beer woman spared a good old fasioned caning

S.A.M. said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion
In some European countries becoming a citizen automatically makes you a member of the state church.
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Don't cloud the issue, SAM. A nation having a state religion does not compare to what constitutes (literally) the way an ethnic Malays life is determined.

I can't quite decide if you know all this and are pretending to be stupid so that you can compare Malaysia to Europe, or if you really are just stupid.
 
Meursalt said:
Don't cloud the issue, SAM. A nation having a state religion does not compare to what constitutes (literally) the way an ethnic Malays life is determined.

I can't quite decide if you know all this and are pretending to be stupid so that you can compare Malaysia to Europe, or if you really are just stupid.
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Its why many European states have no jus soli. You cannot become a citizen simply by being born there, you have to have the correct ethnicity for that.

Note that the Malays followed jus soli until after exposure to western nation states, when they began to follow jus sanguinis
 
That applies over the entire world, SAM, not just to Europe.

And I'll ask you once more... are you seriously going to try to compare the effects of a European renouncing his religion with those of a Malay doing the same thing?
 
Meursalt said:
And I'll ask you once more... are you seriously going to try to compare the effects of a European renouncing his religion with those of a Malay doing the same thing?
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Depends on what the current religion of Europe is. While the state religion may be Christianity, I think everyone generally agrees that its apostate now. But yeah, I do think that if Europe adopts secularism as their new religion, then what we are seeing in Afghanistan is just the preview. Perhaps they may decide to liberate more people who are not like them, let alone evict or deport them.
 
That "answer" had very little to do with what I asked you.

It has nothing to do with what religion a European is... unless, of course, he's from an migrant family.
You know he'd still have a family in the majority of cases.
You know his status in the eyes of the law would not change.
You know he would not be subject to ostracism.
You know it wouldn't matter who he married.

You, SAM, are just a thoroughly dishonest person.
Have a quick leaf through your little book which tells you about dishonesty. You're being very bad, you know. On your knees, and ask for forgiveness.
 
Meursalt said:
That "answer" had very little to do with what I asked you.

It has nothing to do with what religion a European is... unless, of course, he's from an migrant family.
You know he'd still have a family in the majority of cases.
You know his status in the eyes of the law would not change.
You know he would not be subject to ostracism.
You know it wouldn't matter who he married.

You, SAM, are just a thoroughly dishonest person.
Have a quick leaf through your little book which tells you about dishonesty. You're being very bad, you know. On your knees, and ask for forgiveness.
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Nah I just look at the original natives still running the show in all these places and think, thank God not everything was replaced.

For all their talk on tolerant societies, its still the same ole people who are killing by the hundreds of thousands, people who are not like them.

And as usual, they think they are doing everyone a favour.

So, ooh the Malays almost caned a woman for drinking beer? Gee thats a World Event.
But the people being burned with white phosphorus on a regular basis? Business as usual. :yawn:
 
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It's all right, SAM.

I've learned to expect nothing from you. Not honesty, not wisdom, not tolerance.
And certainly not a direct answer.

You are exactly the same as those you hate.
 
Meursalt said:
It's all right, SAM.

I've learned to expect nothing from you. Not honesty, not wisdom, not tolerance.
And certainly not a direct answer.

You are exactly the same as those you hate.
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Hmm you're right. The Malays generally tolerant society with its random extremists cannot in any way be comparable to the horrendous tragedies inflicted on the world by the secular ones

God save us from good intentions.
 
SAM said:
Like ethnic Europeans are members of the Lutheran church?
- - - -
In some European countries becoming a citizen automatically makes you a member of the state church.
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In a quick check, I can't find a single European state in which being or becoming a citizen automatically enrolls you in the Lutheran church. The highest percentage of Lutheran citizenry I found in a quick check was about 80%.
SAM said:
Its why many European states have no jus soli. You cannot become a citizen simply by being born there, you have to have the correct ethnicity for that.
Click to expand...

I can't find a single European state in which ethnicity of any kind is a requirement for citizenship.

I can't find a single European state in which anything like this Malaysian situation would be possible.

What you are claiming for "European" seems to false even for individual countries in Europe, let alone the whole.

I'm not even sure what you are talking about when you say "ethnic European". A discussion of that with reference to, say, Switzerland, might be clarifying.
 
iceaura said:
In a quick check, I can't find a single European state in which being or becoming a citizen automatically enrolls you in the Lutheran church. The highest percentage of Lutheran citizenry I found in a quick check was about 80%.


I can't find a single European state in which ethnicity of any kind is a requirement for citizenship.

I can't find a single European state in which anything like this Malaysian situation would be possible.

What you are claiming for "European" seems to false even for individual countries in Europe, let alone the whole.

I'm not even sure what you are talking about when you say "ethnic European". A discussion of that with reference to, say, Switzerland, might be clarifying.
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jus sanguinis:

Apart from France, jus sanguinis still is the preferred means of passing on citizenship in many continental European countries, with benefits of maintaining culture and national identity as well as ethnic homogeneity. This has been criticised by some on the grounds that, if it is the only means, and were a group of immigrants to intra-marry, it could lead to generations of people living their whole lives in the state without being citizens of it - according to Agamben, thus likening their status to an homo sacer, deprived of any civil rights.[citation needed]. Some countries provide almost the same rights as a citizen to people born in the country, without actually giving them citizenship. An example is 'Indfødsret' of Denmark. When you're 18 you can then decide to take a test to gain citizenship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis
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I don't think any European country has immigrants from China since several hundred years? Or any other non-European country?


I think you'll find, if you look that the Malays have no troops imposing their social liberties on civilians in other countries. What they have are a few power freaks that they seem to be able to keep in much better check that those power freaks who are let loose on the world by the "secularists". When was the last time something that almost happened made it to the news in the west? Even the stuff that does happen can barely reach the media.
 
SAM said:
I don't think any European country has immigrants from China since several hundred years? Or any other non-European country?
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What are you trying to say?

If you are claiming that there are many European countries with ethnicity requirements for citizenship, please name a few of the countries and the ethnicity they require, so that we may take a look at their alleged similarities to this Malaysian Islamic folly.
SAM said:
I think you'll find, if you look that the Malays have no troops imposing their social liberties on civilians in other countries.
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Incapability is not virtue.
SAM said:
When was the last time something that almost happened made it to the news in the west? Even the stuff that does happen can barely reach the media.
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Excellent, and telling, point - in some other discussion.

But Western media has an irresistible pull toward "News of the Weird", and quite a bit of this sharia and Islamic law stuff is weird. Like this.
 
She was drinking beer in public and its Ramadan.

But really, by Islamic rules its no one's business if she is fasting or drinking.
 
S.A.M. said:
She was drinking beer in public and its Ramadan.

But really, by Islamic rules its no one's business if she is fasting or drinking.
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Doesn't it make you a bad Muslim though ? I mean, isn't it forbidden for Muslims to drink alcohol (and especially during Ramadan) ?
 
iceaura said:
What are you trying to say?

If you are claiming that there are many European countries with ethnicity requirements for citizenship, please name a few of the countries and the ethnicity they require, so that we may take a look at their alleged similarities to this Malaysian Islamic folly.
Incapability is not virtue.
Click to expand...

So you know of some time, e.g. during the Islamic Caliphate, when Malaysians were bombing people into liberation?

The Malays are probably the most laid back people there are. Thats why the most weird news you can get from them is that some of them get cranky in Ramadan.
Excellent, and telling, point - in some other discussion.

But Western media has an irresistible pull toward "News of the Weird", and quite a bit of this sharia and Islamic law stuff is weird. Like this.
Click to expand...

Guess we all have our own definitions of weird. Me, I personally think throwing white phosphorus on children because you want to "liberate" them is very very weird and beats any almost caning for drinking beer. But I bet no one even knows the name of the girl in Afghanistan who is "recovering" at the charity of those who killed and melted her family and burned her.
 
I don't see what the big deal is. There are so many worse things going on. Its the law, she broke it.
 
Enmos said:
Doesn't it make you a bad Muslim though ? I mean, isn't it forbidden for Muslims to drink alcohol (and especially during Ramadan) ?
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Its not anyone elses business how you do or do not practice Islam.

Even Mohammed was not allowed to tell anyone that they must follow something. .

"And we have sent you not but as a mercy for those who understand" (21:107)

"It (this Quran) is only a reminder for those who understand." (38:87, 12:104, 6:90, and 81:27)

"(Mohammed) You are only a warner and for every nation there is a guide." (13:7)

When even Mohammed was "only a warner" how can anyone else be more than that?
 
S.A.M. said:
Its not anyone elses business how you do or do not practice Islam.

Even Mohammed was not allowed to tell anyone that they must follow something. .

"And we have sent you not but as a mercy for those who understand" (21:107)

"It (this Quran) is only a reminder for those who understand." (38:87, 12:104, 6:90, and 81:27)

"(Mohammed) You are only a warner and for every nation there is a guide." (13:7)

When even Mohammed was "only a warner" how can anyone else be more than that?
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Ok, but I think you will agree that that is a liberal take on Islam.
 
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