Attitudes to rape

[Bells]

it goes without saying if the woman is unconscious she has not consented? credit sciforum posters with some intelligence leo???

It is difficult to credit a person of being intelligent when they can come out with:

Rape is when a man forceabley against the wishes of the female has sex with her, I guess it becomes a tad ambiguous in the situation I cited previously, thus it is not a case of whether rape is permissable but rather a case of is it rape?

If both parties are dating, both drunk, both engaging in the act blatantly with consent, to then call it rape afterwards is a nonsense as far as I am concerned. Many people regret what they get up to when drunk or after taking (willingly) drugs, but they understand they did it all willingly at the time.

It is VERY difficult territory, but if you can't handle your drink or are worried about how you behave with drink, do not drink. Do not flirt, so not engage men in physical activity. Do not say yes, grab his cock and ask for a fuck when in the morning you may think, oh shit what did I do last night?

People need to take responsibility for their actions.

All the men I know will leave a blatantly drunk to the point of falling over female alone when she makes sexual advances, because they know she may not be fully in possession of her faculties and in that state she is not very appealing.

But the others, who can stand and hold a decent level of conversation? They should know what they are doing. If they don't then I hope their pals look after them.

Credit is given where it is due and deserved. In your case, you fail dismally. You really are as gormless as your posts project you as being...

 

[Absane]

Absane:

The point is that sex without consent is rape. It doesn't matter if you're in a relationship, including marriage. Being married to somebody doesn't give somebody some kind of God-given right to sex whenever they want it.

Do you think it does?

Oh I know marriage does not give this right to any person... but I was just confused on whether rape can actually happen when the two made the huge jump to get married. I assume they trust eachother and respest eachother enough at this point. However, I have never been married so I do not have first hand experience.

Nobody wants to be raped. I can only assume that you have no idea what rape is about if you think it is something the victim would enjoy or desire.

If some guy grabbed you in a dark alley and forced you into anal sex, would you enjoy that? Do you dream of that?

I do not know what, but I was considering only heterosexual rape. I think most men dream of being raped by female's, especially the "hot" ones. I am sorry I was not clear about that.

Same sex rape is not desirable by either sex and women do not want to be raped by men.

This is not the point of the question in the thread, and a lot of people seem confused about that for some reason.

I did not ask about whether wearing skimpy clothing might or might not make a person more likely to be victimised. I asked whether people think that wearing skimpy clothing should somehow excuse the rapist, or make the rape the woman's fault, so that the man's liability is diminished.

Well I do not hold to the belief that women that dress "skimpy" should accept the fact that they might get raped, but I think they need to understand that dressing in such a way opens some sort of "door" in a man's brain... and those with very little self-control just might do something about it. So I wonder, if she wore plain clothes that day instead of "sexy" clothes, would she have been raped? Did she know conciously that she was putting her body out like that? Does she crave lots of sexual attention? If all this is "yes," are we right to place even one-tenth of one percent of blame on her? I propose yes, HOWEVER.. as I said before I made the assumption that the man was fully conscious of his intents and actions. Therefore, whether or not she was inviting herself to have such an act done, the fault is fully on the male and since he had the ability to control himself, nothing should lessen his punishment.

Question: Is rape sexual contact that is not consented to the entire time? Or just not consented to at first encounter? If it's the former, then we are both working on different definitions (sort of). At times I assume the first definition, and other times the latter. Maybe I should fix that,

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Oh I know marriage does not give this right to any person... but I was just confused on whether rape can actually happen when the two made the huge jump to get married. I assume they trust eachother and respest eachother enough at this point. However, I have never been married so I do not have first hand experience.



I do not know what, but I was considering only heterosexual rape. I think most men dream of being raped by female's, especially the "hot" ones. I am sorry I was not clear about that.

Same sex rape is not desirable by either sex and women do not want to be raped by men.



Well I do not hold to the belief that women that dress "skimpy" should accept the fact that they might get raped, but I think they need to understand that dressing in such a way opens some sort of "door" in a man's brain... and those with very little self-control just might do something about it. So I wonder, if she wore plain clothes that day instead of "sexy" clothes, would she have been raped? Did she know conciously that she was putting her body out like that? Does she crave lots of sexual attention? If all this is "yes," are we right to place even one-tenth of one percent of blame on her? I propose yes, HOWEVER.. as I said before I made the assumption that the man was fully conscious of his intents and actions. Therefore, whether or not she was inviting herself to have such an act done, the fault is fully on the male and since he had the ability to control himself, nothing should lessen his punishment.

Question: Is rape sexual contact that is not consented to the entire time? Or just not consented to at first encounter? If it's the former, then we are both working on different definitions (sort of). At times I assume the first definition, and other times the latter. Maybe I should fix that,

Actually absane, some women also have 'rape' fantasies but it is generally with their partner and will involve consent, so technically not rape. But they may fantasise about being taken by surprise by their partner, they will feign resistance etc. But this type of thing has to be mutually discussed and agreed in advance and have a 'safe word' so the if the woman changes her mind, he clearly knows.

Meanwhile rape can happen in a relationship, if the woman says no and genuinely means it and the man forces himself upon her, then it remains rape. Consenting to be in a relationship does not mean you consent to having sex whenever the male desires it.

use the following guidance Ab if you are confused - no means No.

Unless it is role paly in which case, the 'safe word' means no.

Regards dress, men view women in skimpy clothing as 'easy lays, so if you do not wish to be seen as such do not dress as such. It is all very well asserting a right to dress how we please but denying the effect it has on others is ignorance. BUt still no licence for rape.

 

[mountainhare]

ToR:

If both parties are dating, both drunk, both engaging in the act blatantly with consent, to then call it rape afterwards is a nonsense as far as I am concerned.

Agreed.

It makes me wonder why some people think that a drunk man cannot be raped, whereas a drunk woman can be.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

I'd also add that sexy/revealing clothing, promiscuity (past and present), flirtation, and past sex with the rapist, whilst not taking away from its categorization as rape (presuming it meets that categorization) does place some of the blame for provoking the act on the woman. That is to say, we cannot say that a woman who is basically begging for sexual attention is not partially to blame for bringing herself into a position where she is raped. Also, I see very little reason to care about being raped (presuming one is not harmed in the act) if one is promiscious unless one is currently in a relationship.

Pj, as a promiscuous guy (lets assume for arguments sake you are) is it thus ok for you to be raped by another man, you wouldn't care?


You would not feel violated, abused, dirty, fearful of recurrance, worried about STD's, worried (not in your case obviously) about pregancy and subsequent abortion? You would not feel ashamed and afraid to tell your closest family/friends?

Rape is more than physcial harm PJ it is emotionally damaging. There is ahuge diff. between allowing and consenting to penetration and having a stranger force it upon you, possibly with a threat to your life.

Consider yourself being raped, then answer the question.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

ToR:

Agreed.

It makes me wonder why some people think that a drunk man cannot be raped, whereas a drunk woman can be.

men can be raped when drunk, just less likely. Most men cant get an erection when THAT drunk that they can't stand or talk

 

[imaplanck.]

men can be raped when drunk, just less likely. Most men cant get an erection when THAT drunk that they can't stand or talk

I dont know if thats true, I can get an errection when practically comatose by drink. Anyway I thought male rape was almost exclusively anal penetration from another man.

 

[iam]

The belief that rape is somehow natural for a human is using false excuses. No person would feel liking raping anyone if they saw the other party as a person not an object. This is the same type of narcissistic mindframe of a criminal hurting others is okay because it is not yourself being hurt. The deception is that emotions are as much due to our internal values than just biologic drives. Emotions tend to build on top of one another, so if you feel seriously like raping then you might consider taking a look at your character, values, and self-deception and not just placing the blame on an urge. If a person respected the sanctity of anothers life and feelings as they do their own, the truth is these feelings would never escalate to the point of rape because you would stop yourself and thats the reality and the truth. People who want what they want when they really don't truly care about the rights of others because all they care about is their feelings and needs will always make excuses and place the blame on the victim or convince themselves the victim wanted it so they don't have to take responsibility or control of their feelings or actions. Clever? Not really, pretty obvious actually.

To the rapist ANYTHING that incites their sexual feelings, which are always of a depraved nature because these feelings are also rooted in a complete lack of regard and disrespect of the other person and a desire to corrupt, is fair game. Think about it, to the rapists mind, if they are turned on then somehow you were asking for it, thats how it works. The skimpy clothes is window dressing as an excuse.

 

[Pete]

Hi James,

i.e. consent or lack thereof is the deciding element. Right?

Consent or lack thereof is the deciding element of whether rape occurred, but in the absence of consent a reasonable perception of consent might mitigate guilt.

Do you think drunkedness of the offender should mitigate against, say, a culpable driving charge, too? What about if somebody gets drunk and commits an act of vandalism? Should he get a lighter sentence as a result?

Quite possibly, yes. It's called diminished responsibility (although in Australia, "diminished responsibility" only applies legally to murder, I think). The case of driving is a little more complex, since being drunk behind the wheel is itself a separate crime.

Do you think, like PJ, that being married or in a relationship is equivalent to an open-ended contract for sexual favors? Surely not. (?)

Certainly not.
As I said, I don't suggest it would mitigate guilt in all situations, and I don't suggest in any case that being in a relationship makes non-consensual sex not rape.

 

[Absane]

use the following guidance Ab if you are confused - no means No.

I know. I am not confused about real life. I am just making up situations in my head and asking why or how. Trying to get into the psychology and mechanics of it all.

I know cause/effect in real life. If A implies B and I do the opposite of A, I shouldn't be suprised whether B comes up or not.

 

[iam]

^Are you serious? So your implying and condoning the ridiculous smokescreen that one is not responsible for one's actions if they feel like doing it. So if a person walks into a store and sees something they want and are tempted to steal, it is justified because of the degree of lust for the object? lol So if a woman has perky breasts and a man is turned on, she was inciting the rape and so its not his fault? He/she/it can be turned on all it wants, BOILING FUKING HOT, BUT HE/SHE/IT BETTER STOP THEMSELVES RAPING ANOTHER BECAUSE IT IS THEIR S O L E RESPONSIBILITY AND NO ONE ELSE'S! PERIOD! A PERSON'S ATTRACTIVENESS OR EVEN IF THEY WALK AROUND BUTT FUKING NAKED IS NOT IN ANY WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR INCITING RAPING FEELINGS IN ANOTHER. RAPE, I REPEAT, RAPE LIKE FEELINGS ARE THE DEPRAVITY AND RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PERSON FEELING THEM. ITS LIKE PRETENDING YOU CAN'T DO , CHANGE, STOP SOMETHING WHEN YOU KNOW YOU CAN AND BLAMING IT ON THE OTHER WHEN IN FACT YOU JUST DID NOT WANT TO CONTROL YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO GIVE IN TO YOUR FEELINGS.

You know i broke down on the highway one time, I'm a very preppy looking female. I had to take my car into a mom and pop garage and this is what I was wearing a long beige set of shorts midknee, dark blue polo shirt, and sneakers. This african american mechanic kept calling me over to check out my car, it seemed normal at first then when he was under the car, he kept telling me to come closer so that he could look into the opening of my shorts, they were very long and flared but he assumed he could get a closer look because they were flared. Take note, they were not tight or attractive AT ALL. Then he got up and asked me to sit in the drivers seat and check out the clutch as I was doing this he was staring at my crotch THROUGH MY CLOTHING. I FELT VIOLATED and he was obviously very turned on. Perverts are perverts no matter what you do because they are invasive because they don't respect the other person. What I know about people, if tomorow we all forego clothing and walk around in our birthday suit, it would NEVER condone the rape or violation of another person IN ANY WAY. And thats that!

 

[Absane]

^Are you serious? So your implying and condoning the ridiculous smokescreen that one is not responsible for one's actions if they feel like doing it. So if a person walks into a store and sees something they want and are tempted to steal, it is justified because of the degree of lust for the object?

Who are you talking to? I hope it's not me because I voted how I feel: "None of the above."

 

[Baron Max]

I am not confused about real life.

Geez, must be nice! I've lived for some 63 years now and life is constantly confusing me ...and changing all the time, too, to make matters even worse.

How can you NOT be confused about real life???

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

...as I was doing this he was staring at my crotch THROUGH MY CLOTHING. I FELT VIOLATED...

Sure don't take much to make you feel "violated", does it!

Perhaps you should consider wearing a Muslim burkah and veil, huh?

Baron Max

 

[iam]

He was purposely glaring at me trying to get a glimpse of my private parts in some way, it is rude and invasive. If you can't understand that, then you're a numbskull or a neanderthal.

 

[S.A.M.]

He was purposely glaring at me trying to get a glimpse of my private parts in some way, it is rude and invasive. If you can't understand that, then you're a numbskull or a neanderthal.

Worse. He's single.

 

[Baron Max]

Even worse than that, Sam ....I'm single AND a neanderthal!

I've spent most of my life looking at women who bend over in front of me, just trying to tempt me to look at their hot, little pussy. They do it to try to attract some particular male, but then get offended if some other male looks, too. Sad, ain't it?

Baron Max

 

[iam]

You work really hard to be obtuse, don't you? to justify your false, deceptive and erroneous crap. The point was I was not bending over, or trying to get attention, or even flirting or initiating anything. This individual was ethically wrong. Of course, there is nothing you can do about someone like this but get away. He did not treat me with the respect that should be exercised when dealing with another person. And even if someone were to flirt, they have a right to change their mind, both men and women exercise this right. Even people who go to bars looking for one night stands will dress provocatively and understand others will look or check them out but there are clear boundaries between flirting and looking at what is revealed and being invasive and inappropriate. The example you cited above the woman is wrong to bend over to get attention when other men that she does not want to attract could see what she does not want them to. This is a ridiculously narrow example because you are talking about an amoral b*tch rather than many more situations where people are disrespected and boundaries crossed where it shouldn't.

 

[Baron Max]

The point was I was not bending over, or trying to get attention, or even flirting or initiating anything.

So what? You were there, is it against the law for people to look at others? Is it against the law to look at a pretty girl? Is there something in the look that's horribly threatening to you?

This individual was ethically wrong. Of course, there is nothing you can do about someone like this but get away.

Ethically wrong? What? Just looking at you? Because he found you attractive? That's ethically wrong? Do you want people to look away whenever you're around ...to not look at you?

He did not treat me with the respect that should be exercised when dealing with another person.

Respect? He didn't even know you, did he? And for all you know, he treated you exactly like he's been treating other women for years.

Personally, I think you should have been inwardly flattered, without showing anything to him, of course. He found you attractive enough to look at you, that must mean something ....even for a woman like you!

Baron Max

 

[Absane]

Geez, must be nice! I've lived for some 63 years now and life is constantly confusing me ...and changing all the time, too, to make matters even worse.

How can you NOT be confused about real life???

Baron Max

LOL. Sorry. The meaning I was going for is that I have no problem differentiating between real life and what I make in my head.

I think..