How do you know "nothing of substance has been altered"?
Surely that's an assumption.
Atheism is a belief.
- Thread starter Tht1Gy!
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Surely that's an assumption.
Agnostic means without knowledge. Atheist means without belief. SAME THING.
Agnostic was coined by Huxley because he didn't want to be called atheist.
It MAY be that most agnostics differ in some ways from most atheists. It MAY be that many atheists make a flat statement that there are no gods. (Some probably do so for simplicity.)
Still, atheist & agnostic are 2 words for the same thing.
Agnostic was coined by Huxley because he didn't want to be called atheist.
It MAY be that most agnostics differ in some ways from most atheists. It MAY be that many atheists make a flat statement that there are no gods. (Some probably do so for simplicity.)
Still, atheist & agnostic are 2 words for the same thing.
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
G'morning Q!
You asked,
Yes and no. Originally, JESUS talked to Paul on the road to Damascus, and those who were with him heard part of that message - 'Why are you persecuting Me?'
The Holy Spirit, dispatched by (and being part of) God inspired *all* the writers of the Bible. Sometimes God did speak to people directly, just as God has spoken to me directly in my life, but most of the time God communicates with me via The Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul also included his own *opinion*, which is always stated as such, in some of his letters. He added, however, that he *believed* he had the authority of The Holy Spirit. (Some Bibles read that The Holy Spirit was 'With him.' ) So, we don't have to wonder which parts of the Bible were Authored by God via His Holy Spirit, and which ones reflect His servant's opinions.
I find it lends credibility to the Bible that God did not alter what His servants wrote down. In the Gospels one writer saw Jesus' cloak (the one the soldiers put on Him as they mocked Him prior to His crucifixion) as red while another saw it as blue.
Further investigation reveals that 'Priestly garments' in those days were made of 'Wool dyed reddish purple.' Depending upon where one was standing in the hot Jerusalem sun, the cloak would appear to be blue in some light, red in another, and purple in another. Having lived in Jerusalem, I can personally testify to how powerfully the sun shines there and how colors *appear* to change when they are viewed from different vantage points, and in different light.
No two humans see *anything* in the same way in any case. If you and I were to look at a burgundy Rolls Royce e.g., we'd each perceive the color of the vehicle in a different way - however subtle.
I am a doctor, a naturopath, Q, but if you don't believe what I said about color - Google it!
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
You asked,
Yes and no. Originally, JESUS talked to Paul on the road to Damascus, and those who were with him heard part of that message - 'Why are you persecuting Me?'
The Holy Spirit, dispatched by (and being part of) God inspired *all* the writers of the Bible. Sometimes God did speak to people directly, just as God has spoken to me directly in my life, but most of the time God communicates with me via The Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul also included his own *opinion*, which is always stated as such, in some of his letters. He added, however, that he *believed* he had the authority of The Holy Spirit. (Some Bibles read that The Holy Spirit was 'With him.' ) So, we don't have to wonder which parts of the Bible were Authored by God via His Holy Spirit, and which ones reflect His servant's opinions.
I find it lends credibility to the Bible that God did not alter what His servants wrote down. In the Gospels one writer saw Jesus' cloak (the one the soldiers put on Him as they mocked Him prior to His crucifixion) as red while another saw it as blue.
Further investigation reveals that 'Priestly garments' in those days were made of 'Wool dyed reddish purple.' Depending upon where one was standing in the hot Jerusalem sun, the cloak would appear to be blue in some light, red in another, and purple in another. Having lived in Jerusalem, I can personally testify to how powerfully the sun shines there and how colors *appear* to change when they are viewed from different vantage points, and in different light.
No two humans see *anything* in the same way in any case. If you and I were to look at a burgundy Rolls Royce e.g., we'd each perceive the color of the vehicle in a different way - however subtle.
I am a doctor, a naturopath, Q, but if you don't believe what I said about color - Google it!
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
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Claiming atheism is a belief is foolish desperation.
Or desperate foolishness.
Or desperate foolishness.
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
G'day Oli! (Just covering our time differential here, LOL!)
You said,
It's not an assumption on my part, but I can't prove that to you because some of what I've been permitted to know was given to me by God, sometimes via Jesus and sometimes via The Holy Spirit.
I *can* tell you that my 'Assumption' (as you put it) is based on knowledge. We don't find any holes in the jigsaw, so to speak. There is nothing to prevent any seeker from coming to God through Christ. The Bible contains what is necessary to and for humankind to know the Will of God as it pertains to us.
I'm ever mindful though, that while the Bible is a blessing to us in our time, throughout most of time from Moses to now, most of God's children did not have access to a Bible and were taught by priests, prophets, and by The Holy Sprit Who guided their own spirits. As believers, we're taught directly by The Holy Spirit constantly, and the Bible is a touchstone of sorts if we're unsure as to whether we heard God correctly. The Holy Spirit NEVER contradicts the Bible - another gauge we can use to rest assured that 'The Word of God is alive and exerts power,' - and it does!
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
You said,
It's not an assumption on my part, but I can't prove that to you because some of what I've been permitted to know was given to me by God, sometimes via Jesus and sometimes via The Holy Spirit.
I *can* tell you that my 'Assumption' (as you put it) is based on knowledge. We don't find any holes in the jigsaw, so to speak. There is nothing to prevent any seeker from coming to God through Christ. The Bible contains what is necessary to and for humankind to know the Will of God as it pertains to us.
I'm ever mindful though, that while the Bible is a blessing to us in our time, throughout most of time from Moses to now, most of God's children did not have access to a Bible and were taught by priests, prophets, and by The Holy Sprit Who guided their own spirits. As believers, we're taught directly by The Holy Spirit constantly, and the Bible is a touchstone of sorts if we're unsure as to whether we heard God correctly. The Holy Spirit NEVER contradicts the Bible - another gauge we can use to rest assured that 'The Word of God is alive and exerts power,' - and it does!
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
G'morning Nasor!
Well put, if I may say so.
G'morning StrangerInAStrangeLand!
Atheism and agnosticism are not the same belief systems. Atheists believe that there is no God, while agnostics believe that there is insufficient data to prove or disprove the existence of God.
Here's Webster's definition of both words,
Main Entry: ag·nos·ti·cism Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: agnästsizm, g-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
1 a : the doctrine that the existence or nature of any ultimate reality is unknown and probably unknowable or that any knowledge about matters of ultimate concern is impossible or improbable; specifically : the doctrine that God or any first cause is unknown and probably unknowable b : a doctrine affirming that the existence of a god is possible but denying that there are any sufficient reasons for holding either that he does or does not exist -- compare ATHEISM, SKEPTICISM
2 : SKEPTICISM 1b
3 : an agnostic attitude or disposition
Main Entry: athe·ism Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: thizm
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist (from Greek atheos godless, not believing in the existence of gods, from a- 2a- + theos god) + -isme -ism -- more at THE-
1 a : disbelief in the existence of God or any other deity b : the doctrine that there is neither God nor any other deity -- compare AGNOSTICISM
2 : godlessness especially in conduct : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
Hope this helps.
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
Well put, if I may say so.
G'morning StrangerInAStrangeLand!
Atheism and agnosticism are not the same belief systems. Atheists believe that there is no God, while agnostics believe that there is insufficient data to prove or disprove the existence of God.
Here's Webster's definition of both words,
Main Entry: ag·nos·ti·cism Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: agnästsizm, g-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
1 a : the doctrine that the existence or nature of any ultimate reality is unknown and probably unknowable or that any knowledge about matters of ultimate concern is impossible or improbable; specifically : the doctrine that God or any first cause is unknown and probably unknowable b : a doctrine affirming that the existence of a god is possible but denying that there are any sufficient reasons for holding either that he does or does not exist -- compare ATHEISM, SKEPTICISM
2 : SKEPTICISM 1b
3 : an agnostic attitude or disposition
Main Entry: athe·ism Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: thizm
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist (from Greek atheos godless, not believing in the existence of gods, from a- 2a- + theos god) + -isme -ism -- more at THE-
1 a : disbelief in the existence of God or any other deity b : the doctrine that there is neither God nor any other deity -- compare AGNOSTICISM
2 : godlessness especially in conduct : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
Hope this helps.
Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.
Not according to the dictionary.
Satan and Jehovah are pals
See I buy into the existance of the soul and if enough people want and believe in a concept like "J" and/or "S" that it is possible that there are souls who are 'willing to do the job'.
Is this clear? Typing isn't my thing.
I called christians insane for believing in parts of the bible. You said that was unfair. I then simply asked if you believed in those parts.
It's quite simple, do you grant the bible any credibility?
Oh, I see. No, I agree, many parts are quite insane. However, the book also holds some truth.
I maintain; there are sane christians.
There's a quote I heard from Jimmy Carter (a fundamentalist): "Science is god's way of revealing himself."
Now, while there is much on the subject of god that Mr. Carter and I would disagree, I think his perspective in this is most useful.
Ps What is the significanse of your handle, i.e. what does it mean?
Let's try this:
Q: Do you believe in the (insert religious text here) vedas, blble, i ching, torah, koran...etc.
A: How DARE you try to label me! Why, if I had never heard of this: (insert religious text here) it wouldn't even be an issue! I refuse to answer the question!
And it's not a belief! So there!
Response: Easy there dude. I only asked a question. No need to pop a blood vessel.
My point; more examples things one can "Not believe in" that do in fact exist.
How about World Leaders? Lots of 'em I could name that I don't believe in. But they exist.
How about the big bang? Do I believe in it?
What is this 'big bang' you speak of? Why, it's all just conjecture. Had I not had this question forced upon me by you, you scientists; it wouldn't even be a issue.!!! If the steady state theory was good enough for my pappy, it's good enough for me!
It's a simple yes or no question: Does god exist? Yes, No, or I don't know. I guess one could augment the last two with "not enough evidence";
The big bang isn't proved yet. Yes I know; so far, the theory fits the facts... wait- what's this about dark energy & matter? you mean we have a theory of the beginning of the universe that leaves out 95% of the equation, and is based on the 5% we can see?
Don't you worry your pretty little head about that 95%, it'll fit in to the theory, just you wait.:bugeye:
I'm not against the big bang, I'm just making a comparison. Do I believe in the big bang... eh, I believe that it's the currently accepted theory. And so I choose to have a general understanding of it. But back in the '70s there was also the idea of the "big crunch" and that the universe oscillates... And in the '60s there was also the steady state theory...:shrug:
Ps. I am pro science, I just think that the current scientific paradigm is limited in what it 'sees'.
And it changes it's mind from time to time. (Which is a good thing!) The problem is when it forgets that it does in fact change it mind. Or rather, those in it choose to forget that it can change again.
Q: Do you believe in the (insert religious text here) vedas, blble, i ching, torah, koran...etc.
A: How DARE you try to label me! Why, if I had never heard of this: (insert religious text here) it wouldn't even be an issue! I refuse to answer the question!
And it's not a belief! So there!
Response: Easy there dude. I only asked a question. No need to pop a blood vessel.
My point; more examples things one can "Not believe in" that do in fact exist.
How about World Leaders? Lots of 'em I could name that I don't believe in. But they exist.
How about the big bang? Do I believe in it?
What is this 'big bang' you speak of? Why, it's all just conjecture. Had I not had this question forced upon me by you, you scientists; it wouldn't even be a issue.!!! If the steady state theory was good enough for my pappy, it's good enough for me!
It's a simple yes or no question: Does god exist? Yes, No, or I don't know. I guess one could augment the last two with "not enough evidence";
The big bang isn't proved yet. Yes I know; so far, the theory fits the facts... wait- what's this about dark energy & matter? you mean we have a theory of the beginning of the universe that leaves out 95% of the equation, and is based on the 5% we can see?
Don't you worry your pretty little head about that 95%, it'll fit in to the theory, just you wait.:bugeye:
I'm not against the big bang, I'm just making a comparison. Do I believe in the big bang... eh, I believe that it's the currently accepted theory. And so I choose to have a general understanding of it. But back in the '70s there was also the idea of the "big crunch" and that the universe oscillates... And in the '60s there was also the steady state theory...:shrug:
Ps. I am pro science, I just think that the current scientific paradigm is limited in what it 'sees'.
And it changes it's mind from time to time. (Which is a good thing!) The problem is when it forgets that it does in fact change it mind. Or rather, those in it choose to forget that it can change again.
Atheism is crunchy and good with milk
96% of atheists drink milk so theists should make milk illegal to cut down on atheism.
100% of Atheists and Theists require Oxygen, perhaps that is what should be made illegal. Cut down on conflict.
Why do you want to oppress the breatharians?
JesseLeigh
Registered Member
100% of atheist and theists require LOVE. That's what 'Conquers all,' not conflict.
A public service message brought to you by your on board pacifistic theist - or one of 'em. - Jesse.
A public service message brought to you by your on board pacifistic theist - or one of 'em.
- Jesse.