best arguments against religion (no theists)

JeremyHope1 said:
Apologies, i was directed to this link because i am lost spiritually or religiously. However, i have arrived at a conclusion. I must preface by conceding that because "I" arrived at the conclusion, the thought is tangible only to our presence.

Here is my argument. If an atheist spends his life arguing against or for the proof of no GOD, or supreme being- which is unprovable in our plane or consciousness or lifetime. Then when he/she dies they have gained research but no answer. Still hopeless and discontent that his threoy was not solidified.
If a person seeks GOD, through doing the same research and praying. Then when he dies and along the way he/she has gained hope and lost nothing.
Seems to me that above the arguments for or against, that the only fruitful life is a hopeful life?
I'm sure that is oversimplified-but am I wrong and why?
Because, in two cases, i have witnessed atheists pray to god for help in flight and near a drowning. Conversely, i havent heard the same abandonment of faith during a crisis.
thank you.
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Join the club. We are all spiritually lost, the moment we figure everything out is the moment we become gods. But have faith if you have courage and challenge God to prove you wrong. It never ceases to amaze me that, even in my most doubtful times, God shows up and says, "Heeelllooo! I'm still here for you, see?" And my soul soars on the eagle's wings as I try to reason God away as coincidence. It is always a battle against yourself. Be strong and courageous and do not trust the words of any man, not even me. But seek God in the quiet and live fully and at peace and love your neighbor, and enjoy the roller coaster ride!
 
I could just as well say that aliens came down and influenced the DNA.

You could, but what evidence do you have to support such a claim? And then you must go on to explain how the aliens evolved?

It is not imperical.

No. it is empirical.

Then why do we have people saying that its theory of evolution is true?

I have no idea.

Evidence needs to be interpreted, and many times the interpretation is wrong.

Many times? Sorry, I don't buy that.

And some equally respected scientists say the opposite.

And what do those so-called 'respected' scientists have as an alternative theory to evolution? Creationism?

but I choose to not believe this evidence because of the potential implications and the lack of observation of the process.

Yet, you choose to beleive that which has never been observed, has no evidence whatsoever.

And, if I (a natural skeptic) believe in God, does that mean anything?

It can only mean one thing, that you are deluding yourself into thinking you're a skeptic.

Why is it that the larger number of people you have giving you an answer, chances are that the more accurate the answer is?

The answers I've recieved about religion are independent to the individual and usually are very different from one individual to the next. In fact, those beliefs are argued vehemently amongst the theists here. Who is right?

Could it be that most people on Earth believe in a god? Whether or not they all agree on the same god, they agree there is more to life than what meets the eye.

True, most people do beleive in gods. But, the fact they do not agree with each other should warrant serious consideration of those beliefs.

Then, is it safe to say that anyone who is not a theist is exhibiting abnormal behavior since they do not succumb to the normal human condition?

I would say that the normal human condition is to not believe in gods. Those who do are abnormal.
 
Proof of god

So here is one of the proof:
1) Absolute Truth has to exist because to say that it does not exist is to assume that this statement is absolutely true
(please note that the reverse does not work: The statement: truth exist do not need to be false :)
2) This absolute Truth is God
 
If youre religious and you believe the bible is real because of faith, we cant touch ya. Its an automatic tie.
No one can bust you, bible nuts pride themselves on believing in things that are hard to believe in. They think god will bless them for that. but if faith isnt enough...if you want history or fact in your bible... you are soo screwed.



In other words, there are no scientific arguments you can EVER make that would ever convince a religious idiot that he's wrong.
 
ronan said:
So here is one of the proof:
1) Absolute Truth has to exist because to say that it does not exist is to assume that this statement is absolutely true
(please note that the reverse does not work: The statement: truth exist do not need to be false :)
2) This absolute Truth is God
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Actually its my hamster. prove me wrong.
 
forgot to mention, if you say its not my hamster (dramatic pause) you're doing satan's work, you're going to hell, you've rejected the holy spirit, you're never going to be happy cos you're in a state of spiritual denial. you also don't have morals, except those which have actually come from my hamster, our lord and saviour (peace be upon him)
 
(Q) said:
I would say that the normal human condition is to not believe in gods. Those who do are abnormal.
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given that i would say a greater number of people embrace some kind of religion or supernatural/spiritual belief, i think that's an inaccurate statement. i've tended to divided people into two groups as well though, and it goes a little something like this:

people who see the flaws and doubt the whole.
people who see the the shiny, bright objects and ignore the flaws.

whether or not you believe in religion seems to be dependent on ur reaction to the dumb parts. namely, the old testament. thats not to say that i respect the new one.
 
given that i would say a greater number of people embrace some kind of religion or supernatural/spiritual belief, i think that's an inaccurate statement. i've tended to divided people into two groups as well though
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It depends where, (with regards to gods). A recent YouGov survey came up with the following:

Do you believe there is a god?

UK: Yes: 39% No: 36% Not sure: 25%
USA: Yes: 80% No: 9% Not sure: 11%

The difference is simply staggering. In time all remaining gods will become a relic of history like the majority have already done.
 
ronan said:
So here is one of the proof:
1) Absolute Truth has to exist because to say that it does not exist is to assume that this statement is absolutely true
(please note that the reverse does not work: The statement: truth exist do not need to be false :)
2) This absolute Truth is God
Click to expand...

But to say that "it might or might not exist" negates statement #1 - the statement only has relevance if you are absolutely certain in the first place. Only theists (and even then not all theists) are so certain - and even then its only OPINION - the rest of us a healthily sceptical.

It does not follow that absolute truth is god - absolute truth could be the colour yellow, or the farty sound of me cupping my hand under my armpits and waggling my arms for all we know - prove otherwise.
 
SnakeLord said:
It depends where, (with regards to gods). A recent YouGov survey came up with the following:

Do you believe there is a god?

UK: Yes: 39% No: 36% Not sure: 25%
USA: Yes: 80% No: 9% Not sure: 11%

The difference is simply staggering. In time all remaining gods will become a relic of history like the majority have already done.
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i dunno man, are the numbers really dwindling? over 2000 years has much really changed? its still just a lot of people are religious.
 
synthesizer-patel said:
But to say that "it might or might not exist" negates statement #1 - the statement only has relevance if you are absolutely certain in the first place. Only theists (and even then not all theists) are so certain - and even then its only OPINION - the rest of us a healthily sceptical.
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What are you talking?
if you say that it may exist: then your statement is maybe false and you cannot say it is true. FINE it gives us no information about truth. it does not deny it existence neither its non existence

But now if you say that everything is false then you have to conclude that this statement "everything is false" as well is false and thus there has to be a truth

Your statement now has no more value because we know now that it exist.

Think at least more than one time

synthesizer-patel said:
It does not follow that absolute truth is god - absolute truth could be the colour yellow, or the farty sound of me cupping my hand under my armpits and waggling my arms for all we know - prove otherwise.
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synthesizer-patel;, you seems to have difficulties to understand, you always try to interpret the information in a way that will give you right

I did not say that it follows even if I agree that it could have been interpreted this way:

I wanted to say that the existence of god is based on 2 statements: 1 and 2
 
ronan said:
synthesizer-patel;, you seems to have difficulties to understand, you always try to interpret the information in a way that will give you right
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indeed - because everything you say is so open to personal interpretation - that's what I, and a whole bunch of other people here have been attempting to point out to you.

You think absolute truth must by definition be God - I'm not so certain there is a definition for it

prove otherwise
 
"absolute truth must by definition be God"

That was Gandhis premise, Truth is God and God is Truth
 
Question: could God be above logic? If he was somehow 'outside the box' of not only our universe, but also the fundamentals then he would be free to create in any way whatsoever, and we could not form any argument to describe him or anything else outside of our realm?

I think the answer is that he cannot be outside of logic. So for example, he cannot exist and not exist at the same time. Once we allow ourselves the use of logic, I don't think it is too hard to prove, at least, that if there is a god then he is certainly not 'the God' of the Christians.
 
Blue_UK said:
Question: could God be above logic? If he was somehow 'outside the box' of not only our universe, but also the fundamentals then he would be free to create in any way whatsoever, and we could not form any argument to describe him or anything else outside of our realm?
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That's an interesting question
But is logic right? I agree that the human mind cannot imagine to think correctly outside logic but it does not make it right.

Blue_UK said:
I think the answer is that he cannot be outside of logic. So for example, he cannot exist and not exist at the same time. Once we allow ourselves the use of logic, I don't think it is too hard to prove, at least, that if there is a god then he is certainly not 'the God' of the Christians.
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Even among Christian there are many kind of personal god, many division among the head of the Christian (not only talking to the different branches: Protestant, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox,...) but I would agree with you for a god who is in some way (I cannot even conceive how it is possible) outside reality and who created humans out of clay.
 
I don't believe in a god! There is nothing to suggest a divine creator who has a personality and is conscious in some way.
 
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