beer woman spared a good old fasioned caning

[Enmos]

Thats verses from the Quran.

Ok. But a lot of Muslims over here swear that they are not allowed alcohol, or pork for that matter.

 

[mike47]

I think Michael should be canned in her place because the Muslim culture and laws irritate him more than wars, starvation, bullying....etc...!.

 

[S.A.M.]

Ok. But a lot of Muslims over here swear that they are not allowed alcohol, or pork for that matter.

By whom?

The isolation of ethanol (alcohol) as a pure compound was first achieved by Muslim chemists who developed the art of distillation during the Abbasid caliphate, the most notable of whom were Persian Jabir ibn Hayyan (Geber), Arab Al-Kindi (Alkindus) and Persian al-Razi (Rhazes). The writings attributed to Jabir ibn Hayyan (721-815) mention the flammable vapors of boiled wine. Al-Kindi (801-873) unambiguously described the distillation of wine.[6]

Pure distilled alcohol was first produced by Muslim chemists in the Islamic world during the 8th and 9th centuries. The development of the still with cooled collector—necessary for the efficient distillation of spirits without freezing—was an invention of Muslim alchemists during this time. In particular, Geber (Jabir Ibn Hayyan, 721–815) invented the alembic still; he observed that heated wine from this still released a flammable vapor, which he described as "of little use, but of great importance to science". Not much later, al-Razi (864–930) described the distillation of alcohol and its use in medicine.[7]

The Persian physician and scientist Rhazes discovered techniques of distillation. The word was introduced into Europe, together with the art of distillation and the resulting substance itself, around the 12th century by various European authors who translated and popularized the discoveries of Islamic and Persian alchemists.[1]

The word "alcohol" almost certainly comes from the Arabic language, however, the precise etymology is unclear. "Al-" is the Arabic definite article, but the second part may be derived from the al-kuḥl, the name of an early distilled substance, or perhaps from al-ġawl, meaning "spirit" or "demon" and akin to liquors being called "spirits" in English.

 

[Enmos]

By whom?

They say it's because they are Muslim :shrug:

 

[S.A.M.]

Lets see what the Qur'an says:

They ask you (O Messenger) concerning alcohol, intoxicants, games of chance, and gambling and money earned without labor. Say, “There is great detriment in these things as well as some benefits for mankind. But the detriment of them is much greater than the benefit of them. They drag down the individual and collective social potential.” 2:219

The word "detriment" here is ithmun [ismun] and is derived as a cognate of the word asham in the bible, it is also used in other places in the Quran to denote guilt rather than sin [ e.g. If anyone changes the bequest after hearing it, the guilt shall be on those who make the change 2:181 as translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali].

And Mohammed?

The proof of a Muslim's sincerity is, that he pays no heed to that, which is not his business

Hail to those who are so concerned with improving their own faults, that they abstain from preoccupation with the flaws of other believers.

The most vicious among all men is he who is respected out of fear.

So if you are getting on the high horse because of being a Muslim, why not follow these examples instead?

 

[Meursalt]

Ah, for fucks sake.

You let her do it again, you stupid people.

 

[ripleofdeath]

Malaysia beer woman spared caning
Isn't this quaint? It's like a scene out of 1700s America.
Except she'd also probably be charged as a witch and flogged a couple times for measure

Do you think it's good justice? I mean, having two systems of law? One for he theist and one for non-theist? Does this woman need to renounce her faith in order to have a drink of beer? (oh, sorry that may be punishable as well).

All civilizations ... hell, since the time of Egypt drank beer. I wonder why Malaysia has criminalized it?

they choose to live by the sword and so shall die by the sword.
they breed blood lust in their society and seek to exercise violence at any opportunity.
they live as they choose and they are welcome to it but i will never go to their country.
they may as well be raping and eating children as far as i am concerned they could not be any more morally different to my ideology of life.

 

[spidergoat]

She broke the law, she should accept her punishment. That will teach everyone that Malaysia is no place anyone would want to go on purpose.

 

[Michael]

The isolation of ethanol (alcohol) as a pure compound was first achieved by Muslim chemists who developed the art of distillation during the Abbasid caliphate, the most notable of whom were Persian Jabir ibn Hayyan (Geber), Arab Al-Kindi (Alkindus) and Persian al-Razi (Rhazes). The writings attributed to Jabir ibn Hayyan (721-815) mention the flammable vapors of boiled wine. Al-Kindi (801-873) unambiguously described the distillation of wine.[6]

Pure distilled alcohol was first produced by Muslim chemists in the Islamic world during the 8th and 9th centuries. The development of the still with cooled collector—necessary for the efficient distillation of spirits without freezing—was an invention of Muslim alchemists during this time. In particular, Geber (Jabir Ibn Hayyan, 721–815) invented the alembic still; he observed that heated wine from this still released a flammable vapor, which he described as "of little use, but of great importance to science". Not much later, al-Razi (864–930) described the distillation of alcohol and its use in medicine.[7]

The Persian physician and scientist Rhazes discovered techniques of distillation. The word was introduced into Europe, together with the art of distillation and the resulting substance itself, around the 12th century by various European authors who translated and popularized the discoveries of Islamic and Persian alchemists.[1]

The word "alcohol" almost certainly comes from the Arabic language, however, the precise etymology is unclear. "Al-" is the Arabic definite article, but the second part may be derived from the al-kuḥl, the name of an early distilled substance, or perhaps from al-ġawl, meaning "spirit" or "demon" and akin to liquors being called "spirits" in English.

It's kind of ironic but this paragraph is a part of the reason why this woman was canned. There's a racism tied into the mentality of Islam. She's Malay so she must be a Muslims so she deserves a good canning. It's kind of an old fashioned way of thinking. About 3 generations back for us.




Wouldn't it be asinine to write about the invention of paper in this manner: The Taoist discovery of Taoist paper by the Taoist Scientist in the Taoist world was..... No, we talk about the first paper making process being developed in China by Chinese. Sure, they had a religion, it didn't make them "Taoist Scientists". There is no such a thing as Islamic math or Islamic science. Does SAM think she's typing into a Christian computer into the Christian internet sending information over to the Christian world? It's asinine.

It also obscures the fact the Islam hindered scientific progress in the same way that Christianity hindered it.


All of this is really the reason why Malaysia has these laws and essentially why this woman was supposed to be caned. I think one small step in the right direction would be recognizing Islamic Math is oxymoron.


maybe SAM can't see that "Muslim chemists" is propaganda? But, I'm sure if we were to constantly refer to all the modern inventions in the modern world as Christian (Christian computer, Christian math, Christian electricity, Christian planes, etc... ) it would become apparent that this is a kind of propaganda.

This sort of blending of religion (which isn't "real") and race (which is also not "real") act to perpetuate laws like "Cane the woman enjoying a beer".

Cane the woman (but she was Malay).
Cane the Malay (well she must be Muslim)
Cane the Muslim (oh, OK, then it's OK... but what about her friend? Oh, she was a "Chinese" Malay.. and really, what can you expect from them?)

See where's it's going?

There's a lot of re-education needed here.

Anyway,
Michael

 

[ripleofdeath]

She broke the law, she should accept her punishment. That will teach everyone that Malaysia is no place anyone would want to go on purpose.

pre frickin cisely

cant imagine a more horrendous place to go holiday with the blood thirsty poor people.

apart from bali or meyanmar or iran or iraq or egypt or israel or kuwait or saudi arabia... did i miss any ?
china ?

no ma'am cant say i have any desire to pretend im a lord over dirt poor sickly people who have blood lust and pursue religious genocide.
or rich people who think women are worth no more than cattle and homosexuals should be stoned to death.

to me the word "civilised" has a completely different meaning than a few billion other people.

 

[ripleofdeath]

There's a lot of re-education needed here.

Anyway,
Michael

indeed
notice how the tali ban or as some call them the hard line Muslims who other Muslims look to as a guide for what is completely devout kill little girls in cold blood for going to school.

funny how they seem to pick and choose things just to fit into western society so they can propagate their hate and violence as soon as they get let in the door.

all these underground shari courts in the uk are a good example of the type of crusading that they prosthetise christian Americans for.

 

[S.A.M.]

There's a lot of re-education needed here.

Anyway,
Michael

indeed. Kind of like saying western society, western medicine

pre frickin cisely

cant imagine a more horrendous place to go holiday with the blood thirsty poor people.

One major difference you will note with these "horrendous" societies and the other more educated and liberal, peace loving ones is the ability to reconsider their decisions. Public debate on an issue in these horrendous societies almost always leads to the people in authority overturning their decisions. In the educated, liberal and secular peace loving just societies, they continue to kill people at the same rate and in the same unjust way and just take it off the media platform. Which is why you have Michael worried about a woman almost caned in Malaysia but oblivious to the civilians killed everyday by his President [whom he voted into power and hence who represents him]

 

[ripleofdeath]

they continue to kill people at the same rate and in the same unjust way and just take it off the media platform

interesting way to frame it.

what is just is a matter of legality as by way of justice.

are you suggesting their is a governing law that all the worlds countries is supposed to adhere to ?

let them run their own country as they see fit.
rape their women for being promiscuous and stone them to death etc...
stone homosexuals to death.
chop off limbs of people
rape women when ever they feel like it
beat women if they feel like it

i dont care !
why should i ?

my objection is them coming over to my country and trying to establish their own blood thirsty blood lust society and committing genocide upon the peace seeking society that i choose to help maintain.

 

[S.A.M.]

my objection is them coming over to my country and trying to establish their own blood thirsty blood lust society and committing genocide upon the peace seeking society that i choose to help maintain.

Hmm would you like to switch sides with an Afghani here and perhaps listen to their objections over your "peace loving" society coming to their country and committing genocide? Or an Iraqi perhaps? Or pick any one of the military adventures that your peace loving society has been indulging itself with for the last century or so.

 

[Enmos]

Lets see what the Qur'an says:



The word "detriment" here is ithmun [ismun] and is derived as a cognate of the word asham in the bible, it is also used in other places in the Quran to denote guilt rather than sin [ e.g. If anyone changes the bequest after hearing it, the guilt shall be on those who make the change 2:181 as translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali].

And Mohammed?

The proof of a Muslim's sincerity is, that he pays no heed to that, which is not his business

Hail to those who are so concerned with improving their own faults, that they abstain from preoccupation with the flaws of other believers.

The most vicious among all men is he who is respected out of fear.

So if you are getting on the high horse because of being a Muslim, why not follow these examples instead?

I'm not disputing you, I'm just saying that, in that case, not all Muslims appear to be aware of what their own religion forbids them to do or not

 

[S.A.M.]

I'm not disputing you, I'm just saying that, in that case, not all Muslims appear to be aware of what their own religion forbids them to do or not

Yeah ignorance about Islam is the primary problem in Muslims today.
And of course, its useful to many to keep it that way.

 

[Enmos]

Yeah ignorance about Islam is the primary problem in Muslims today.
And of course, its useful to many to keep it that way.

It is said by some people that most Muslim immigrants are not from the cities but from backward rural areas, and that that's why our perception of Muslim culture/religion is skewed.
Do you think that's true ?

 

[S.A.M.]

It is said by some people that most Muslim immigrants are not from the cities but from backward rural areas, and that that's why our perception of Muslim culture/religion is skewed.
Do you think that's true ?

No idea, but I would guess that immigration to Europe is for manual labour rather than jobs for which Dutch workers can be found.

But I think its also a culture clash. Many Europeans find it hard to see a veil as anything other repression in the same way that many Easterners find it hard to see nudity as anything other than a lack of self respect. You can see the ways that western men will react to women in veils and the way eastern men react to women who are skimpily dressed.

Similarly, when you come from societies where physical space is culturally defined, you can see the differences between say a Chinese and a Norwegian where the Chinese idea of personal space is breathing on the other persons face and the Norwegians idea is at arms length. Or where Arab men walk around holding hands while a German guy would think they were gay [not sure about German male bonding rituals]

 

[Enmos]

No idea, but I would guess that immigration to Europe is for manual labour rather than jobs for which Dutch workers can be found.

But I think its also a culture clash. Many Europeans find it hard to see a veil as anything other repression in the same way that many Easterners find it hard to see nudity as anything other than a lack of self respect. You can see the ways that western men will react to women in veils and the way eastern men react to women who are skimpily dressed.

Similarly, when you come from societies where physical space is culturally defined, you can see the differences between say a Chinese and a Norwegian where the Chinese idea of personal space is breathing on the other persons face and the Norwegians idea is at arms length. Or where Arab men walk around holding hands while a German guy would think they were gay [not sure about German male bonding rituals]

I know, but they say that in the cities no such taboos exist and that the people are pretty western-minded (i.e. not much different from western eurpeans in their behavior).
"They" are, for example, people that often go on holiday to countries like Morocco and/or Turkey.

 

[Michael]

indeed. Kind of like saying western society, western medicine

I've taught at Medical School and outside of a history book I can say I have never read anything about "Western" medicine. It wouldn't make any sense at all unless to specifically contrast with Chinese herbal medicine and then it still doesn't make much sense, better to say medicine, full stop.

Come on SAM, how do you like your Christian electricity over there? Go well with your Christian television? And your Christian internet? How's the Christian telephone working for you? (starting to see a little silly now?). Do you REALLY think of electricity as a "Christian" invention? The only reason I bring this up is so you may see how this line of reasoning is leading to many of the problems facing people in so-called Islamic countries. The tide is moving away from Islam and towards neo-Islam and the traditionalists hate it. So they threaten to cane a girl for drinking a beer. It's lashing out in desperation really.