Atheist..Please stand up

"** Is Hell better than nothing.......hmmm "

Well, if we could choose whether an afterlife exists or not, that would be something. But the thing is we can not. It either exists or it doesn't
 
Re: Lady

Originally posted by Crunchy Cat
"My current understanding
of human existance suggests that when we die, *poof* end
of conciousness."

** Is Hell better than nothing.......hmmm

No better than little green men on mars... why are you so
confident that your loving 'God' has set up a place of eternal
torture? Imagine, if you will, someone who dedicates his life
to saving lives, helping the sick heal, etc... If this person does
not believe in 'God' simply because he has not seen any proof
of its existance then he will be tortured for an eterenity? But
of course! It's natural selection of the Heavens! Those who
accpept with proof go to Heaven. Those who accept without
proof go to Heaven. Those who don't accept without proof go
straight to Hell. The end result? Love.
Click to expand...

This is the problem of our society, IGNORANT PEEPS MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS. Crunchy, you dont understand the judgment of God. Wy dont you read the bible more and learn.

Jesus is the virtue, he is the WORD INCARNATE, Jesus said "My WORDS are spirit and life". ACCEPTING CHRIST MEANS ACCEPTING THE VIRTUE HE TEACHES, accepting Jesus means you accept all the virtues with him, such as to be humble, to be patient, to be forgiving, chastity, to be kind, to be respectfull, to be generous, even to the point of selling all you have to save one life (the 7 beatitudes).. Rejecting Christ means rejecting love, being a pervert, to be greedy, to be unforgiving, etc. WHETHER YOU OPENLY BELIEVE OF GOD OR NOT, IF YOU LIVE BY THIS VIRTUES, YOU ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST KNOWINGLY AND UNKNOWINGLY. When Jesus was on earth, the man with the greatest faith he saw wasnt even a jew or a believer of God, BUT WAS A ROMAN WHICH AT THE TIME WERE ENEMIES OF JEWS AND ARE PAGANS, but his humility and kindness was surpassing that virtues of any jews he saw.

It is like the parable about a master and his 2 servants, the master asked one servant and said "Will you go work with me?" then the servant said "No, i will not go with you", but later on he went. Meanwhile the master asked another servant, "Hey you, will you go with me and work for me?" then the servant said "Yes, I will go with you", but later on didnt go. Jesus then asked the apostle, ""Who will God favor more?" then apostles responded "The man who denied the master but went and work for him" Jesus then said "Truly I say unto you, prostitutes, tax collectors, and sinners are enetring the kingdom of God before them (pharisees, the so-called religious who openly says they love God but doesnt lift a finger tohelp their dying neighbors"".

At the end we are judged by our works, not by our faith, for faith is only a stepping stool for works, faith without works is dead.

At the end many will say "Lord Lord, let me enter the kingdom for I cast out evil in your name", Jesus then said to them "Depart from me you evil doers!! Hungry u didnt feed me, naked u didnt clothe me, lonely u didnt visit me", then they said "But Lord since when did we ever see u naked or hungry or lonely?" Jesus replied "Whatever u do to the least of my brothers u do unto me". GOD ISNT GOING TO JUDGE YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR FAITH, BUT HE IS GOING TO JUDGE YOU BY YOUR LOVE AND GOOD WORKS...THOUGH THIS IS ONLY POSSIBLE WITH THE GRACE OF GOD (AFTER ALL FROM THE BEGGINING, ALL VIRTUES COMES FROM GOD, FROM THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, TO PROPER LAWS OF GOVERNING, JUDEA CHRISTIAN, THE SECOND OLDEST PRACTICED RELIGION, FIRST ONE THE HINDUISM WHICH HAVE NONE OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

CRUNCHY CAT, DONT OPENLY SAY U ARE A BELIEVER OF GOD, JUST GO ON OUT THERE AND PROVE US WRONG, IF U CLAIM THAT U DONT HAVE TO BE A BELIEVER OF GOD TO BE A GOOD PERSON, THEN GO AHEAD AND TRY NOT TO BE A PERVERT, TRY TO BE KIND, BE GENEROUS, BE LOVING, BE PATIENT, BE THOUGHTFULL OF OTHERS, GIVING UP EVERY PENNY U HAVE TO SAVE ONE PERSONS LIFE BECAUSE U ARE THOUGHTFULL OF OTHERS, AND BE FORGIVING TO OTHERS WHO DID YOU WRONG, IF YOU CAN, DO IT.....


NOW IF YOU CAN'T (WHICH I REALLY DOUBT), THEN THATS WHERE PRAYERS COME IN, THAT WE PRAY TO GOD THROUGH THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST THAT HE WILL SEND US HIS SPIRIT AND GRACE TO HELP US DO GOOD AND FOLOW THE VIRTUES. PLAIN AND SIMPLE, THATS WHY PRAYERS IS VERY EFFECTIVE FOR WITHOUT PRAYERS, IT IS VERY UNLIKELY FOR MAN TO BE GOOD ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS SURROUNDED BY WOLVES AND JACKED UP PEOPLE.

Again, Hell wasnt made for us, it was made for the devil, but if you chose the devil, you go home with him which is hell. You choose God, then you go with God which is heaven...
 
JESUS SAID "I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE"....JESUS ALSO SAID "MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE" THE BOOK OF JOHN SAID "GOD IS SPIRIT" AND "JESUS IS THE WORD INCARNATE", DO YOU KNOW WHAT ALL THIS MEANS?

IT MEANS TO ACCEPT JESUS THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE, MEANS TO ACCEPT THE VIRTUES ALONG WITH HIM, which is love, kindness, HUMILITY, HONESTY, LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN, HONESTY AND NOT LYING, generousity, etc. WHETHER YOU ARE THE SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN OR A ROMAN PAGAN, OR A BUDDHIST, OR EVEN A SO-CALLED ATHEIST, IF YOU LIVE BY THIS VIRTUES, YOU ACCEPTED CHRIST.

TO REJECT CHRIST MEANS TO BE A PERVERT, TO BE GREEDY, TO BE SELF CENTERED, TO BE SELFFISH AND UNFORGIVING, WHETHER YOUR A SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN OR SO CALLED BUDDHIST OR ATHEIST, IF YOU LIVE BY THIS RULES, YOU REJECTED JESUS CHRIST.

BUT IF YOU CANNOT FOLLOW THE GOOD VIRTUES OF GOD AND HAVING A HARD TIME BEING LOVING AND FORGIVING (ATHEIST BE HONEST WITH ME, DONT EVEN SAY YOU ARE ALL THAT GOOD) THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD PRAY TO JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE FIRST MAN HISTORICALLY SPEAKING TO SPEAK OF LOVE AND FORGIVENESS AND TO DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WANT DONE UNTO YOU (HE IS THE ORIGINAL, EVEN THOUGH PPL WILL SAY "OHH THATS JUST COMMON SENSE" BUT THATS ONLY BECAUSE THEY HEARD IT BEFORE, IT IS JUST LIKE "OHH IT IS ONLY COMMON SENSE TO GIVE CPR TO A PERSON WHO DROWNED" BUT THATS ONLY COMMON SENSE IF YOU HEARD IT.)
 
I am an athiest

Honestly, I live my life by love and all things good. Temptation gets the best of me sometimes, but can you say it doesn't get the best of you? But those who know me know that I base all my decisions on good intentions and good will. I don't need fear of hell or a vengefull God to keep me in line. And I realize that when I do hurt someone, Jesus can't forgive me, only the person I hurt can. And sometimes you don't get forgiveness, so all you can do is learn from your mistake.
 
Thats true, How can you love God who you donot see and hate your neighbors who you do see. Thats written in the bible "forgive others and you will be forgiven". "Love one another as I have loved you." "Do unto others what you want done unto you".

IF THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IS SUMMARIZED, THEN IT WILL BE TO THIS, "THAT YOU LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF" BUT HOW DO YOU DO THESE? SIMPLE...

YOU LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL BY THANKING AND PRAISING HIM FOR THE VIRTUES HE GAVE US(Historically speaking, the virtues, such as to love, 10 commandments, etc. which historically speaking is off judea christian the second oldest practiced religion, hinduism being the first have none of these, A FACT.) AND YOU LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS BY LIVING THE VIRTUES YOU LEARNED FROM GOD (love, kindness, etc.).
 
Muscleman, if I may, I must commend you on your faith. As an athiest, when it comes down to it, I think you're probably wrong. But alot of athiests say only the weak believe in God... And that can't be true. You must be incredibly strong to stick to your beliefs against hordes of people trying to prove you wrong. Of course you must also be strong to admit when you are wrong. But these are two forms of strength at the oposing ends of the spectrum. I'd say you're at one end and I'm at the other. Either way, it is strength, and kudos to you!:)
 
A rock can dream. Don't you go oppressing rocks ....

I hope you didn't use the fact that people can't read YOUR writing as proof of that....
Click to expand...
No comment.
Rocks and stars don't have consciousness right?
Click to expand...
This is actually what I wanted to comment on.

Now, I know the quoted statement seems fairly evident, but ....

... Do we really know this to be true?

Stars sing. It's not much of a stretch for me to imagine that they enjoy singing. If they were not meant to sing, they would not sing.

As a side note, one of my favorite cartoons is a Bill Kliban one-framer which depicts a rock with a thought bubble containing a picture of a famous explorer standing ashore for the first time, planting his flag and resting his foot upon our lonely rock. I wish I had a jpeg for you.

Rocks can dream, can't they? ;)

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Lady,

<i>However, is there also another part of a human (Deep curosity) that attributes the properties and functions of science, which ever branch, to something?</i>

Of course. Scientists wonder what's behind it all just as much as everybody else. Religious people think they have the answer: God. Many scientists are also religious; science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

The non-religious scientists (including atheists) do not believe that God is the only possible explanation, though they may well keep God as one possible explanation. They do not believe there is good evidence for the existence of a God, so they keep looking.

My point is: a clear thinker cannot rule out the possible existence of God. But the same thinker cannot in good faith believe in things for which there is no evidence. Therefore, the clear thinker sits on the fence. He or she tries to use the scientific method to probe deeper into the universe's secrets, because that method is the best one we have found so far for getting at the truth.
 
James,
the clear thinker sits on the fence.
Click to expand...
A clear thinker does not sit on the fence. An indecisive person does. A clear thinker gathers all of his knowledge and makes a judgement as to what he/she currently believes. A clear thinker does this knowing they might very well be wrong. A clear thinker understands this is only a temporary 'truth', for through continuous learning one will always adapt and grow. A clear thinker makes a constant effort to re-evaluate his/her own ideals and beliefs and is never arrogant enough to pretend they own absolute truth and knowledge. A nitpicking for sure but I thought I'd give my thoughts...

Respectfully,
 
Originally posted by fadingCaptain
James,

A clear thinker does not sit on the fence. An indecisive person does. A clear thinker gathers all of his knowledge and makes a judgement as to what he/she currently believes. A clear thinker does this knowing they might very well be wrong. A clear thinker understands this is only a temporary 'truth', for through continuous learning one will always adapt and grow. A clear thinker makes a constant effort to re-evaluate his/her own ideals and beliefs and is never arrogant enough to pretend they own absolute truth and knowledge. A nitpicking for sure but I thought I'd give my thoughts...

Respectfully,
Click to expand...
Given the thread, consider god. A clear thinker can not assume there is no god, but should not accept there is one either. A clear thinker sits on the fence, reserves judgement. Accepting what you call a "temporary truth" is indulging in superstition, absolutely no different to blindly following church dogma.
 
Adam,
Nope that's not what I'm saying.

BTW, when I hear 'sit on the fence', I am assuming you mean no decision has been made one way or the other...

Unless you have reached a conclusion that there is an exact 50% percent chance for and against the possiblity of god, I see no reason to sit on the fence. Every decision is based probabilities, why is this one different?

As an example, if I believe with 85% confidence that life itself began from purely naturalistic origins, I will make a decision in favor of this viewpoint. Just because in my eyes there is a 15% chance I am wrong, doesn't mean I will simply say 'I don't know'. Of course, there is a chance I am wrong, and a clear thinker acknowledges that is prepared to change their opinion.

. Accepting what you call a "temporary truth" is indulging in superstition, absolutely no different to blindly following church dogma.
Click to expand...
The point I was making has nothing to do with the origins of the belief.

Thanks for indulging...
 
I can't put a number on the probability or improbability of a god existing. But I find it unlikely. Whether one exists or not, what difference will it make to me today? None. It doesn't matter. Sice I can't find further evidence either way, I am quite happy to leave it as an unknown and move on to other things.
 
muscles...

That chocolate gun of irony was meant for Lady... not you. Buuut
seeing as you went through so much effort to respond I can only
but return the favor. BTW, I am NOT a believer in God (you
seemed semi-confused about that).

My response is actually a question... what you are saying is that
anybody whom is not a pervert, is kind, is generous, is loving,
is patient, is thoughtful... etc. goes right to heaven whether
they believe in God or not? Just looking for a confirmation/denial.

-CC
 
yes, muscleman, I commend on your faith, as long as you don't go around annoying atheists the way some of them annoy you.
 
Re: muscles...

Originally posted by Crunchy Cat


My response is actually a question... what you are saying is that
anybody whom is not a pervert, is kind, is generous, is loving,
is patient, is thoughtful... etc. goes right to heaven whether
they believe in God or not? Just looking for a confirmation/denial.

-CC
Click to expand...

Yes, if you do all the virtues, generousity, patience, kindness, etc. you are going to- heaven whether you claim to be atheist or not. And in doing this virtues, you accepted christ for he is the word and virtues of life, whether you know it or didnt, whether u admit to it or didnt, whether your atheist or buddhist, you accepted all the virtues, you accepted Jesus who is the way the truth and the life. Simple, I am a teacher, and thats a christian doctrine. Jesus never discriminates, even the Pope today. Jesus accepted the Cannanites, the roman pagans, etc. because you are judged by your virtues, not by your faith for faith is only a stepping stool to doing good works. But then again if you are having a hard time being good and selling all your possesions to help save one life in africa (such are saints) maybe because you didnt pray enough and ask God to help you do good, theres very rare people who are this good and Im far from it, i need to pray alot myself.. :)
 
Originally posted by James R
Lady,

<i>However, is there also another part of a human (Deep curosity) that attributes the properties and functions of science, which ever branch, to something?</i>

Of course. Scientists wonder what's behind it all just as much as everybody else. Religious people think they have the answer: God. Many scientists are also religious; science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

The non-religious scientists (including atheists) do not believe that God is the only possible explanation, though they may well keep God as one possible explanation. They do not believe there is good evidence for the existence of a God, so they keep looking.

My point is: a clear thinker cannot rule out the possible existence of God. But the same thinker cannot in good faith believe in things for which there is no evidence. Therefore, the clear thinker sits on the fence. He or she tries to use the scientific method to probe deeper into the universe's secrets, because that method is the best one we have found so far for getting at the truth.
Click to expand...






** Were using a method for the natural and relying on it to validate God or the supernatural, nevertheless, the intangable is manifested. Futhermore, science is bound to change or modify upon revelations.Should science come to a stop due to fear?
 
Lady,

<i>** Were using a method for the natural and relying on it to validate God or the supernatural, nevertheless, the intangable is manifested. Futhermore, science is bound to change or modify upon revelations.Should science come to a stop due to fear?</i>

The problem with this is that not everybody agrees that the intangible is manifest. Similarly, not everybody agrees that revelations exist at all. So, it's not a matter of being afraid to face the truth; it's a dispute over what the truth is.
 
"IF YOU LIVE BY THIS VIRTUES, YOU ACCEPTED CHRIST."

I have to disagree. I don't think christ was as he was depicted in the bible: part of god. Yet I do believe in the moral values you talked about. Following morals simply make us FEEL good, and it is for no other reason that we follow them.

"JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE FIRST MAN HISTORICALLY SPEAKING TO SPEAK OF LOVE AND FORGIVENESS AND TO DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WANT DONE UNTO YOU "

That is inaccurate. Im quite sure jesus was not the first philosopher to speak of such items. There happened to not be much writing or recording back then. The only records that survived were ones that everybody heard about. Jesus simply got more publicity than any other philosopher.

""Love one another as I have loved you." "

Wasn't god the guy that killed everyone except noah's arc?

"Stars sing. It's not much of a stretch for me to imagine that they enjoy singing. If they were not meant to sing, they would not sing. "

"Rocks can dream, can't they? "

I think three words sum up my thinking right now: what the fuck?
I have never heard stars sing. Its a far stretch to think they enjoy anything since they do not posses a brain. Single cells are the same way, no brain, no gain.

Where did you get the idea that rocks dream?


"A clear thinker gathers all of his knowledge and makes a judgement as to what he/she currently believes."

I'd say that is a thinker that jumps to conclusions and leaves open ones behind.
 
jjhlk's thoughts

Silly theists...

1. & 2.
One theory, when the universe has no matter in it, it must be infinitely hot. (Boyle's law I think) At such a temperature matter and anti-matter would suddenly come into being; in fact, it would be the energy changing, but let's keep it obscure. Read "A Brief History of Space and Time" by Hawking.

Eventually, planets would form, conditions for sustaining life would be right, and luck would form what? Viruses, Bacteria, Archaea, somthing even simpler perhaps? It isn't hard to imagine how simple organisms could evolve to human's over time.

3.
You can't prove or even really disprove something so ridiculus [sic!] as God. The bible is so poorly written it pretty much shoots itself. It's been said that it disregards known facts since the time it's been written. Rewriting the bible seems like a silly idea, God wouldn't make a mistake now would he?

4.
Who has dismissed the existance of other life? It is probable considering the inhabitable universe may be infinitely huge. Though unlikely, earth could have been built by aliens, and life experiments could have taken place... It's nearly as a theory as God; well, not really considering that the existance of God is an infinitely stupid theory.

What with the speed limit on light, it is hard to imagine Humans going very far in even a huge amount of time.

5.
You can't remember something before you had the mechanisms for a memory. We are made from a complex series of process', there is no "live giving force", just the mechanisms to keep us running smoothly.

6.
Physics is quite complex a subject indeed. Mathmatics too.

7.
Silly. You can't create yourself if you haven't yet been created. The simplest logic...

8.
I know that I'll rot in the ground, except I'd rather be burnt; or even better, donated to science. My atoms will be used for other things no doubt. Apparantly it is likely to have atoms from lots of famous people inside of you... neat huh.

9.
Mystery? It's meiosis.

10.
I think though the lack of evidence it should become apparant.

11.
Quite simply, our technology has yet to keep up to the scientific theories to prove them. A theory is easy to postulate, an electron scanning microscope is anothing thing.

"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today." - Isaac Asimov

I recommend atheists get Isaac Asimov's book, "...Guide to the Bible..." Theists too. It's a well written book about what was happening in the bible. Nothing really philosophical, just who did what, who went where. Plus, it backs up stuff with historical facts. I don't mean what you think I'm meaning... Anyways, it's well written and easy to read.

Now I have to come up with ideas on how to avoid handing in some assignments tomarrow. My body has grown fatigued; wrote a 2.5 hour history test at 7:30, awoke at 5:30, and kept sane with caffeine. That sanity will shortly be gone.

[Edit: BTW I had no time to read pages of possibly heated or silly posts. ]
 
Hidden truth in escapist fiction

Ok, screw sleep... Just an interesting side-note.

Pop-culture: In Family Guy, Peter the protagonist (Alliteration no doubt) goes to church. They offer him the Blood of Christ, which he accepts of course - he is Catholic/Christian (I don't know what's what anymore). He drinks and explaims loudly, *"This is the blood of christ, that guy must have been wasted all day!"

What is interesting about it, is the whole issue of Josh being a mushroomer. And apparantly, if you eat shrooms a lot, your urine will also contain the alkaloid. So, could the Blood of Christ really be a metaphor for the "lifeblood" of Christ, and infact be his urine? Hmmm...

* I'll have to paraphrase, don't quote me..
 
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