Atheism is a belief.

[CheskiChips]

JDawg - no, you *don't* know. You simply do not subscribe to the belief that God exists, but you cannot know He doesn't - that's absurd.

I don't hate, nor do I oppress anyone. I'm a pacifist and do not support or condone violence of any kind. Faith is a gift of God - not a whimsy.

'Faith is the *assured* expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstrations of realities though not beheld.' (Hebrews 11:1)

While I do have faith, with regard to the existence of God our Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, the above definition of the word does not apply to me. I know and have seen Jesus, and while I have not seen God with my physical eyes, I have heard Him and felt His Presence many times. I feel God's Presence as I type these words, but there have been times, times of mortal danger, when God's Presence was far more dramatic than the pefect peace He gives me now. I am never without Him. Jesus promised 'I will never leave you nor forsake you,' and He doesn't.

Peace be upon you - Jesse.

Jesse Leigh, you're not a speaks in tongues kinda gal are you?

 

[JesseLeigh]

G'day Q!

Sorry, but naturopaths aren't doctors. They have been allowed to use that moniker, much to the chagrin of the medical profession.

You know, the people who are doctors.

I don't know the source of your information but I can assure you that ND's are doctors. We have to learn everything an MD does as well as engage in the further study of natural medicine. It took me fourteen years of study to have the qualifications I have today, and I have to invest a fair amount of time in order to keep current with new research/discovery/developments etc.

I'm not claiming that ND's are superior to MD's, but I think you'll find the present trend is for MD's to further their knowledge by learning about natural medicine too. I have friends who specialize in different areas of medicine, MD's, ND's, and all their sub-specialties. A good doctor learns all he or she can about all facets of medicine, and whether MD or ND, I have the privilege of knowing many fine doctors who do just that.

JFYI.

Peace - Jesse.

 

[JesseLeigh]

G'day Cheski!

You ask,

Jesse Leigh, you're not a speaks in tongues kinda gal are you?

Sometimes, but not lately. That isn't a gift one can decide to produce on demand. I've been given it at times (not all times, but some) when I've been instrumental (used) in the healing of someone.

Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.

 

[(Q)]

G'day Q!



I don't know the source of your information but I can assure you that ND's are doctors. We have to learn everything an MD does as well as engage in the further study of natural medicine. It took me fourteen years of study to have the qualifications I have today, and I have to invest a fair amount of time in order to keep current with new research/discovery/developments etc.

I'm not claiming that ND's are superior to MD's, but I think you'll find the present trend is for MD's to further their knowledge by learning about natural medicine too. I have friends who specialize in different areas of medicine, MD's, ND's, and all their sub-specialties. A good doctor learns all he or she can about all facets of medicine, and whether MD or ND, I have the privilege of knowing many fine doctors who do just that.

JFYI.

Peace - Jesse.

Yeah, that's quite comical, Jesse. I laughed till I cried. You are no doctor by any stretch of the imagination. And no, naturopaths do NOT learn what real doctors learn, that is a lie. One can get a "degree" in less than 15 months. PhD's are available online for $250. It's little more than pseudoscience.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Naturopathy/naturopathy.html

 

[JesseLeigh]

Yeah, that's quite comical, Jesse. I laughed till I cried. You are no doctor by any stretch of the imagination. And no, naturopaths do NOT learn what real doctors learn, that is a lie. One can get a "degree" in less than 15 months. PhD's are available online for $250. It's little more than pseudoscience.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Naturopathy/naturopathy.html

Cute, but that's not remotely what I do - it sounds more akin to New Age garbage to me. Still, I'm not going to waste time arguing with you about it. Your condemnation or validation is inconsequential to me.

Try to have a healthy and less cynical day - you'll enjoy it more!

Peace - Jesse.

 

[(Q)]

Cute, but that's not remotely what I do - it sounds more akin to New Age garbage to me. Still, I'm not going to waste time arguing with you about it. Your condemnation or validation is inconsequential to me.

You said you're a naturopath, didn't you? Then, it is what you do. Why are you lying about it?

 

[Blindman]

Look out an attempt is being made to parallel atheism with secular stupidity... Words do not make an ideology, especially in a dictionary. Have you looked up its meaning in other languages.

Oh pardon my ignorance. How many languages have the same word for atheist. or am i something different in another language/culture..

 

[JesseLeigh]

Q...

Originally Posted by JesseLeigh
Cute, but that's not remotely what I do - it sounds more akin to New Age garbage to me. Still, I'm not going to waste time arguing with you about it. Your condemnation or validation is inconsequential to me. ”

You said you're a naturopath, didn't you? Then, it is what you do. Why are you lying about it?

I am not responsible for the descriptive content of obscure Internet forums. I have already explained that your link to... wherever that is, is not descriptive of what I, as a naturopath, do.

You are not my patient and never will be so the disciplines I follow should be small issue to you. I believe I've made myself clear on this matter so further discussion is pointless. - Jesse.

 

[(Q)]

I am not responsible for the descriptive content of obscure Internet forums. I have already explained that your link to... wherever that is, is not descriptive of what I, as a naturopath, do.

No one was questioning what you do, only questioning your claim to be doctor, which you most certainly are not, as a naturopath.

 

[Simon Anders]

Well, if she has a doctor of naturopathic medicine, then she gets to use that title.

 

[Balerion]

Well, if she has a doctor of naturopathic medicine, then she gets to use that title.

Yeah, but it's a bit of a slap in the face to real doctors. The ones that actually earn their title and actually help people using legitimate methods, as opposed to the new age BS that people like Jesse peddle.

 

[John99]

Yeah, but it's a bit of a slap in the face to real doctors. The ones that actually earn their title and actually help people using legitimate methods, as opposed to the new age BS that people like Jesse peddle.

You dont like to read too much do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_medicine

Naturopathic Doctors

See also: Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine

Naturopathic doctors in North America are primary care providers trained in conventional medical sciences, diagnosis and treatment, and are experts in natural therapeutics. Licensing and training requirements vary from state to state, but at least 16 states, the District of Columbia, and five Canadian provinces have formal licensing and educational requirements. [15][16] - In these jurisdictions, naturopathic doctors must pass comprehensive board exams set by the North American Board of Naturopathic Examiners (NABNE)[17] after having completed academic and clinical training at a college certified by the Council on Naturopathic Medical Education (CNME)[18]. The letters ND usually designate a naturopathic doctor in jurisdictions where such a title is protected by law, although other designations exist. In unregulated jurisdictions, the ND title is not protected and may be used by any practitioner regardless of qualifications.

The last line:

In unregulated jurisdictions, the ND title is not protected and may be used by any practitioner regardless of qualifications.

can also be said of MDs so what is the difference?

 

[Simon Anders]

Yeah, but it's a bit of a slap in the face to real doctors. The ones that actually earn their title and actually help people using legitimate methods, as opposed to the new age BS that people like Jesse peddle.

I don't know what Jesse means. But naturopaths who are graduates of accreditate schools go through an education that is as a long as these other doctors and further is all based on empirically tested methods. These guys are as anal and scientific as anybody out there. I think you are confusing naturopathy with something else. Some of their treatements are the same as other alternative practitioners, but if they use them it means they were tested in exactly the same ways pharmaceuticals used by 'normal' doctors are.

If you actually look at the research used by these people the protocols, etc. are indistinguishable. It is not new age.

 

[Balerion]

You must be right, Simon, because that doesn't sound at all like what I was thinking of...but I couldn't for the life of me tell you what it was...shoot. Anyway, apologies to Jesse.

And as for John, you could have handled it better than that. Like how Simon did. Just because you're being dismantled and debunked in another thread is no reason to take it out on me.

 

[John99]

Thats ok, everyone makes mistakes.

 

[(Q)]

I don't know what Jesse means. But naturopaths who are graduates of accreditate schools go through an education that is as a long as these other doctors

Do they go to medical school? No.

Do they go through internship? No.

They get a degree from two to four years of education, the equivalent to a bachelors.

 

[Simon Anders]

Do they go to medical school? No.

Do they go through internship? No.

They get a degree from two to four years of education, the equivalent to a bachelors.

Sorry, but that is not correct.

AFTER a bachelor's degree (see the second quote below) they can apply to naturopath doctoral programs and then fulfill the following:

Naturopathic Doctor Licensure
Licensure for naturopathic doctors provides many benefits:

In order to be licensed as a primary care, general practice physician by a state or jurisdiction which requires licensing, one must:

Graduate from a four-year, professional-level program at a federally accredited naturopathic medical school. (See Selecting an ND School.)

Study a curriculum which includes current medical science and traditional naturopathic theory.

Take and pass national board exams: Naturopathic Physicians Licensing Exam (NPLEX). This rigorous exam covers basic sciences, diagnostic and therapeutic subjects and clinical sciences.

Candidates for full licensure must also satisfy all licensing requirements for the individual state or province in which they hope to practice. Most of the states and provinces that license naturopathic physicians also have health care systems which allow patients to use naturopathic doctors as their primary care physician.

Licensed States and Provinces
Currently, 14 states, four Canadian provinces, the District of Columbia, and the US territories of Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands all have licensing laws for naturopathic doctors.


Currently, 15 states, four Canadian provinces, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands all have laws regulating naturopathic doctors (NDs). In these states and provinces, naturopathic doctors are required to graduate from a four-year, residential naturopathic medical school and pass an extensive postdoctoral board examination (NPLEX) in order to receive a license.

Licensed naturopathic physicians must fulfill state- or province-mandated continuing education requirements annually, and have a specific scope of practice defined by the law in their state or province.

the programs I found on their accredidation site are 4 year programs. Couple this with the required bachelor's degree and you get 8 years.

Your point about them not going to medical school is meaningless. They do something else, something rather fucking rigorous.

Here are the admissions requirements of one of the Naturopathy doctoral programs.

Academic Requirements

A University bachelor's degree is required from a recognized post-secondary institution or the equivalent (as listed by the Canadian Information Centre for International Credentials - www.cicic.ca - or as listed by the US Department of Education at ope.ed.gov/accreditation .) For credentials earned outside of the USA and Canada a "comprehensive evaluation" must be completed from ICES www.bcit.ca/ices or from WES www.wes.org and sent directly to the Admissions Committee prior to the admissions deadline. Applicants must have completed the following specific courses as part of, or additionally to a bachelor's degree:

Biology -1 full-year (6 credit hours) - May be fulfilled by one year of general biology or one semester of cell biology plus one semester of an appropriate biology, such as botany, genetics, zoology, anatomy, microbiology, etc.
Psychology - 0.5 full-year (3 credit hours)
English / Humanities -1 full-year (6 credit hours) - Must include an essay component. (Note: applicants may be required to write a short essay at the time of interview.)
General Chemistry -1 full-year (6 credit hours)
Organic Chemistry - 0.5 full-year (3 credit hours)
Biochemistry - 0.5 full-year (3 credit hours)
In addition, prospective students would benefit by completing additional courses in some or all of the following areas:
Anatomy
Physics
Microbiology
Human Physiology
Genetics
Sociology
Statistics
Cell Biology
A passing mark of 60% is the absolute minimum grade required for all prerequisites. It is recommended that an overall cumulative grade-point average of 3.0 on a four-point scale (i.e. 75%) be attained for the applicant to be competitive for the limited seats available.

Credit may or may not be given for courses completed more than 10 years prior to application for admission, at the discretion of the Admissions Committee. Students should be prepared to show that they have kept themselves up-to-date in the sciences.

 

[Tht1Gy!]

GO Simon!!! Q, I really do think that jar is hindering you. JMO

 

[JesseLeigh]

Thank you gentlemen!

I'd given up on this thread, but now I'm glad I didn't hit 'delete.'

Actually, I studied in three countries, beginning in Scotland where I did three years pre med, not knowing at the time in which direction I would go - allopathic or naturopathic medicine.

After crossing the pond, I studied in Colorado and then in Canada. My years of formal (medical) study total 14.

Just to ease Q's mind, I no longer have a formal practice. I live in a remote area in the Coastal Mountains in BC (with my husband) and help the people here as needed - no charge.

Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.

 

[Tht1Gy!]

I live in a remote area in the Coastal Mountains in BC (with my husband) and help the people here as needed - no charge.

Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.

You lucky dog! I grew up in the pacific northwest. and man, do I miss the mountains! I now live in Nebraska. I enjoy it and all... But still...