Atheism is a belief.

I know how to use a dictionary.

  • Yes, and I incorporate its info.

    Votes: 28 57.1%

  • Yes, but I still like to make up definitions as I go along.

    Votes: 10 20.4%

  • No, I believe in "Truthiness"

    Votes: 17 34.7%
  • Total voters
    49
Yep!

Evening!

Any belief commonly held by a group of individuals, as opposed to an individual with a unique perspective, is by definition a belief, and a belief or set of beliefs held by a group of people has to be considered a faith - by definition.

I didn't need a dictionary for this one. ;) - Jesse.
 
JesseLeigh said:
Evening!

Any belief commonly held by a group of individuals, as opposed to an individual with a unique perspective, is by definition a belief, and a belief or set of beliefs held by a group of people has to be considered a faith - by definition.

I didn't need a dictionary for this one. ;) - Jesse.
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Oooo! Nicely said.;)
 
jesse said:
Any belief commonly held by a group of individuals, as opposed to an individual with a unique perspective, is by definition a belief, and a belief or set of beliefs held by a group of people has to be considered a faith - by definition.

I didn't need a dictionary for this one.
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You might want to reconsider your needs,

unless I am missing a joke, there ?
 
JesseLeigh said:
Evening!

Any belief commonly held by a group of individuals, as opposed to an individual with a unique perspective, is by definition a belief, and a belief or set of beliefs held by a group of people has to be considered a faith - by definition.

I didn't need a dictionary for this one. ;) - Jesse.
Click to expand...

I keep wanting to write a post in this thread approaching the OP from a certain direction but I cannot come up with a complete argument.

I think it is a kind of sociological reaction and your post reminded me of it.

If atheism is defined merely as a lack of belief this seems to describe a certain kind of psychological relation to this lack of belief. When asked if there is a God, the person says. *Oh, well. I haven't found any good reason to believe.* And then they slide back into a life where this is not much of an issue.

But then anyone who engages regularly in arguing with theists about the existence of God, who identifies him or herself as an atheist - who often has a good deal of anger at theists as a group (rather than, for example, the Catholic Church since their nephew was abused by a priest or because of birth control issues in the 3rd world, etc. - and who can name various arguments for God or at least recognizes them

seems to me to be in a category beyond simply having a lack of belief. To me it seems to have become an idea - or at the very least a nexus of ideas, even an identity, a portion of it.

For this latter group to respond that they merely lack a belief in God seems disingenuous. It seems like another kind of life fits that lack of belief.

Does this mean that they believe there is no God?

No, not really. I can see where some of they may lack that belief.
 
Simon Anders said:
I keep wanting to write a post in this thread approaching the OP from a certain direction but I cannot come up with a complete argument.

I think it is a kind of sociological reaction and your post reminded me of it.

If atheism is defined merely as a lack of belief this seems to describe a certain kind of psychological relation to this lack of belief. When asked if there is a God, the person says. *Oh, well. I haven't found any good reason to believe.* And then they slide back into a life where this is not much of an issue.

But then anyone who engages regularly in arguing with theists about the existence of God, who identifies him or herself as an atheist - who often has a good deal of anger at theists as a group (rather than, for example, the Catholic Church since their nephew was abused by a priest or because of birth control issues in the 3rd world, etc. - and who can name various arguments for God or at least recognizes them

seems to me to be in a category beyond simply having a lack of belief. To me it seems to have become an idea - or at the very least a nexus of ideas, even an identity, a portion of it.

For this latter group to respond that they merely lack a belief in God seems disingenuous. It seems like another kind of life fits that lack of belief.

Does this mean that they believe there is no God?

No, not really. I can see where some of they may lack that belief.
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It seems you're asking me either a question or for a clairification of something, but for the life of me I don't know what it might be.
 
Tht1Gy! said:
It seems you're asking me either a question or for a clairification of something, but for the life of me I don't know what it might be.
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You? I quoted jesse leigh. A sockpuppet? And I wasn't really even asking her or him. I was using that post as a jumping off point. I presented my ideas about why saying atheism is merely a lack of belief seems incorrect to me in many cases.

You ask some guy on the street: Is there a God? and he says, after a moment's reflection, 'I guess I don't really go in for that religious stuff.' and he shrugs. That seems like a lack of belief.

Someone who can't wait to tear into a new Intelligent Design post seems to me to be a different kind of person who has a set of beliefs and an active agenda. (active agendas can be good of course. my point is that the word seems to me to be covering too much turf if it is defined as a lack of belief in God.)
 
Simon Anders said:
You? I quoted jesse leigh. A sockpuppet? And I wasn't really even asking her or him. I was using that post as a jumping off point. I presented my ideas about why saying atheism is merely a lack of belief seems incorrect to me in many cases.

You ask some guy on the street: Is there a God? and he says, after a moment's reflection, 'I guess I don't really go in for that religious stuff.' and he shrugs. That seems like a lack of belief.

Someone who can't wait to tear into a new Intelligent Design post seems to me to be a different kind of person who has a set of beliefs and an active agenda. (active agendas can be good of course. my point is that the word seems to me to be covering too much turf if it is defined as a lack of belief in God.)
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Sock puppet? No, but I thought 'OP' meant 'Original Poster' and that would be me.:D
As an aside, I couldn't help but hear Carly Simon singing as I wrote the other response. ;)
 
Tht1Gy! said:
Sock puppet? No, but I thought 'OP' meant 'Original Poster' and that would be me.:D
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Oh, I'd forgotten that was you. Anyway I meant dealing with the question of whether it is a belief or not. I think there are some people - who probably rarely label themselves atheists who simply lack a belief. And then there are other people where there seems to be a whole edifice. I was mostly agreeing with you I suppose. Feel no pressure to respond, it was a two cents post aimed at no one in particular.
 
Simon Anders said:
Oh, I'd forgotten that was you. Anyway I meant dealing with the question of whether it is a belief or not. I think there are some people - who probably rarely label themselves atheists who simply lack a belief. And then there are other people where there seems to be a whole edifice. I was mostly agreeing with you I suppose. Feel no pressure to respond, it was a two cents post aimed at no one in particular.
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But, but, but - must - respond--:eek:
:D
 
Simon

Evening!

If I understand your post correctly, Simon, I am in agreement with your line of thought re: atheism as a rigid, structured belief that there is no God. That's not a non-belief, it's a concrete belief. Contrast that with the fellow you mentioned who shrugged and in essence said 'I dunno.' That's neither a belief or a disbelief, it's a genuine lack of conviction of any sort. That's quite different from someone who claims to be an atheist, an agnostic, or a believer.

It is a non sequitur to conclude that because one does not believe in God that one is not a believer in anything. The statement made by an atheist 'I believe there is no God' is itself proof of a belief. The person making the statement has stated categorically that he or she believes there is no God. Ergo - they have a belief. Simple. - Jesse.

P.S. I'm a lady, btw. ;)
 
JesseLeigh said:
Evening!

If I understand your post correctly, Simon, I am in agreement with your line of thought re: atheism as a rigid, structured belief that there is no God. That's not a non-belief, it's a concrete belief. Contrast that with the fellow you mentioned who shrugged and in essence said 'I dunno.' That's neither a belief or a disbelief, it's a genuine lack of conviction of any sort. That's quite different from someone who claims to be an atheist, an agnostic, or a believer.

It is a non sequitur to conclude that because one does not believe in God that one is not a believer in anything. The statement made by an atheist 'I believe there is no God' is itself proof of a belief. The person making the statement has stated categorically that he or she believes there is no God. Ergo - they have a belief. Simple. - Jesse.

P.S. I'm a lady, btw. ;)
Click to expand...

Who said that ? Atheists say they do not believe in God.
 
Every dictionary in which I have looked up "Atheism" (5 of 'em) states: 'Atheism- The belief there is no God.' Only one had a mention of 'soft atheism' and it was definition 2, or 3.

There are three choices to the question "Does god, in some manner, exist?"

1, Yes = Theism
2, No = Atheism
3, I don't know = Agnostic
 
JesseLeigh said:
Evening!

If I understand your post correctly, Simon, I am in agreement with your line of thought re: atheism as a rigid, structured belief that there is no God. That's not a non-belief, it's a concrete belief. Contrast that with the fellow you mentioned who shrugged and in essence said 'I dunno.' That's neither a belief or a disbelief, it's a genuine lack of conviction of any sort. That's quite different from someone who claims to be an atheist, an agnostic, or a believer.

It is a non sequitur to conclude that because one does not believe in God that one is not a believer in anything. The statement made by an atheist 'I believe there is no God' is itself proof of a belief. The person making the statement has stated categorically that he or she believes there is no God. Ergo - they have a belief. Simple. - Jesse.
Click to expand...

It's quite comical, but rather sad, that theists attempt to use logic, reason and rationale when they are obviously void of those abilities.
 
(Q) said:
It's quite comical, but rather sad, that theists attempt to use logic, reason and rationale when they are obviously void of those abilities.
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This post was empty of argument.
Why not save yourself typing and simply write: Insult.
Or you could say something of substance and role model for those you consider inferior.
 
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