Atheists

[Lerxst]

How about we just obliterate all religion and then there won't be any more problem?

It might help in many ways, but the basic problem is still there. Religious extremism is a symptom, not a cause. There is an underlying, primal problem with humans - we have evolved to function in groups and compete with other groups for resources. Just like many other primates. Even without the issue of Christianity vs. Islam, the middle east still has plenty of potential for violence and horror. When a weaker group possesses natural resources that a powerful group really wants, you hardly need a religious excuse for conflict (although the religious element simply makes it that much worse). Even without religion, there are crazy, powerful individuals in North Korea that could potentially start a nuclear crisis. The cold war, which could quite possibly have come to a very ugly end for all of us, was largely a secular issue.

There has not been an evolutionary reason for us to want to all get along nicely, unfortunately. It would be more rational, but we are not primarily rational creatures, at least in terms of numbers. Greed and power-lust and other basic urges are still stronger forces, it seems. Even without religion, we'd keep killing each other. The seeds were planted and the killing begun long before anyone thought up Jehovah or Allah.

 

[Mythbuster]

If nobody was listening to God, there would be nothing left for us to do but listen to each other.

 

[qwerty mob]

I hear ya...

 

[Lerxst]

If nobody was listening to God....

But most people would still only want to listen to "their own kind." People related to them. People that looked like them. People that speak the same language as them.

And there would still be plenty of people that would lie, cheat and steal because even the within-group amity is not strong for them. Assholes and greedy politicians and unscrupulous corporate thugs are a statistical inevitability. As are the gullible people willing to do anything for them as long as they are made to feel important in return. To feel like they are part of the team.

We'd still have nationalism. We'd still have people clinging to the idea that "their" heritage is innately better than the heritage of other people.

We are a fucked-up species, God or no God.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Lerxst & Superluminal,

Yep there are some underlying human needs and behaviors that atheistic thinking doesn't address at present. My interpretation of it is that people need a deep relationship with themselves and good relationships with others (under something common that generates intense positive emotion and attractive appeal). Figure this out and I suspect that we can use evidence-based thinking to appeal rationally and reality-based positive relationships to appeal emotionally.

My IQ vs. EQ are very different unfortunately and that combination has not led to a complete understanding / answer yet; however, between all atheists we might be able to crack this nut.

 

[Hapsburg]

once we figure out a good appeal to emotion

Such as:
"Menschheit, Vorwärts! für ihrer Sorte und Vaterland, Marsch Vorwärts, und erobern alle! Die Weltall ist ihre, Humanität! nehmen Sie ihn!"

 

[spamandham]

So, how did you guys come to the conclusion there is no god? I mean did you wake up one night thought there isn't a god? Or did you do some research?

It's simple really. Those making a nontrivial claim need to back it up or be summarily dismissed. This is the default position all of us use in our daily lives.

What do you have to back up your claim?

 

[Muslim]

Does it really matter? I mean believing in a god yes we don't have evidence to prove god, and god may-well not even exist. It kind of creates a bond and keeps people in a limit. I mean image this, one-day the government announces that is it, there are no more laws and no one is going to get punished for their actions. What do you think would happen?

Try to look at things in prospective, think about the ancient world. When there was no laws or lack of, everyone was killing each other it was like one tribe vs the other tribe. Religion and the belief in a god brings stability. And sometimes it goes beyond that there are family issues ect, ect its just better on a whole rather to believe in a god then not to.

 

[KennyJC]

Try to look at things in prospective, think about the ancient world. When there was no laws or lack of, everyone was killing each other it was like one tribe vs the other tribe. Religion and the belief in a god brings stability. And sometimes it goes beyond that there are family issues ect, ect its just better on a whole rather to believe in a god then not to.

For the gazillionth time to a theist who thinks God is needed for social control: In secular democracies, society is far healthier than all/most societies with strong beliefs in God. Those are the facts.

 

[Muslim]

For the gazillionth time to a theist who thinks God is needed for social control: In secular democracies, society is far healthier than all/most societies with strong beliefs in God. Those are the facts.

Just because you live in a secular society doesn't mean you don't believe in a god. 90% of people living in a secular society believe in a god. I am talking about not have a belief in god particularly.

 

[Sarkus]

It kind of creates a bond and keeps people in a limit. I mean image this, one-day the government announces that is it, there are no more laws and no one is going to get punished for their actions. What do you think would happen?

What do taking laws away have to do with taking religion away?

If you took religion away - there would still be the laws of the land, no?

Christianity has 10 explicit laws, as far as I can tell.
The UK has somewhat more than that - and the US... well, I have no idea.
But did God really tell us not to use mobile phones while driving?
Or not to smoke in a public place?

And if you think that existing laws are only what they are and exist only because of religion - think again. Laws are required for any ruling body to govern the masses. The acceptability of those laws determines the nature of the society.

Try to look at things in prospective, think about the ancient world. When there was no laws or lack of, everyone was killing each other it was like one tribe vs the other tribe.

LOL! The ancient world had tribal warfare, true, all the way up to... well, modern day, really, with the tribes of Africa still going for it headstrong!

And then, of course, there was all the conflict BECAUSE OF RELIGION - or at least using religion as the excuse.

Religion and the belief in a god brings stability. And sometimes it goes beyond that there are family issues ect, ect

You mean like in Iraq - where religious beliefs are causing continued instability?

Religion brings stability only where everyone in the population has the same ideas of faith. Remove the religion, and make everyone follow the LAWS and you achieve the same.
Religion is a TOOL often used to achieve stability - but in a changing world, where religions mix, it can cause the opposite.

...its just better on a whole rather to believe in a god then not to.

Pascal's wager, with a modicum of confusion between religious belief and common sense thrown in for good measure.

WHY IS IT BETTER?

Explain to me how my values, my behaviour, would be any different if I believed in a God or not - other than possibly being made to feel guilty for not doing things such as giving to charity, or not going to church.

My actions to my fellow human-being HAVE NOT CHANGED since I realised I was atheist. My actions are those of COMMON SENSE - not religion.

 

[KennyJC]

Just because you live in a secular society doesn't mean you don't believe in a god. 90% of people living in a secular society believe in a god. I am talking about not have a belief in god particularly.

I think the figure is around 30 to 44% atheist/agnostic in the UK. Your 90% believers in a secular society is optimistic.

If you are talking about a belief in God only, then why do nations with higher percentages of atheism, perform better socially? Your argument about a belief in God being important for a society to be secure does not hold water. It's a common misconception held by theists.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Most of the believers in a secular society actually do not belong to an organized religion. They feel that there is something like a god, but do not really believe in the dogmas of organized religion. They fill in some blanks by themselves, leave most actually open. They put god in the background of their lives, not in the forefront. Something that hovers around them from a great distance. Religion is something personal and they will not go on the street just because, hmm...let's say for instance a religious symbol is used in a cartoon.

And many people don't give a shit about religion.

 

[Lerxst]

Most of the believers in a secular society actually do not belong to an organized religion. They feel that there is something like a god, but do not really believe in the dogmas of organized religion. They fill in some blanks by themselves, leave most actually open. They put god in the background of their lives, not in the forefront. Something that hovers around them from a great distance. Religion is something personal and they will not go on the street just because, hmm...let's say for instance a religious symbol is used in a cartoon.

This is absolutely correct. And those people who can keep their religious ideas properly restrained and private are of no danger to anyone. In fact, they are good friends to us nontheists - they oppose extremism and fundamentalism and bigotry as much as we do. Look at an organization like Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. They are headed up by a liberal Chrisitan minister. This man is one of the best allies that atheists have in this country - he represents you, he fights for your rights. Is it a case of politcs and strange bedfellows? Perhaps to some extent. But the point is, in today's world, it is not an issue of atheist vs. theist that is crucial, it is moderates vs. extremists.

I'll live under a government of diestic, Unitarian Jeffersons any day.

 

[iam]

If only they didn't overstep the boundaries of other's rights to believe or not to believe it would be okay. But they are like a virus trying to turn everyone else into them. Thats powermongering through religion. Separation of church and state is the balance to respect and protect every individual's rights to religious freedom. The root problem lies in their religious ideology which inherently does not.

 

[Lemming3k]

I mean image this, one-day the government announces that is it, there are no more laws and no one is going to get punished for their actions. What do you think would happen?

That most people, religious or not, would do whatever they could for personal gain, if someone gave me a dollar for everytime i had to say this to a religious person i'd be very rich by now -

Religion and a belief in god has no bearing on morality.

You seem to think if someone doesnt believe in god they automatically have no morals, this is not the case, for one thing even morality can be subjective, is it because they dont follow your religious laws? What about someone elses? What about laws of the country they reside in? Even some religious people do not follow laws of their religion or their countrys own laws.
Belief in god has no bearing on how someone behaves.

 

[Lerxst]

If only they didn't overstep the boundaries of other's rights to believe or not to believe it would be okay. But they are like a virus trying to turn everyone else into them. Thats powermongering through religion. Separation of church and state is the balance to respect and protect every individual's rights to religious freedom. The root problem lies in their religious ideology which inherently does not.

A private religious conviction cannot be evangelical. There are plenty of religious folks who could care less about trying to convert anybody.

The problem isn't that Joe Blow wants other people to think as he does - that is natural, to some extent. The only problem is his thinking that he has some kind of right to enforce his ideas on others.

I wouldn't want to live in a society where free exchange of ideas, including religious ideas, is frowned upon.

 

[Muslim]

Lets see how many "enlightened" atheists will condemn this Anomalous for being condescending to me.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

i do not believe in "god".

but i do ot attack god or peoples beliefs. i respect all views on life and the universe.
i may be said to be an athiest, but there are different types, and some are very offensive, and believe others to be morons because they believe something different.

i am a daotheist maybe.


peace.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Lets see how many "enlightened" atheists will condemn this Anomalous for being condescending to me.

yes i agree with you, but he dosent see you as equal to him, so he shouldent treat believers with the same respect as someone on his level of inteligence.

like religious people are stuck in a set idealistic view of the universe and life. so are athiests stuck in the same situation just applied to the opposite end of the scale, "there is no god 100 fact" "there is a god 100 fact"


its the same mindset just at the opposite end of the scale.

peace