Atheist expects oblivion; Envies believers

D

Dinosaur

Rational Skeptic
Valued Senior Member
In 5-12 years, I expect total oblivion.

My brain processes my memories & thoughts. When it is no longer functional, those memories & thoughts will be non-existent.

To me the above means that nothing I consider to be me will exist.​

I envy those who expect some continued existence, but wonder what basis there is for that belief.
 
Ignorance is bliss? I don't envy them at all. From a purely physical perspective, nothing you do in life can be completely erased. The locus of cause and effect that was you reverberates through time like a slowly fading bell...
 
spidergoat said:
The locus of cause and effect that was you reverberates through time like a slowly fading bell...
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This sounds more like a definition of aging when you're there to experience the "locus of cause and effect"; but when the lights go out, what reverberates? You're simply back to the common source called "from nothing" which inevitably goes back into nothing.
 
Eternal life is the carrot offered by belief. It's supposed to be an enviable reward.

It would be kind of dumb to build a religion around "commit no sin, and, when ye life comes to an end, ye shall get coupons!"
 
Dinosaur said:
In 5-12 years, I expect total oblivion.

My brain processes my memories & thoughts. When it is no longer functional, those memories & thoughts will be non-existent.

To me the above means that nothing I consider to be me will exist.
I envy those who expect some continued existence, but wonder what basis there is for that belief.
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What do you consider to be you, and why do you consider it to be you??

Jan.
 
From Jan Post 6
What do you consider to be you, and why do you consider it to be you??
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I consider my body other than my brain to be an accessory required to maintain my brain, whose functions are essential to what I consider to be me.

Due to some processes (called thoughts & memories) in my brain, I have a belief that I am a human being similar in many characteristics to other human males. Those processes also create a belief that I am unique, having many differences between myself & any other human.

Among those processes are memories of my activities since I was circa 5 years old.

My fingerprints, retinal patterns, DNA, & other physical characteristics are different from those of other males. Those differences are superficial to what I consider to be me. I consider my memories & conscious thought processes to be the characteristics that are the essence of myself.

As long as my memory & other brain functions are not seriously impaired, I consider myself to exist even if complex technology is required to keep me alive. If major brain processes no longer function or if I am in a permanent coma, I should be considered to be dead. If a person I cared for were in that condition, I would suggest to medical personal that further life support technology be discontinued.
 
Dinosaur said:
I consider my body other than my brain to be an accessory required to maintain my brain, whose functions are essential to what I consider to be me.

Due to some processes (called thoughts & memories) in my brain, I have a belief that I am a human being similar in many characteristics to other human males. Those processes also create a belief that I am unique, having many differences between myself & any other human.
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That's all well and good.
Define ''I''?
Does your ''I'' belong to you, also?
If so, what is the ''you''?
Does the ''you'' belong to ''you'' also?
Can you see just by the language you use, how absurd your position, could be?

jan.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Can somebody tell me why I would be envious of those who sit at God's feet and sing hosannas for all eternity? Sounds like Hell to me.
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As I might have mentioned here I think god is Currently testing out Alzheimer's

Ever day in heaven will be a new one with all new friends

:)
 
In a previous Post I remarked
I consider my body other than my brain to be an accessory required to maintain my brain, whose functions are essential to what I consider to be me.
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In Post 13 Jan referred to the above & remarked
That's all well and good.
Define ''I''?
Does your ''I'' belong to you, also?
If so, what is the ''you''?
Does the ''you'' belong to ''you'' also?
Can you see just by the language you use, how absurd your position, could be?
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Jan seems to be unaware of the requirements for undefined primitive words.

In both logic & human conversation, some words & phrases must be undefined primitives. The alternative is a collection of essentially meaningless circular definitions. Note the following
A defined word does not have to be used since it can be replaced by the words which define it. Therefore a defined word is unnecessary.

If all words are defined, there are no words which are necessary, which is an absurd conclusion.

Therefore there are must be some undefined primitive words.
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There can be little or no understanding between two people who have different concepts for those primitives.

I suspect that "I" and "you" are such primitive words, making my remarks both reasonable & understandable rather than absurd.
 
Dinosaur said:
In a previous Post I remarked In Post 13 Jan referred to the above & remarkedJan seems to be unaware of the requirements for undefined primitive words.
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I engaged in a discussion with Jan about a thousand posts long. This was his M.O. when he'd painted his way into a corner. He would resort to equivocation. Either he would insist that common words had no useful definition, or he would do the exact opposite, and repeat his own personal definition over and over. He must have used his own preferred definition at least two hundred times - and insisted that, simply by stating it, it was unassailable. What he was really doing was trying to sow mystery and fogginess to the whole subject, since shining a bright, clarifying light on it was not in his interests.
 
Dinosaur said:
In 5-12 years, I expect total oblivion. My brain processes my memories & thoughts. When it is no longer functional, those memories & thoughts will be non-existent. To me the above means that nothing I consider to be me will exist.
Click to expand...

I expect the cognitively discriminated differences of my life sequence to co-exist the same as ever. With my last, coherent brain-state that has a correlation to consciousness just being part of a "death bookend" defining one border which my supposed overall identity is restricted "behind". Complemented oppositely by the figurative bookend of whatever initial, vague awareness emerged during my fetal stage development.

Between those two, the individual or discriminated differences (of my life sequence) internally experience isolation from each other as milliseconds-long intervals of consciousness (thus the appearances-based folk belief that "only this moment is real"). But which nevertheless feel connected to each other via memory and anticipation / prediction (and indeed are so conjoined when minus the distinctions / separations introduced by cognition's manner of representation).

Arguably, there's an inferred existence beyond those two privately observable bookends of personal experience either ceasing or beginning. Extending all the way to total cessation of brain and body functioning in the death orientation, and all the way back to being a zygote with respect to the origin orientation. Also, there will be later amnesia with regard to the first, tentative consciousness as a fetus -- making it rather fuzzy as to whether that really counts as a non-corrupted form of manifested evidence, since it has one foot in "inferred evidence" territory (intellectual / rational certification). At the opposite pole, there's no "after period" for remembering the final dying experiences.

~
 
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Dinosaur said:
In 5-12 years, I expect total oblivion.

My brain processes my memories & thoughts. When it is no longer functional, those memories & thoughts will be non-existent.

To me the above means that nothing I consider to be me will exist.​

I envy those who expect some continued existence, but wonder what basis there is for that belief.
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///
Why envy delusion? Why envy people living on lies?
They may expect it but they do not know it will happen any more than you do.
Delusion causes much more harm than good.
Would you rather your brain processes be such to enable you to believe stupid ignorant nonsense?

<>
 
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