Atheist expects oblivion; Envies believers
- Thread starter Dinosaur
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Otherwise known as wishful thinking.
"I would like it to be true, thus I will choose to believe that it is."
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I am content with the fact that I do not know whether there is an afterlife. I do not worry about it. I much rather know that I do not know than to be deluded. If I could know there is an afterlife & that it is spent in either heaven or hell, I would much rather not exist.
Whatever discontent I have is related to this life I know I have.
I cannot envy someone who thinks someday a prince will put a slipper on her foot & they will live happily ever after.
The original belief & the continuing acceptance of beliefs concerning afterlife is probably due to several causes.
I am not much concerned with how much longer I will live in this life. My concern is with the quality of it. Fretting about how long or short it will be would only reduce the quality.
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The same applies to believing in the notion that this life is the be-all and end-all as a facade for associated lifestyle preferences.
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If there is no life after death, this life IS all there is. I do not believe either way. Most people cannot resist believing something tho & it is better to believe based on what they know rather than what they do not know.
What lifestyle preferences?
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Agree.
Everyone has beliefs. Beliefs do not need to be defended.
Unless they're presented in a public discussion forum as facts that other people should believe.
Another way to look at belief is to look at associated behaviour or action. If, for example, there is no essential behaviour for being uncertain about the next life that distinguishes it from the position of being certain that there is no next life, any distinction is purely academic. It would be more accurate to say both positions arise from an identical lifestyle choice.
As to what those lifestyle choices would be, one simply has to look at the advantages (either real or imagined) or habits that drive action in this world.
Why do you assume belief is caused by lifestyle choice, rather than lifestyle choice being the result of belief.
And i hate to bring this up again, but your style of "answer" to questions is sometimes irksome, as if you would prefer to sound intelligent than give a response people can actually work with. Rather than give examples of lifestyle choices to highlight your argument/claim you choose to give a rather vague response that is rather unhelpful.
So let me ask again, with the expectation of specific examples: what lifestyle choices?
True when the lights go out the lights go out
BUT while your light was shining you where illuminating the way for others who in turn showed others the way
That's the reverberation
Because values drive desire, not mere "information".
I was speaking accurately.
If you can't specifically isolate an important behaviour or habit that distinguishes uncertainty about something from certainty there is no something, the distinction is merely academic.
So as it pertains to the subject at hand, being uncertain about the next life and being certain there is no next life are practically identical for as long as one is unable to introduce any meaningful activities (beyond lip service) to distinguish the two.
The specific advantages of a lifestyle choice that doesn't entertain the notion of a next life are as broad as the reasons driving immediate benefit over long term benefit.
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I tend to see values as your belief and desires being your lifestyle choices. As such you seem to be agreeing that belief drives lifestyle choices, not vice versa as you initially claimed. Or do you really think belief is a choice? That someone says "ooh, this lifestyle choice looks good, now I just need to believe X and I can achieve it"?
I'm not saying otherwise yet. I'm merely saying the style of your responses is often unhelpful, especially when asked for examples and you only offer a vague allusion.
Sure, the practical result of two different intellectual positions could be the same, but I do hope you're not going to equivocation the two positions as a result? I do hope you're not going to try to claim that agnosticism equates to belief that God does not exist simply because, say, neither prays to God, or other such activities that those who do believe might engage in? If you are in any doubt as to an important difference then just read what each group says on this forum.
Just because two paths lead to the same end doesn't mean the differences are mere lip service. "Lip service" suggests one talks a position they don't really hold, and I assure you that agnostics are quite capable of holding the position they talk about, even if practically it appears consistent with strong atheism.
So once again, despite being asked quite clearly for a specific example, you opt not to. Are you deliberately trying to be unhelpful? Because have no doubt that this type of response really is unhelpful.
I guess if you redefine atheism and theism away from being matters of belief but matters of praxis, then you can get atheists who believe that God exists, theists that don't.
But, like Sarkus, I don't see belief in an afterlife as being the result of a lifestyle choice.
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Lifestyle choices stem from such beliefs, in my opinion.
If I believed in God then I would likely make appropriate lifestyle choices that fit in with that belief, or at least make lifestyle choices that I could rationalise in line with that belief.
I don't have the belief that God or the afterlife exists, and I make lifestyle choices that are attuned to this lack of belief.
I certainly didn't see a lifestyle I liked, chose it, and then determined and subsequently held the beliefs I required for it.
That, frankly, is absurd.
Choices are driven by such beliefs.
Not the other way around.
But, like Sarkus, I don't see belief in an afterlife as being the result of a lifestyle choice.
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Lifestyle choices stem from such beliefs, in my opinion.
If I believed in God then I would likely make appropriate lifestyle choices that fit in with that belief, or at least make lifestyle choices that I could rationalise in line with that belief.
I don't have the belief that God or the afterlife exists, and I make lifestyle choices that are attuned to this lack of belief.
I certainly didn't see a lifestyle I liked, chose it, and then determined and subsequently held the beliefs I required for it.
That, frankly, is absurd.
Choices are driven by such beliefs.
Not the other way around.
Two things methinks he might be tip-toeing around
1/ I like the sinful lifestyle (HIS perception of what a sinful lifestyle is) so I will become a atheist
2/ I love dressing up in sexy lady clothes so I will become a transvestite
As you say absurd
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No 1 is certain whether there is an afterlife unless they have died, experienced it & somehow come back.
Many claim to be certain but they are not. They are either pretending or deluded.
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As has been noted (not sure if in this thread) what is the point of a afterlife? Why not just keep this one going?
Or do reincarnationist (?) have the correct reasoning?
Afterlife is keep coming back as something else until you get it right?
Or with the christian view of afterlife one choice only and two main afterlife choices, heaven / hell
///As has been noted (not sure if in this thread) what is the point of a afterlife? Why not just keep this one going?
Or do reincarnationist (?) have the correct reasoning?
Afterlife is keep coming back as something else until you get it right?
Or with the christian view of afterlife one choice only and two main afterlife choices, heaven / hell
What is the point of stars, planets & galaxies? Why not 1 universal planet?
What is the point of billions of people?
What is the point of skunks?
What is the point of idiots who think intelligent people are idiots?
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I think if you substitute "reason" for "point" you can sum EVERYTHING up with "There isn't any point (reason)"
Everything just is
If you anthropomorph a creator into the picture then for the following,
What is the point of stars, planets & galaxies? Why not 1 universal planet?
What is the point of billions of people?
What is the point of skunks?
What is the point of idiots who think intelligent people are idiots?
and all other related stuff, then I'm afraid you will either have to ask him / her / it / or whatever it is you have conjured up those questions or read the mind of him / her / it / or whatever it is you have conjured up
And you are certain of this because....?
If it's any consolation, skunks probably have an equal if not more disdainful opinion of your existence.