Atheist expects oblivion; Envies believers

Michael 345,

my point is that religion will never change anything because only we can do that.

Religion will definitely never change human nature and it will definitely not make the world a better place because only we can do that.

If humans are naturally selfish, aggressive and competitive then how will any religion ever be able to change that?

As for religion I see it for what it is: a heart-warming myth used to pacify and control the masses who otherwise would not be so happy to accept their miserable lot, or in other words, their eventual demise and the eventual demise of all of humanity.
 
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Xelasnave.1947 said:
Does heaven have any attractions...theists must know after all they have so many details about it all...
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Haven't you heard that heaven has streets made of gold? Oh, and nice pearly gates at the entrance! That reminds me of an old joke:

A woman is standing outside the pearly gates, waiting to get in to heaven. She hears a woman's blood curdling scream come from inside.

She looks over at Saint Peter who tells her, "Don't worry, they are just drilling a hole for her halo."

A few minutes later she hears another blood curdling scream come from inside, and she looks over at Saint Peter again. This time he tells her, "Don't worry, they are just drilling a hole for her wings."

The woman says to Saint Peter, "You know what, never mind, I think I'll just go to the other place instead."

Saint Peter warns, "Oh, they'll rape and sodomize you down there."

The woman replies, "That's alright, I already have two holes for that!"
 
pluto2 said:
If humans are naturally selfish, aggressive and competitive then how will any religion ever be able to change that?
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Religion is just a form of culture, and culture definitely has an effect on human nature; emphasizing some things, repressing others... At the very least eventually culture effects evolution. It can control who we marry, our diet, how we treat the planet, and future humans won't be like present ones on a genetic level.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Eternal life is the carrot offered by belief. It's supposed to be an enviable reward.

It would be kind of dumb to build a religion around "commit no sin, and, when ye life comes to an end, ye shall get coupons!"
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But most religions don't do what you're suggesting. Most religions in history, and most traditional religions today, are like Judaism or Hellenic polytheism-- an ethnic religion that exists to contextualize a person's culture and traditions. Afterlife is an afterthought. Take the Jewish concept of Sheol, or the Greek idea of the Asphodel Fields. Those are far more typical of religious afterlives than the Christian Heaven.
 
I don't envy theists. I feel sorry for many of them.

I believe that in the future, science will be able to explain and predict everything about the world and I'm talking about the hard sciences like physics, chemistry, biology, neuroscience etc.

in the future everything will be able to be explained by the hard sciences and religion will simply become obsolete.
 
Theists are so desperate to be right. One of my shipmates was a believer and he saw me reading LOTR.

"See! You do believe in powers greater than your own!"

I laughed at him.
 
Hapsburg said:
But most religions don't do what you're suggesting. Most religions in history, and most traditional religions today, are like Judaism or Hellenic polytheism-- an ethnic religion that exists to contextualize a person's culture and traditions. Afterlife is an afterthought. Take the Jewish concept of Sheol, or the Greek idea of the Asphodel Fields. Those are far more typical of religious afterlives than the Christian Heaven.
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Maybe I'm mistaken, but your thoughtfulness seem a little out of place, at this point in the thread.

jan.
 
Who needs an afterlife if after death you can just sleep forever and you no longer suffer from any pain?

The way I see life is hardship, life is constant pain and suffering (at least this is the way my life has been) and after death you can finally find eternal peace... forever.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Theists are so desperate to be right. One of my shipmates was a believer and he saw me reading LOTR.

"See! You do believe in powers greater than your own!"

I laughed at him.
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They are desperate for others to think they are right. If they were desperate to be right, they would face reality.
So he equated your fantasy with his fantasy?

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pluto2 said:
Who needs an afterlife if after death you can just sleep forever and you no longer suffer from any pain?

The way I see life is hardship, life is constant pain and suffering (at least this is the way my life has been) and after death you can finally find eternal peace... forever.
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If there is no afterlife, there is no you to sleep or find peace. There is nothing.

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Gawdzilla Sama said:
Theists are so desperate to be right. One of my shipmates was a believer and he saw me reading LOTR.

"See! You do believe in powers greater than your own!"

I laughed at him.
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So. Many. Come backs.

"I know the difference between fiction and reality."

"Sure. It's fantasy. Right up your alley."
 
As Paul said, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."

Or, as Bob Seger said, "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."
 
StrangerInAStrangeLand said:
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They are desperate for others to think they are right. If they were desperate to be right, they would face reality.
So he equated your fantasy with his fantasy?

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Problem was I didn't have a fantasy, I had a book about a fantasy. I saw footage of some folks hold a "service" at Tolkien's grave. They were dressed ... in character, and one guy was reciting something in Elvish. That's a fantasy.
 
Actually I'm looking forward to my death.

I'm getting tired of life and everything and the way I see it life is mostly bullshit.

So after I finally die there is no more bullshit:

1. No more pain of rejection from pretty women who will always reject guys like me.
2. No more depression, loneliness and sadness.
3. No more ugliness or people making of fun of me because I'm really ugly.
4. No more of my constant craving for food and drink all the time
5. No more extreme pain and constant fear of injuries.

6. I also have this constant worry of becoming homeless and being forced to sleep on the streets with no place to take a warm shower and no soft bed to sleep on at night. In fact this is one of my biggest fears.

7. I also have this constant fear of going to jail for a very very long time and trust me, jails where I live are not a place you want to be in for a long time.

Death is superior to life and in this I'm 100% certain because life is mostly bullshit.
 
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The OP sounds like that idiot on a Youtube commercial. Says he's a "form atheist" who had "heard the witnessing" and "joined the Church". Moronism, I think it was called.
 
pluto2 said:
I'm getting tired of life and everything and the way I see it life is mostly bullshit. So after I finally die there is no more bullshit:.
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Given that most of the "bullshit" on your list are things you can control, why not just avoid the bullshit to begin with?
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Problem was I didn't have a fantasy, I had a book about a fantasy. I saw footage of some folks hold a "service" at Tolkien's grave. They were dressed ... in character, and one guy was reciting something in Elvish. That's a fantasy.
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I meant the book. Did not mean to imply that you believe the fantasy.

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