a photo released on" Hard Copy" that not only was a projecting acorn shape but had a whip or tail descending from it.

At this point my hypothesis was that my accidental photo of ten "fuzzy"objects were in fact UFOs and I theorized that ancient civilizations would have seen them too and recorded it in their art and artifacts. Thats when I walked into John Coles bookstore in La Jolla picked up Marilyn Bridges book "Markings" and flipped to page 27 and almost dropped the book. See for yourself
the biggest projecting triangle ever inscribed in the Earth (Nazca) on my Nazca Revealed page. This boldly confirmed my theory and then on page 29 ANOTHER projecting triangle but this one had a whip ot tail on it just like the Russian UFO which is one reason Popovich held up my UFO photo on Channel 10.

Concerning Roberts and Rampa being legitimate, anybody whose read them along with Castanada will have found they talk about the same things which coming from 3 different authors forms a solid backdrop for Metaphysics (pseudoscience) . You say there is no conclusive evidence of their validity and yet without their theories I would never been able to formulate my own concerning what is and is not legitimate reality. My hypothesis on crop circles and how the atoms and molecues in the plants have conciousness and WILLINGLY form the patterns they do is on this page
http://www.orreman7.com/CropCirclesRevealed.html For some of us objectively open-minded individuals this might suggest a legitamacy to their writings.

SKEPTIC a person who habitually doubts, questons, or suspends judgement upon matters generally accepted.-Websters New World

Before I read the Shermer printout I would like to mention that I had the pleasure of meeting him at his lecture in LaJolla over 5 years ago and as agreed I brought an 11x14 of the "Inaja UFO Photo" mounted along with a dozen articles and my 2 video tapes. He was impressed enough upon inspection that he quaranteed that he would run the photo and his analisis pro or con. After 4 months I realized that I could never have been in his magazine because it would put him and magazine out of business. After repeated efforts to regain my materials I gave up. The weak effort he gave on TV attempting to denouce Edwards will probably be duplicated in this report Im about to read. Later I would record Shermer claiming there is no credible evidence on UFOs in several TV programs and would think to myself "tell them the truth Michael". He's alot like Carl Sagan who said "Remarkable claims require remarkable evidence" Even if there were UFOs flying over their head. Carl and his Planetary Society would not return numerous calls I made to just examine the photo. Oh but I loved his book "Contact" and the "Cosmos" series. These men have done nothing for UFOlogists or UFOlogy.
 
Last edited:
well, There have never been any sightings of the Abominable Snowman or Nessie in My part of the world, but if people Know you and that you Won't redicule Them, they can tell you Plenty about the Various UFO's They have seen. Many will not report or tell of it because of the Rude Vicious Nature of many Skeptics Its almost like you are Stealing something from them or somehow harming them.. I've never understood Why. There is a LOT of Fakery out there but many are put forth as a trap to fool people for the purpose of Proving ALL UFO Sightings are Fake. What s the Truth in that? If UFOs are Not real then No Harms done, but if they are plenty Harm has been done to weaken The Public into thinking wrongly. I think the Study of UFOs is a Valid Science that effects us Much more than the osone Hole, or Global Warming.
 
Originally posted by orreman
My hypothesis after discovering the spike- like projection on the left contour of the single acorn shaped craft was that if this object really was a UFO and not a flapping duck then I should be able to find evidence of other UFOs shaped the same with the same protrusion. It didnt take long.

1st, What was your experiment's control factor? Did you obtain some random photographs of equal quality but of known objects and look for this effect there as well. A word of warning: bias will tend to creep in on such controls, so a disinterested third-party is handy.

2nd, correlation doesn't imply causation. Simply finding a correlation between two or a hundred images doesn't imply the cause. It is bad science to say that because you found "spike-like" projections in grainy images that they must be other worldly craft (we agree that the objects remain "unidentified" and therefore fit the definition of UFO).

Originally posted by orreman
discontiued TV program "Secrets and Mysteries" over a decade ago and it only exists now on this page and DEEP in NASA files.

As I've pointed out, the media is often the most deceptive source in this phenomenon (I see UFO culture as a phenomenon more so than the sightings), especially where ratings and money are concerned.

Originally posted by orreman
See for yourself the biggest projecting triangle ever inscribed in the Earth (Nazca) on my Nazca Revealed page.

Nazca already has plausible and very probable theories that do not include anything but homo sapiens sapiens.

Originally posted by orreman
Concerning Roberts and Rampa being legitimate, anybody whose read them along with Castanada will have found they talk about the same things which coming from 3 different authors forms a solid backdrop for Metaphysics (pseudoscience) .

Is it not possible that they've been in collusion, even if not directly? Perhaps they merely piggy-backed the success of each other's work and have patterned their ideas after people like Cayce. A very common thread in the pseudoscientific and new age cultures....

Originally posted by orreman
You say there is no conclusive evidence of their validity and yet without their theories I would never been able to formulate my own concerning what is and is not legitimate reality.

So if you publish a book, would not someone see validity to your ideas because they compliment Roberts and Rampa? This is how new age mythology exists.

Originally posted by orreman
My hypothesis on crop circles and how the atoms and molecues in the plants have conciousness and WILLINGLY form the patterns they do

This is too ludicrous of a hypothesis to even comment on. But another example of bad-science on your part. You have a hypothesis built on the tower of untested hypotheses.

Originally posted by orreman
For some of us objectively open-minded individuals this might suggest a legitamacy to their writings.

And I say you are anything but objective or open-minded.

Originally posted by orreman
SKEPTIC a person who habitually doubts, questons, or suspends judgement upon matters generally accepted.-Websters New World

Skeptic - n. 1. A person who questions the validity, authenticity, o rtruth of something purporting to be factual, esp. religion or religions tenets.

Objective - adj. 4. not influenced by personal feelings or prejudice; unbiased (definitions 1 - 3 were the noun versions, i.e. "goals")

Open-minded - adj. 1. having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments. 2. unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.

-Random House Webster's College Dictionary

To be objective and open-minded, one must be willing to accept new ideas, but not at the expense of verification by way of evidence.

I once had the idea that the speed of light could not exceed 3 x 10^8 m / s. I've since revised my thinking after seeing the results of focusing a light pulse through a cesium chamber. I'm not convinced that the light is the same light that entered, but now I've even revised my thoughts on multiverse theory, since this experiment offered a little more validity in that direction as well.

If you do the science right, your experiments will have one of 3 results regarding a hypothesis: 1) it'll prove valid; 2) it'll prove to be wrong; or 3) it'll prove that you might be on to something, but your hypothesis needs more work.

Originally posted by orreman
These men [Shermer & Sagan] have done nothing for UFOlogists or UFOlogy.

On the contrary, they've done an enormous service to "ufology." How can it be possible in any discipline (biology, anthropology, chemistry, etc) to do science without scrutiny? Without someone questioning your methods? Without this check, scientists could (and did many times in the past) say whatever they pleased. Science would be riddled with spurious evidence, wild theories, and blind laws governing their applications.

Shermer and Sagan have done more to push ufology into the realm of science and out of the realm of pseudoscience than you would care to admit. They applied the same expectations on "ufologists" that might be applied to a biologist or an archeologist. The reason "ufologists" don't like it? I suspect it's too much work. It's easier to simply make wild hypotheses and then not do the proper work to prove them.

Pseudoscience offers only explanation by scenario, research by literary interpretation, refusal to revise, appeals to mythology, spurious similarities, casual approaches to evidence, irrefutable hypotheses, and anachronistic thinking. Very often pseudoscience tries to shift the burden of proof to the other side of the argument and theories are claimed legitimate or valid simply because they're "new," "alternative," or "daring" (the Galileo effect).
 
originally posted by Skinwalker
Shermer and Sagan have done more to push ufology into the realm of science and out of the realm of pseudoscience than you would care to admit. They applied the same expectations on "ufologists" that might be applied to a biologist or an archeologist. The reason "ufologists" don't like it? I suspect it's too much work. It's easier to simply make wild hypotheses and then not do the proper work to prove them.

I disagree with the argument that UFOlogists don't like science because it is "too much work". It far more has to do with two things. One is that UFOlogy is easily a field in which science fiction and science fact can meld in such a way that the unbelieveable becomes believeable. Since the phenomen as a whole defies any sort of explanation which is air-tight, the imagination has lots of room to play. You might say that that in itself discredits the phenomenon, but I would disagree again. Imagination is one of the most important elements of any intellectual persuit. Just how much imagination does it take when you sit and think about it, to piece togeather an extinct ecosystem in Paleontology? If one stops a moment, one will realize this pattern of thinking is the same as is required by computer programmers, and musicians. In each case, one takes what is known and in essence set in stone, or the rules of the subject (the Paleontologist uses the fossils he has, the programmer the programming language he is useing, the musician useing music theory), and in each and every example, one takes what is known and organizes it in a mannor which creates something which is both functional, useful, and in it's own ways, beautiful. The reason I chose these three examples is that they each also represent varying degrees of liberty one has in creativity.

The Paleontologist is required to satisfy not only the physical evidence he has, but the scrutiny of his peers. This is not only an issue of what evidence he has in his hands, but the additudes of his peers. A Paleontologist who said 20 years ago for example that a specimine of Compsognathus had feathers on it would have been highly controversial indeed, if not ridiculed. (Yes, shuch childish things happen in the ranks of Professional Scientists) The same paleontologist today, making the same claim, would recieve a far warmer review by his peers. Why such a dramatic shift in how one interprits some obscure markings inside of a limestone slab? The reason is that 20 years ago the Dinosaur / Bird hypothesis was not yet recieved by the entire scientific community and his claim would be incredibly controversial. In the 20 years since, we have found not only a second species of the Archaeopterex genus, but we have found small carniverous dinosaurs in China which have clearly defined feathers. Thus, the same obscure limestone slab and claim made in two differnt times would recieve very differnt reactions. In the end, how far into what the paleontoligist is seeing he can creatively reconstruct his fossils depends on his peers reactions.

Programming is somewhat the same, but the key difference is that computers have no such feelings when it comes to "available evidence" because a computer only knows the rules at the beginning, and these do not change. The programmer knows all the rules and dementions involved, and he has to answer to no one to explain them, accept the computer. All the computer cares about is if his code works correctly, and there are literally thousands upon thousands of possible combinations of code he can produce. In Algebra, there are many many formula which can be used to recieve the same results, and the programmer is free to use any of these. This is in contrast to the paleontology example, which will only allow in the end one accepted model to be correct. Does this mean computer programming is any less of a science? No, but only that it's practitioners have far less scrutiny to deal with in how they code their programs. All that matters in the end is the result, not the method used to obtain it.

Music is an even more free enterprise. The only criteria for judging music as good or bad comes from the reaction of those listening to it. Beyond the fact that it is based in sound, there are in the end no set definitions for what exactly music is aside from what has been traditionally observed to be the most pallatable aspects of it from the point of view of the listening audience. So let me ask you again, what is music? I was for 8 years an accomplished Bassoonist, Clarinetist, and later conducting student and I couldn't give you a definitive answer. That is the point. There IS no definitve answer to what music is. Yet, not ONE person on the face of this planet no matter from what culture or region would say music does not exist. So, what is music?

So how does this lecture on creativity relate to UFOlogy? It has to do with the criteria of critical thought and evidence to be applied to the phenomenon. Working under the assumption that some UFO's are extraterrestrial spacecraft from a species which is concealing it's intentions from us, one would expect it to be highly difficult to find definitive physical evidence of the phenomenon. Philosophically any scientist will find this objectionable as they SHOULD! Science works by establishing patterns in available evidence. However, I do have an example of a scientific enterprise which has the same issue, and thus a precidence. It is called flourensics. In flourensics as you know, the goal is to use scientific methodology to determine all that can be factually obtained from a crime scene. However, for this to work the perpetrator of the crime must leave something behind which can be physically measured and observed. A criminal who is mindful
of this is fully capable of destroying evidence which would hint at
his crime, or implicate a differnt individual for the crime, or both. Applying the same thinking to UFOlogy, where they hypothesis demands that the extraterrestrials are of a much more advanced culture and are perhaps intellectually superior to humans, it is really so difficult to think that if an intellectually superior species wanted it's presence to not be known that it would not be known?

Secondly it is as Slim stated: that many hoaxes have tainted the credibility of the whole phenomenon. There have been many hoaxes in science. The key difference is that the hoaxes in science are by and largely swepted under the rug, to be forgotten. After all, no one wants to admit when they have been taken for a fool or worse, no one wants to admit whtn the "stupid" guy turns out to be the one who was right. By contrast, when a UFO hoax comes to light no one forgets it. Somehow, UFOlogy is held to a higher standard than much of mainstream science in this reguard. The only reason being of course, that those objecting to the arguments of UFOlogists find attacking credibility to be far more fruitful than refuting the above mentioned argument of how a superior species could cover it's tracks, or for that matter dealing with UFO cases which defy conventional explanations of any kind.
 
Back
Top