Buddha1 said:Although in the past I'd leave the discussion with you when it got to this part (about nature, mythology, femininity and patriarchy), because, yes I do not have enough knowledge about mythology --- and its totally difficult for me to understand your concepts.....but I can definitely see that you're barking up the wrong tree.
me))))))ahaaaaa, but how do you KNOW i am if as yo say you are not au fe with mythologial history?
it is wise to look at the ROOTS dont ya think?
Maybe I did, but then I asked you a question about......what was that, ecclestial something.....you've never replied to that.
me)))can you remember the url of that thread?i will try and reply then
Yes, earth is seen as feminine because it gives birth and sustains, but then nature is not only this earth. There is also the sky which is seen as masculine. And so many other symbols of nature. I think you've built on a theory on the heterosexual stereotypes of men being heteroseuxal, masculine and bad.
me)))well you are showing your ignoreance-wirth respect-regarding the prepatriarchal cosmological understandig. in that Strea there was see to be no division between heaven ad earth. it is the patriarchas who 'slice' up the Goddess! and from there desigante her place as earth and denigrate it whilst deifying the 'male' heavens
The patriarchal mindset is nothing but a cliche, and a superficial one at that, which seeks to judge men from what feminists see on the outside, compeletely ignoring the pain and suffereing that men go through on the inside. Men and masculinity are as much a part of nature as women and femininity. Men love nature as well as women do!
me)))Buddha1, your confusing a male MINDSET which is patriarchal with ALL males. i am not
a.) the ancient mythology and the church are far removed from each other and no comparison is valid. What church did cannot be blamed on men or masculinity.
me)))rubbish. anceint mythology was major influence on church, and from there the patriarcha bias frm their chosen pagan approriations and their Judaic christian additions completely alsmost dismiss Goddes. in this myth, Nature becomes th 'shit of the devil'!
b.) Sure women have received a lot from patriarchy. We can discuss this again. Soon.
me)))go tell it to he women who have been abused and batyered by the patriarchy. listen to THEM. not male apologists. same as listen to the VICTIMS of psychiatry, NOT the shrinks.
I see logic in this.....
If you mean that men and masculinity have dehumanised women and femininity, then I don't agree. AT least not completely. For me men are as much victims as women and two-spirited people.
me))please listen closely B,cause i have said itmanyt times before. men HAVEben victims of the patriarchy, of COURSE theyt have. so what we are on about is not ALL men, but a mindset that is prticular for males. clear?
Males are just as fond of nature as anybody else. Even to think otherwise is being biased.
me))))))of course. see above.
Tooooooooooo far fetched and based on stereotypes.
me))forget what that was referring to, sorry
By 'elites' if you mean 'heterosexual', then let me remind you that till as late as the Greeks men considered those who loved women or were promiscuous with women to be effeminate --- and thus 'unmanly'. Femininity in males had become denigrated even in the times of the Greeks which celebrated love between men as masculine.
me))))))yes i know and which proves that is is the FEMININE a certain male mindset fears, which also for thm includes Nature.
The heterosexuals became Elites much later --- gradually as Christianity took hold. Actually heterosexuals did not become elites till the onset of the 20th century. Today, they rule the roost. That doesn't mean you can view the past just by extrapolating 'today'.
mePPPit means the hetero patriarchal men have ruled the roost for lots longer than 20th century. why you think they went on and on in Bible etc about the rule for procreation?!....and their condemnation of males sleeping with males...?
You haven't yet answered to the account of denigration of femininity that I have enumerated in the thread "men and masculinity". Perhaps you haven't considered it because it doesn't fit in your concept of things or ideology. But unless you do, we can't get ahead.
i find it truly sad when men put down feminism. for it is they who have totally deconstructed the patriarchal scam. always depend on the victims to one day find a way.
i eel with you B, ou seem in your way misogynistic. sorry, but tis is how your sounding--to me at any rate.