Atheists

Lemming3k said:
Have you been there? How do you know its not just gods big eternal lovefest and only the incredably sexy get into heaven? :p

I just have one question: What does a muslim woman get in heaven, 72 eunuchs to wait on her hand and foot without any sex? ;)
 
I just have one question: What does a muslim woman get in heaven, 72 eunuchs to wait on her hand and foot without any sex?
Women in heaven? It'll never catch on... unless they're one of the 72 virgins.... ;)
 
(Q) said:
Is the PC invisible to the cat?

Nope. But it does things it cannot comprehend.

Do you know how your PC works?

Not every little detail. I don't have a need to at the moment.

If the physical realm is all that exists, and nothing appears to evidently suggest otherwise, why would we limit ourselves in not attempting to discover everything? It might be a leap for the mind of the theist, but certainly not for the mind of a scientist.

I never advocated that we should limit what we try to discover. We should discover all we can.

But apparently it is too much of a leap for some people to realize that there may be truths that we cannot reach or facets of reality that we cannot know.

Incidentally, theist and scientist are not mutually exclusive terms.
 
Lerxst said:
But apparently it is too much of a leap for some people to realize that there may be truths that we cannot reach or facets of reality that we cannot know.

More of a stretch than a leap. Yes, it's nice to fantasize about such things, but hardly worth taking seriously.

Incidentally, theist and scientist are not mutually exclusive terms.

That is something only a theist would state.

theist: One who believes in the existence of a god or gods.

scientist: A person with advanced knowledge of one of more sciences.

Nope, I don't see it. They look pretty darn exclusive to me.
 
Yet some scientists do believe in god. It's more of an emotional thing. And a clear case of dichotomous thinking.
 
(Q) said:
That is something only a theist would state.

theist: One who believes in the existence of a god or gods.

scientist: A person with advanced knowledge of one of more sciences.

Nope, I don't see it. They look pretty darn exclusive to me.

LOL! I guess Freeman Dyson cannot be a real physicist then. I guess Kenneth Miller isn't an evolutionary biologist after all.

Next time I referee a paper and I find it well-reasoned, logical, and lucid, I guess I'll have to conclude "My! The authors must all be atheists!"

In fact perhaps I should just tell the editor not to send me any submissions from authors that have any theistic notions. They cannot possibly do research or write anything but irrational trash. Perhaps we should just make that a kind of litmus test for tenure too, eh?

Risible.
 
superluminal said:
Yet some scientists do believe in god. It's more of an emotional thing. And a clear case of dichotomous thinking.

We are dichotomous beings, so it is understandable.
 
(Q) said:
More of a stretch than a leap. Yes, it's nice to fantasize about such things, but hardly worth taking seriously.

When examined in the context of their proper majesteria (namely, philosophy) such notions warrant consideration.
 
Lerxst said:
We are dichotomous beings, so it is understandable.

Yes, it is to a degree. I find the degree to which the god dichotomy exerts itself to be disturbing though.
 
I think Q's point was that one's beliefs and one's occupation aren't correlative in any way, so by virtue of their independence they are discrete, inferentially... he didn't mean to slur you as being a theist, of course; so your "counter-sarcasm" what with Dyson and Miller is probably well received. =) No true Scotsman be darned.

...

Two Scotsmen are in a pub.

"Did you know that in Romania, if two friends meet in a pub, one of them buys the other a drink?"

"I had no idea. Let's do that!"

"Alright. I'll be 'the other one'."
 
superluminal said:
Yes, it is to a degree. I find the degree to which the god dichotomy exerts itself to be disturbing though.
It will be quite interesting to Observe U bite these GOD fearing people here.

I liked your previous Avatar better, U should find a more Viciuos Avatar.
 
qwerty mob said:
I think Q's point was that one's beliefs and one's occupation aren't correlative in any way, so by virtue of their independence they are discrete, inferentially... he didn't mean to slur you as being a theist, of course; so your "counter-sarcasm" what with Dyson and Miller is probably well received. =) No true Scotsman be darned.

First, I will say that as I go back and re-read that post, it is a bit too sarcastic. I apologize to all. I try to avoid that tone in my posts in general.

I didn't take it as a slur of my being a theist.

I agree that the one's beliefs and occupation are not correlative. And that is precisely the point. I know trained scientists that hold some degree of religious ideas. I know them personally, I have read their work. And I know for a fact that they are just as capable of understanding science, getting degreed, writing grants, finding grad students, conducting research, interpreting and analyzing data, writing papers, getting published, and getting tenure.

Granted, that to do this, they have to partition off the religious side of their brain. And many do just that.

And granted, others cannot seem to do this, so we end up with monstrosities such as Dr. Gish or Dr. Ross or Dr. Behe or the folks at the Institute for Creation Science. I do not regard these people as scientists, because the work that they do isn't science. They are no better than table-tapping paranomalists, as far as I am concerned.

Every piece of scientific writing is judged on the merits of it's science, accuracy, clarity, and completeness. Not on the personal life of the author. We don't need to know the personal convictions of the creationsists because their "scientific" ideas are obviously so far out of whack, they exempt themselves automatically. We judge them, too, on the basis of what their papers say, not what their religious beliefs are.

As it should be.
 
november said:
I was an atheist 2 years ago; that's just a fact.
no it's not.
november said:
geeser said:
I've never met one, really. By that I mean people I have known to be real atheists with a coherent set of beliefs who later swallow the Christian message.
Whoa whoa whoa, back up. The "Christian" message?
well any religion really,
november said:
What do you want me to say? I'm not a Christian, or a believer in any organized religion for that matter. If you don't believe me, that's really your problem.
no quite the contrary, it's your problem if you want to be taken seriously.
november said:
your point?!
you being taken seriously.
november said:
I might add, that doesn't involve Christianity?!
does'nt matter, you dont go from the rational to the irrational.
november said:
If you could simply understand your own ignorance, you'd be embarrassed with your hypothesis.
my ignorance is not in question yours is.
if you truly understood atheism you'ld know how laughable it is to say, you could convert to a religion, or any belief in the supernatural or a god.
november said:
So, should I "hide" the fact that I was an atheist for fear it might sound too conspiratorial? No...
no keep it quiet, so you dont appear foolish.
november said:
You can sit there and whine, pout, call me a wolf in sheeps clothing, but it's irrelevant to the only person that matters, and that's me. I know I was an atheist, infact, I still have my yahoo account "atheist4god@yahoo.ca" up and running.
well bully for you, still does'nt mean you were an atheist, though.
november said:
I can see this debate going nowhere, fast; so just know you're wrong, and that's all there is to it.
well I'm not wrong, but if you want to continue to look foolish go ahead.
november said:
You're obsessed with Christianity, I can tell.
no but religion itself is the most evil of institutions concieved by man.
november said:
I'm not gonna hold back because you don't like it.
no dont do it for that reason, do it for your own self respect.
 
geeser said:
I know lots of atheists. They stay atheist.

What about Antony Flew? Famous atheist, wrote lots of books, was highly respected, and is now NOT an atheist.

Correction: Antony not Anthony.
 
Woody said:
I have -- they are in church now where you won't see them anymore.
they might have gone to church before they became atheists but most certainly not after.( not strictly true thay could have gone for a visit wedding or funeral.)
Woody said:
I know one that has been both a deacon and an elder. I asked him about his conversion. He said he was in denial about God -- that's why he was an atheist for so long. He's a brilliant man, a nuclear reactor engineering manager for an electric utility.
he could have been a non-believer, an agnostic, but never a coherent atheist, just not possible.
 
Lerxst said:
What about Antony Flew? Famous atheist, wrote lots of books, was highly respected, and is now NOT an atheist.

Correction: Antony not Anthony.
do you mean the Flew who said this "Sorry to Disappoint, but I'm Still an Atheist! (2001)"


The fact of the matter is: Flew hasn't really decided what to believe. He affirms that he is not a Christian--he is still quite certain that the Gods of Christianity or Islam do not exist, that there is no revealed religion, and definitely no afterlife of any kind (he stands by everything he argued in his 2001 book
but he does seem to have a mild belief in a prime mover an impersonal first clause, It might not even be conscious, but a mere force.

well so did einstein.

http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=369
 
geeser said:
do you mean the Flew who said this "Sorry to Disappoint, but I'm Still an Atheist! (2001)"


The fact of the matter is: Flew hasn't really decided what to believe. He affirms that he is not a Christian--he is still quite certain that the Gods of Christianity or Islam do not exist, that there is no revealed religion, and definitely no afterlife of any kind (he stands by everything he argued in his 2001 book
but he does seem to have a mild belief in a prime mover an impersonal first clause, It might not even be conscious, but a mere force.

well so did einstein.

http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=369

Yeah, I agree that Flew is no Christian. But he went from being an atheist to a sort of agnostic/deist/pantheist. From the latest I had read on infidels.org he has been a bit hard to nail down in terms of what he really believes. But he certainly seems to have taken a step away from atheism.
 
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