Atheists: Get A Life!!!!!

[swivel]

I'm with JDawg and the atheists on this one. The "Under God" crap was added to the pledge in 1954 and it should be found unconstitutional. Same goes for adding "God" to our money, that was done at the height of fear on the part of Democrats for being seen as Commies. It was bullshit then and Christians should be ashamed of themselves for supporting it now. It violates the separation of Church and State and it needs to go.

I am a Conservative, but I will continue voting straight-ticket Democrat until the Republicans are no longer being run by crazy religious people that get excited when they think about the "end times". This would be an incredible sacrifice if I thought the Democrats would jeopardize our country with the fiscal idiocy that FDR displayed, but it works out pretty nice since Republicans haven't been nearly as Conservative as Democrats lately.

The Republican party is doomed if it is going to cling to Dark Age reasoning, preventing the world from moving forward in our ethical progress. As soon as they right the ship and I see the jetsom of theists bobbing in their wake, I will get back onboard. And I am not alone. Millions of people are leaving the Red party because the religious bullshit is turning off a new generation of free-thinkers.

 

[(Q)]

My question is, if you don't believe in God, why are you so offended by the word?

It is the underlying cults that are offensive, not the word itself.

Seriously, if someone sneezes and someone else says "God Bless You", they're just being polite. It's completely harmless whether you believe in God or not. If a town wants to put up a nativity scene, what's the big, fucking deal? This country is 90% Christian for fucks sake. Live and let live. How does someone else's superstition affect you in any way? How are you harmed if some people utter the words "under God". How are you harmed by a Nativity scene?

When the underlying cults affect my life in a great many ways with their superstitions, it is highly offensive.

I work with a bunch of Christians and one Muslim. I gave everyone a Christmas present including her (the Muslim, it hardly seemed fair to stiff her). Far from being offended, she gave me a Christmas present in return. Does this mean she's renouncing her faith?

Giving gifts at Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity.

Live and let live. Stop the jihad. Get a life.

Atheist's have lives, which are continuously disrupted by theists injecting their Bronze age myths and superstitions into it.

 

[madanthonywayne]

The "Under God" crap was added to the pledge in 1954 and it should be found unconstitutional. Same goes for adding "God" to our money, that was done at the height of fear on the part of Democrats for being seen as Commies. It was bullshit then and Christians should be ashamed of themselves for supporting it now. It violates the separation of Church and State and it needs to go.

Regardless of the reason for inserting "under God", it's there and people are used to it. And I don't buy any argument that claims mentioning God violates seperation of church and state. Ever read the declaration of Independence? It says right there that mankind is endowed with certain inalienable rights by his creator. Shall we next declare the declaration of independence unconstitutional? What about the tradition of opening congress with a prayer? The founding fathers clearly did not intend to ban any reference to God under the first amendment. Fuck, the pilgrims came here specifically to be free to practice their religion. You can be damned sure they'd not approve of banning the word God from public discourse. The same goes for the founding fathers.

That's an intellectually dishonest argument, dude, and you know it. You're making it sound as if religion is this benign entity that doesn't have influence on anything around it. Unfortunately, we both know the truth is different. When evolution was being introduced into schools, the fundie fuckheads fought it tooth and nail. You know how many court cases Christian groups have brought against the school boards?

Historically, it has been the religious who have brought action against the non-religious. They're the ones who have had their way with government (ever notice that religious institutions are tax-exempt? Ever been given a good reason for it?) and when someone introduces something new that might not jive with their faith, they take it up with the courts. It's only recently that the non-religious have decided to fight back by trying to build a country where their children don't have to be indoctrinated.

Look, if the "theists" are trying to impose religion on a science class, I'll be right there with you opposing them. But the solution to ridiculous lawsuits on one side is not ridiculous lawsuits on the other! Again, the exact wording of the pledge is a trivial issue, so are nativity scenes. How is an atheist harmed by someone saying "God"? Is it like the movie It's a Wonderful Life, but instead of an angel getting its wings when a bell rings, an atheist gets punched in the face whenever someone utters the word God?

 

[spidergoat]

The Declaration of Independence is literally unconstitutional and unbinding. I'm getting really sick of our country's need to pay homage to the fantasy of a God that cares about our well being. It's infantile and superstitious. Politically, it's wise to pacify the weak minded theists among us, but I don't have to like it.

 

[swivel]

Regardless of the reason for inserting "under God", it's there and people are used to it. And I don't buy any argument that claims mentioning God violates seperation of church and state. Ever read the declaration of Independence? It says right there that mankind is endowed with certain inalienable rights by his creator. Shall we next declare the declaration of independence unconstitutional? What about the tradition of opening congress with a prayer? The founding fathers clearly did not intend to ban any reference to God under the first amendment. Fuck, the pilgrims came here specifically to be free to practice their religion. You can be damned sure they'd not approve of banning the word God from public discourse. The same goes for the founding fathers.

The Declaration of Independence was a letter written by a lawless group of revolutionaries. It does not have anything to do with the United States of America.

There is a reason that our Constitution only mentions religion with fear.

And you are wrong. It DOES matter why and when those words are there. There were inserted at the height of a witch-hunt by the extreme Right. It is like waving a confession around that was extracted under duress.

Christians should be ashamed of forcing their cult down the throat of free peoples. The Republican party needs to eject these fanatics and return to the party of Conservatism and Liberty.

 

[wsionynw]

The way I see it if you're going to say something like "So help me God" or "God bless America" then aren't you saying that atheists are somehow not included in what is best for America?

It wouldn''t go down very well here in the UK, just look at the kicking Tony Blair got when he made statements about his faith in the context of making political decisions.

 

[madanthonywayne]

The Declaration of Independence was a letter written by a lawless group of revolutionaries. It does not have anything to do with the United States of America.

The Declaration of Independence is the founding document of our nation written by the same bunch of rabble rousers who wrote the constitution.

There is a reason that our Constitution only mentions religion with fear.

That's bullshit.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

Is that fear? It simply says there can be no official "Church of America" as there is a "Church of England", but notice it also says there should be no law abridging the free practice of religion. Is that fearful? Of course not. The fear was of government oppressing the people and not allowing them to worship as they desired, not a fear of religion at all.

Furthermore, this whole idea of a wall seperating church and state comes from a letter written by (guess who?) the same guy who wrote the Declaration of independence.

Christians should be ashamed of forcing their cult down the throat of free peoples. The Republican party needs to eject these fanatics and return to the party of Conservatism and Liberty.

I'm no more ashamed of that than I am of the inquisition or slavery. It all happened before I was born. Why in the hell should I feel any responsibilit for it?

Again, atheists need to get a life and quit worrying about someone saying a word they don't like. A word, that in their mind, signifies nothing.

The way I see it if you're going to say something like "So help me God" or "God bless America" then aren't you saying that atheists are somehow not included in what is best for America?

I don't see how that follows at all. If someone believes in God, of course they'd want his blessing upon their nation. If not, it's just an empty phrase signifying nothing

It wouldn''t go down very well here in the UK, just look at the kicking Tony Blair got when he made statements about his faith in the context of making political decisions.

The US isn't the UK. We were founded by a bunch of religious fanatics who were pretty much kicked out of the UK for being such and have remained more religious to this day.

 

[LadyMidnight]

Agreed. I'm not a believer, but I see no problem with the word "God" being used in Obama's inauguration speech, the pledge of allegiance, or anywhere else. Nor do I have a problem with nativity scenes - I think they're pretty cute. This is America and people should be free to voice their beliefs as long as they aren't discriminating against other faiths, or pushing their beliefs on others.

 

[SkinWalker]

I hear atheists are pushing for Obama to not use the word "God" in his inauguration. And we're always hearing about atheists filing lawsuits so people are bared from uttering the words "under God" in the pledge. Then there's Christmas trees, nativity scenes on on town square, whatever. My question is, if you don't believe in God, why are you so offended by the word?

I don't think anyone is offended by the word god any more than they are easter bunny or tooth fairy. We just don't want state sponsorship of an easter bunny or tooth fair or even a god -whichever your god may be.

Moreover, many atheists see state recognition of a specific god as un-American since the nation was clearly founded on religious freedom and designed specifically to prevent the imposition of a state religion.

I don't think I've seen any atheists who are demanding that Obama not mention a god in his speech, but they probably exist. I have, however, been witness to and participant of several movements to protest state sponsorship of religion and to have the non-believer voice heard.

And you know what? We've been heard. In his inaugural speech, Obama included "non-believers" in the description of diversity that makes up this great nation -along with Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. He said, "... and non-believers," with a certain bit of emphasis.

I was disappointed to see Rick Warren go on and on with his superstitious moment -I see no need for such silliness at a Presidential Inauguration. But I was pleasantly surprised to see that Aretha Franklin had more applause and, dare I say, R.E.S.P.E.C.T. than Warren. Still, Warren gave me opportunity to get up and go take a shit -I returned just as he finished.

'Under god' has no place in the Pledge. Such exclusionary verbiage is un-American. It demands that non-Christians acknowledge a state-sponsored superstition.

'In god we trust' has no place on coinage. e pluribus unum makes far more sense and is inclusive rather than exclusive -thus American rather than un-American.

Nativity scenes have no place on town squares or any tax-payer funded or public property. The superstitious have thousands of square acres of church property to put such superstitious nonsense. Moreover, allowing nativity scenes is yet another un-American and exclusionary symbol.

Seriously, if someone sneezes and someone else says "God Bless You", they're just being polite.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with all sorts of quaint superstition that I've encountered in my worldly travels. Saying "bless you" after a sneeze is ridiculous and clearly superstitious -but if it makes you feel better (for whatever reason), feel free.

If a town wants to put up a nativity scene, what's the big, fucking deal? This country is 90% Christian for fucks sake. Live and let live.

Whether the nation is 70% or 90% Christian (there are numbers to support either contention) has no bearing on what's just and correct. It is wrong for the government or government bodies to favor any one religious superstition over another. Christmas is a perfectly nice, secular holiday. Why ruin it with religious bullshit? Sure, it used to be about a religious superstition -so did Halloween and Valentine's Day. Now, its about family and fellowship, giving and charity. Fuck the god shit. That superstitious nonsense is a thing of the past.

How does someone else's superstition affect you in any way? How are you harmed if some people utter the words "under God". How are you harmed by a Nativity scene?

As long as the government doesn't require that any one utter "under god," "under Zeus," or "under quetzacoatl," there's no problem. If Obama wants to take his office by saying "so help me god" or even "so help me Apollo," I have zero problem with it. I find it quaint and silly, but realize that for many people its more of a cultural and ceremonial practice than a real desire to appease any deity.

But, yes, I feel harmed by nativity scenes. They're ugly and unappealing (most of them) in a holiday season where everything else is color coordinated, shiny and cool. Snowflakes, holly, trees, colorful balls and bulbs, reindeer, santas, snowmen -those are all the icons of Christmas. The quaint abused baby lying exposed in the unhygienic troth filled with hay in the unmucked stable of livestock is just fucking weird.

Stop the jihad. Get a life.

The culture war exists in the superstitious minds of the religious. Rationalists are only seeking to keep government from recognizing one religious superstition over another or elevating superstitious belief over rational thought. If the superstitious want to be superstitious -they have every right to be. They just don't get to force their silly superstitions on everyone else.

 

[madanthonywayne]

Moreover, many atheists see state recognition of a specific god as un-American since the nation was clearly founded on religious freedom and designed specifically to prevent the imposition of a state religion.

Saying "in God we trust" or "one nation, under God" in no way represents the establishment of a religion. To say it does is absurd.

I don't think I've seen any atheists who are demanding that Obama not mention a god in his speech, but they probably exist. I have, however, been witness to and participant of several movements to protest state sponsorship of religion and to have the non-believer voice heard.

Well, for one thing there's this lawsuit:

One of the people watching that 2001 ceremony was California atheist Michael Newdow, best known for his lawsuits challenging the "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. In 2005, Newdow filed a lawsuit to enjoin clergy from participating in Bush's second inaugural: "The effect of the [clergy's] purely religious words was for Christian Americans to perceive them as an endorsement of their Christianity, and for non-Christian Americans including plaintiff to perceive the Pledge [sic] as a disapproval of their non-Christianity."

That suit was dimissed by a federal judge, who said that inaugural prayers in the name of Jesus or any other deity don't indicate that the government is "exploiting" the prayer to "proselytize" a particular faith or creed. Not to be denied, Newdow is back again this year. He and other atheists have asked another federal judge to enjoin Warren and other clergy from participating in Obama's ceremony. A hearing is scheduled for Thursday. http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2009/01/inauguration_prayers_of_god_or.html

And you know what? We've been heard. In his inaugural speech, Obama included "non-believers" in the description of diversity that makes up this great nation -along with Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. He said, "... and non-believers," with a certain bit of emphasis.

And you know what? That's fine. I'm not trying to banish all atheists. I couldn't care less what you believe. I'm just saying LIVE AND LET LIVE, STOP TRYING TO IMPOSE YOUR ATHEISM UPON THE REST OF US.

I was disappointed to see Rick Warren go on and on with his superstitious moment - Still, Warren gave me opportunity to get up and go take a shit -I returned just as he finished.

You see, even atheists can benefit from religious speech.

'Under god' has no place in the Pledge. Such exclusionary verbiage is un-American. It demands that non-Christians acknowledge a state-sponsored superstition.

Grow up. It's not exclusive at all. If you're a non-believer consider it filler. Again, get a life.

'In god we trust' has no place on coinage. e pluribus unum makes far more sense and is inclusive rather than exclusive -thus American rather than un-American.

See above.

Nativity scenes have no place on town squares or any tax-payer funded or public property. The superstitious have thousands of square acres of church property to put such superstitious nonsense. Moreover, allowing nativity scenes is yet another un-American and exclusionary symbol.

Bunk. If the Muslims, Jews, or even atheists want to put up their own decorations as well, fine. But stop shitting on the majority.

But, yes, I feel harmed by nativity scenes. They're ugly and unappealing (most of them) in a holiday season where everything else is color coordinated, shiny and cool. Snowflakes, holly, trees, colorful balls and bulbs, reindeer, santas, snowmen -those are all the icons of Christmas. The quaint abused baby lying exposed in the unhygienic troth filled with hay in the unmucked stable of livestock is just fucking weird.

You're no more harmed by nativity scenes than I am by bullshit "save the earth" crap. Have some tolerance for the beliefs of others.

The culture war exists in the superstitious minds of the religious. Rationalists are only seeking to keep government from recognizing one religious superstition over another or elevating superstitious belief over rational thought. If the superstitious want to be superstitious -they have every right to be. They just don't get to force their silly superstitions on everyone else.

Agreed, and vise-versa.

 

[Cris]

mad,

I work with a bunch of Christians and one Muslim. I gave everyone a Christmas present including her (the Muslim, it hardly seemed fair to stiff her). Far from being offended, she gave me a Christmas present in return. Does this mean she's renouncing her faith? Of course not. We're just two people who, despite having different beliefs, respect each other and can behave like adults.

Great to see you are in support of ancient pagan festivities. Exchanging gifts at the winter solstice period is a pagan tradition and has nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[wizard]

Saying "in God we trust" or "one nation, under God" in no way represents the establishment of a religion.

it represents the establishment of religions with one god

And you know what? That's fine. I'm not trying to banish all atheists. I couldn't care less what you believe. I'm just saying LIVE AND LET LIVE, STOP TRYING TO IMPOSE YOUR ATHEISM UPON THE REST OF US.

i wouldn't mind if you all kept your beliefs to yourself, but theists don't. their brainwashing gets a little annoying

it's hard to ignore the beliefs of theists when their actions, which are influenced by their beliefs, affect us.

 

[Cris]

I wonder if we should stop saying "good bye"? It's from the original "God be with you".

On another note - my 3 year old grand niece said in front of her non-religious parents at something surprising - "oh my god". She must have heard it at pre-school. She has no idea what it means.

In countries that have allowed enormous infusion of religious concepts it is inevitable that religious terms will fuse into the language and customs, and will become largely disconected from their original meanings.

As for "under God" and "in God we trust" on our money; I guess I am more irritated at the innacuracy of the phrases. Both assume a consensus when there are many who do not believe or do not agree. Both terms becomes lies endorsed by government support. That in my mind makes a mockery of the government, but then they have many other worse attributes.

 

[madanthonywayne]

i
it's hard to ignore the beliefs of theists when their actions, which are influenced by their beliefs, affect us.

Sorry, but that applies to atheists as well. Everyone's actions are influenced by their beliefs. So what? I'm just asking for a bit of tolerance. Live and let live.

 

[wizard]

and nobody should brainwash others to believe what they believe

also, atheism and religion are not equivalent. nothing bad comes out of not believing, but shit happens because of religion

 

[spidergoat]

At least Obama mentioned the unbelievers that make this country great too. There is no cause to complain about atheists when religions always shove their beliefs in our face and call it piety.

 

[PieAreSquared]

Exchanging gifts at the winter solstice period is a pagan tradition and has nothing to do with Christianity.


Nice way to get them on board. Re-invent JC b-day.but why not they seemed to have reinvented a number of things.
The vatican itself is built onto of a ancient pagan site

 

[madanthonywayne]

and nobody should brainwash others to believe what they believe

also, atheism and religion are not equivalent. nothing bad comes out of not believing, but shit happens because of religion

The arrogance of that statement is beyond belief. Of course, nothing bad can come from your beliefs. It's the other guys beliefs that are the problem! Absurd. Every belief system has its plusses and minuses. If religion had nothing to offer but "bad shit", the majority of the world's population wouldn't be religious, would they?

 

[PieAreSquared]

excuse me for a moment while i whip my slaves who are building my temple to Darwin

 

[madanthonywayne]

excuse me for a moment while i whip my slaves who are building my temple to Darwin

How about Lenin? Or Mao?