So, basically, it's natural that some people enslave others; and it is also natural for some other people to have empathy with the enslaved and consider slavery to be wrong.
It's also natural that there are contradictions.
Yes?
So slavery is wrong because some people have empathy.
So slavery is wrong because some people think it is wrong.
I myself cannot think of an argument from an atheist/naturalist perspective that would show why slavery is wrong.
In fact, notions of "right" and "wrong" are meaningless unless there is a higher instance who has the power to declare what is right and what is wrong, and who has the power to sanction all transgressions.
From an atheist/naturalist perspective, what does it matter what an enslaved person thinks?
From that perspective, we are basically bio-mechanical blobs, conscience is an epiphenomenon, and all things happen due to evolution, a blind process that is not guided or sanctioned by any higher intelligence.
So from that perspective, what do the feelings of an enslaved person matter? And what do the feelings of observers matter?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
That simply demonstrates that evolution does not ensure that all are awarded the same intellectual capacity for logical thinking. Your inability to conceive of something wholly commensurate with evolutionary theory is a reflection on yourself, not on the theory, or the evidence for the importance of cooperation and empathy in the success of homo sapiens.
from a theist/god perspective, what does it matter what an enslaved person thinks? and to whom?
first, let me point out your argument is stupid. if the enslaved were merely inanimate without the ability to feel or think, then your argument would have some credence. what an enslaved person thinks is important to them.
i didn't ask you what the enslaver thinks or feels, i asked you what you would think or feel if you were enslave which you evaded.
atheist and naturalist are not exactly the same since naturalism doesn't deal with issues of morality and naturalism also has some issues being defined. again, you assume atheism means devoid of morality.
your argument is further stupid because whether a higher being exists or not has no bearing on whether something is deemed unethical. there is no more credibility for a religion or god to deem something uethical because it says so than a person does without reason or justification.
slavery is considered "wrong" as in unethical or immoral because it violates the rights of others life and they value their life as much as ours.
you are absurdly looking for a concrete explanation as in 'since nature allows it, it must be okay'. it happens and ocurs but that is a different context than morality or ethics.
"All humans have equal rights."
Says you.
:shrug:
That doesn't make sense.
Then it bears the question: Why separate the contexts like that?
States who or what and sanctions who or what?
are you insane? what does it matter what you think or feel? or that something does or doesn't make sense to you? what is motivating you to ask these questions? so what you think and feel is all that matters, eh?
what does it matter if you take your next breath? or that you will probably eat today when you get hungry. so you expect me to believe that you just allow anything to happen to you? and if something does happen to you, it's justified to you just because it happened? i don't believe that for a second.
since you think nothing matters and everything can be retorted with 'why does it matter?' to you, don't look both ways when you cross the road. also, if someone breaks into your house and steals your shit, don't call the police either. also, when you get sick, don't take your ass to the hospital.
as a matter of fact, stop what you are doing and jam your foot as hard as possible on the hardest object you can find and then ask yourself why that hurt, okay? ponder it and if you come up with no explanation here to even care, keep doing it but i bet your hypocritical ass won't!
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Which is why I am glad that some people do find religion. If you don't know the difference between right and wrong, then you are one of those that needs fear of eternal judgement.
Seriously, do you not have a conscience?
What "higher power" thinks that slavery is wrong?
It appears that by "conscience", several people here mean 'to not think one's premises through to their logical conclusions; to stop reasoning at a certain intuitively determined point'.
birch,
Atheists always bring up "god allow/condones slavery" therefore god is evil.
I wish to know what is actually wrong with slavery from their perspective.
Then don't use it as an argument, because it is baseless.
I'm not concerned with that in this instant.
I'm not interested in what atheists personally think about slavery. I'm quite sure they would not like to be brutally enslaved, and most probably do not condone slavery. But like prostitution, slavery is part of humanity, that is clear. So in this light, is it right or wrong?
jan.
Atheists always bring up "god allow/condones slavery" therefore god is evil.
I wish to know what is actually wrong with slavery from their perspective.
Then don't use it as an argument, because it is baseless.
I'm not concerned with that in this instant.
I'm not interested in what atheists personally think about slavery. I'm quite sure they would not like to be brutally enslaved, and most probably do not condone slavery. But like prostitution, slavery is part of humanity, that is clear. So in this light, is it right or wrong?
jan.
Which is more apparent as a part of nature, empathy or slavery?
I have a conscience. Why would you think otherwise?
jan.
no, you are being inane. the reason for a conscience is the same reason you employ everyday to take care of yourself and your safety to avoid harm and hurt. you just can't or refuse to extend that to others.
lol. i can hardly imagine someone tying you up and beating the living crap out of you with your response being "to not think one's premises through to their logical conclusion; to stop reasoning at a certain intuitively determined point' when it's your ass on the line. you would be begging for mercy, but in your case you may deserve none. you hypocrite.
This is the problem with atheist philosophy, the goal-post are always being shifted to suit the moment.
There are no moral absolutes, but there are some exceptions to suit their ever-changing philosophical position.
jan.