Astronomers acknowledge the probability of ETI-UFOs

At C at object requires an infinite amount of power because the object has aquired an infinite amount of mass
Indeed, although I've always wondered about acceleration due to gravity. Gravity exerts a constant force per unit mass, so gaining relativistic mass shouldn't matter if you were accelerating under the influence of a gravitational field - each extra kg that you gained would be exactly balanced by an increasing gravitational force. I don't kid myself that it's really that simple, but I don't quite know why it isn't.

Of course, there's still the infinite time dilation to consider...
 
Ok, I have not read enough of your posts to know where you are coming from, my apologies.
My point is that physical laws apply even to hypothetical beings
 
Of course they do, but our knowledge of physics is far from complete and we don't know what the hypothetical beings do. See?
 
And all the while everyone glibly ignores
a) Aliens with very long life spans.
b) Generation star ships
c) Hibernation.
Where did all the imagination go? (Did everyone waste their youth getting an education instead of reading SF?)
 
Don't worry: after nine generations in the confines of a generational starship you can rest assured that your behavioural patterns will be nicely warped by any standards.
 
Gustav said:
quite misleading
perhaps intentional
the above mentioned symptoms are alleged to be probable causes in cases that have been examined

Not at all. I have had an 'abduction experience' myself, except I know it was a dream, because my acting out of the experience whilst I was asleep was witnessed by my girlfriend.

I've also seen a documentary where Dr Susan Blackmore has temporal lobe epilepsy induced, and reports the same experiences as those who report abductions.

These phenomena have been recreated, and could account for a large number of 'abduction experiences'. Do you not think it's odd that they nearly all happen when we are asleep and dreaming? Does that not give you a clue, that they are actually, some sort of dream state?
 
duendy said:
WHAT'evidence'??????????????
YOUR definition ofevidence no doubt right? , limited by yer little measureing stick.pssssst, it aint workin is it? whatchagonna do now?

No duendy, evidence, as defined by the dictionary. But physical evidence would be great. Reliable testimony would be good.


you dont know that. to yu will say yo do. tis denial makies you feeel...comfort-able...ahhhhhhhhhh

I'm not denying people have strange experiences, we've been over this several times before duendy! What I am saying though, is that saying these experiences are alien abductions, with all that implies, is far, far less likely than the causes I have listed over and over again, which have been shown to cause the exact same reported symptoms!

oh my gawwwwd, yawn. yeah, night terrors. just chemicals huh? as it sys in your materialist bible no doubt. which you
BEEEELEIVE of course

I've seen it demonstrated, and experienced it myself. I know mine was a dream, therefore many others probably were too. Of course, you would discount my 'evidence', my testimony, because it doesn't fit with your predetermined closed minded conclusions!

explain 'seizures'

Go look up the old threads duendy, we've done this one before. Seems you weren't paying attention. How will you ever learn if you don't pay attention?

ohhh sweet jeeezus, what next. why yo got a BA of defensive tricks to keep ou feeling comfortable aint yo. so wouod yo suggest a prspn who reports an abducxtion has a scan for temporal lobe epliepsy then?

If it became regular, was discomforting, and concerned them, and they wanted help, yes I'd recommend that. It's a mental or, sleep disorder that can be fixed, so why not fix it? Or are these people supposed to feel like victims and have bad sleep because that suits your world view?

what if they tell u to go fuk yourself?

I'd recommend they also get checked out for Tourettes.

Basically, duendy, it sounds like you'd rather people suffer sleep disorders, than get a cure, because you want to prove alien abductions by sheer volume of people reporting them, with a complete disregard for these poor sods' health and wellbeing.

What you seem to miss, is that you lose credibility clinging to cases with mundane explanations, and the volume of mundane reports overshadows the few that just might warrant further investigation. With you, it's a case of 'never mind the quality, feel the width'.
 
Ophiolite said:
And all the while everyone glibly ignores
a) Aliens with very long life spans.
b) Generation star ships
c) Hibernation.
Where did all the imagination go? (Did everyone waste their youth getting an education instead of reading SF?)

Fair points, but the big issue, is the sheer size of the Universe. I keep coming back to the Voyager probes, which are the fastest man made objects. They are only just outside our solar system, and have been travelling for 30 years.

They are nowhere near getting to another star, and are just over a 'light day'
away. So, if they were on course for our nearest star (which they aren't), they'd take, well, at 4.4 light years, let's do the maths.

1 light day in 30 years. We need 4.4 x 365 x 30 = 48,180 years (ish) to get to our nearest star, assuming it's inhabited, to meet aliens.

That's a very long lifespan, a huge number of generations (evolutionary time span, what would the offspring look like, esp from limited gene pools?) and a long time in the deep freeze.

Assuming any single ship could last 48,000 years in space, and sustain it's crew, in whatever form. Of course, it would then take 4.4 years to get the data back, assuming they could beam it back to us. Assuming the Earth still existed, and the human inhabitants were still alive.

So speed is the only answer. We need to concquer distance. Warping space, or just going a hell of a lot quicker is the only answer. even going 1,000 times faster still gives us some challenges. 2,000 times faster might be useful. 2,000 times faster than the fastest thing we've ever made.

Well, it's ambitious, .....
 
Communist Hamster said:
No, the fact that the distances involved are so huge, that the aliens would travel here AND THEN, after travelling for years just do nothing spectacular.

me))))))and by 'spectacular' you mean?? and why would you think the complete turn around of someones worldview ISN't spectacular. and the reverberations of their reportedexperiences on the general mindset. get me? hence what we are exploring here etc

,So, duendy, if not facts and evidence, what else do we base conclusions on? You say our criteria for evidence is "constricted", but what do you mean by this? What exactly are we constricting, and could you give an example?

yes it is constricted because your criteria for 'evidence' is within the materialistc philosophical assumptions.
over and over i am pointing to the fact that we do not understand consciousness. tus anyphenomena that is going to ivolve consciousness in a deep way means that in order for us to appracoh the investigation of such phenoemena we cannot harp on with the old school wayof thinking. which here sees to totally dismiss phenomena from a limited prsepctive......
other more broader spectrum scientists know all i am speaking about. dont be misled that the cabal of materialistic scientific devotees here are some representation of the state of things conerning this field. NOT. yes. a prevailing materialistic oppression dictates most science, but there have been and cpntinue to be mavericks who push boundaries.
 
phlogistician said:
No duendy, evidence, as defined by the dictionary. But physical evidence would be great. Reliable testimony would be good.

me))i feel you just make it up. i have heard physical evidence DOESexists, but peple like yourself choose to ignore it--for example 'implants' from abductee experiences......also you constatly insult people who Do confess, thus disrespecting, intimidating and slandering andpatronizing them.

I'm not denying people have strange experiences, we've been over this several times before duendy! What I am saying though, is that saying these experiences are alien abductions, with all that implies, is far, far less likely than the causes I have listed over and over again, which have been shown to cause the exact same reported symptoms!

me)))))))'far less likely' in whose opinion? ok, you say you've experienced an 'abduction' which you then call 'sleep pralysis'---which??
why do you from therer assume ALL abduction experiences are exactly same as your experience.....also, why do you underestimate the CONTENT of a 'sleep paralywsis' experience. do you understand? your materialistic criteria says the content is superfluous doesn't it?



I've seen it demonstrated, and experienced it myself. I know mine was a dream, therefore many others probably were too. Of course, you would discount my 'evidence', my testimony, because it doesn't fit with your predetermined closed minded conclusions!

me))))no i am not discounting it. i am very very intterested in this. but am more open to wonder than you lot seem to be. you seem to exist in this state whee you just stop exploring at a point. and that point is the limit of your chosen materialistic philosophy. THAT you dont seem to want to xplore...???



Go look up the old threads duendy, we've done this one before. Seems you weren't paying attention. How will you ever learn if you don't pay attention?

me)))))oh, like YOU are not goin roundin cirles neiother. cause you are. cause you are a one-side dude. ie., you dont seemto realize you cant have an outside without an inside. an object with out a subject. objectivity without subjectivity



If it became regular, was discomforting, and concerned them, and they wanted help, yes I'd recommend that. It's a mental or, sleep disorder that can be fixed, so why not fix it? Or are these people supposed to feel like victims and have bad sleep because that suits your world view?

me)))what do you mean by 'FIXED'??



I'd recommend they also get checked out for Tourettes.

me)))oh well yeah. you'd keep them Gps and shrinks in business no doubt

Basically, duendy, it sounds like you'd rather people suffer sleep disorders, than get a cure, because you want to prove alien abductions by sheer volume of people reporting them, with a complete disregard for these poor sods' health and wellbeing.

me)))so, you believe in themental illness myth right?

What you seem to miss, is that you lose credibility clinging to cases with mundane explanations, and the volume of mundane reports overshadows the few that just might warrant further investigation. With you, it's a case of 'never mind the quality, feel the width'.

well i know you and your frinds never mind the quality thats for suree. for you it is all hard objects isn't it?
 
duendy said:
me))i feel you just make it up. i have heard physical evidence DOESexists, but peple like yourself choose to ignore it--for example 'implants' from abductee experiences
No one seems to be able to produce these wonderful implants. We have been through this a few times duendy. You knew of someone who had one remember?
 
shaman_ said:
No one seems to be able to produce these wonderful implants. We have been through this a few times duendy. You knew of someone who had one remember?
yes, that docu. i saw where a FAMILY reported ALL experiencing a very abduction experience, who weren't SLEEPIn, or having teir brains manipulated in a laboratory, or whatever else you choose t deflect openminded scientific investigation, nor 'sleep paralysis'-----well, in same doc. a doctor HAS a variety of implants where he claims people such as yourself dont even BOTHER to LOOK AT his evidence...!

i had attempted to copy the transcriptof the docu, and didpresent some of it here. BUT as u can imagine it is a drag to do with a VCR, and as i continued to read the seemingly indoctrinated bloody inded views of your'll with your regal cry of 'SHOW ME THE EVIDEENCE' i thought at the time. why the fuk am I goin to all tis troyble for when ypo lot cant be arsed to really LOOK at evidence. not even being aware of other more openminded scintific apporaches to these phenomena (errr, they Do exist---dheckout te late Dr Mack's writings and inveistigations on te net. he also reveals how materialistic scientfic apporach is severley limited in its definition of 'evidence'

but, yeah, physical evidence apparently DOES exists. admittedly u dont know of it.
 
duendy said:
yes, that docu. i saw where a FAMILY reported ALL experiencing a very abduction experience, who weren't SLEEPIn, or having teir brains manipulated in a laboratory, or whatever else you choose t deflect openminded scientific investigation, nor 'sleep paralysis'-----well, in same doc. a doctor HAS a variety of implants where he claims people such as yourself dont even BOTHER to LOOK AT his evidence...!
It's a bit hard when you wont give me any details at all. I've asked you about five times.

duendy said:
i had attempted to copy the transcriptof the docu, and didpresent some of it here. BUT as u can imagine it is a drag to do with a VCR, and as i continued to read the seemingly indoctrinated bloody inded views of your'll with your regal cry of 'SHOW ME THE EVIDEENCE' i thought at the time. why the fuk am I goin to all tis troyble for when ypo lot cant be arsed to really LOOK at evidence. not even being aware of other more openminded scintific apporaches to these phenomena (errr, they Do exist---dheckout te late Dr Mack's writings and inveistigations on te net. he also reveals how materialistic scientfic apporach is severley limited in its definition of 'evidence'

but, yeah, physical evidence apparently DOES exists. admittedly u dont know of it.
I am well aware of the claims. I am waiting for an implant to be produced.

It's interesting how you quickly you discard evidence that you don't like yet you instantly believe any story that you find interesting. Your opinions and beliefs are formed by emotion perhaps but certainly not logic duendy.
 
duendy said:
i have heard physical evidence DOESexists, but peple like yourself choose to ignore it--for example 'implants' from abductee experiences......also you constatly insult people who Do confess, thus disrespecting, intimidating and slandering andpatronizing them.

In duendy's mind, hearsay is evidence. Somoene said they saw someone's 'implant' and that counts as verification of the abductees claims. Never mind the very real possibility that the witness is actually the person making up the stories, and the abductee is fictional. We need to see the actual 'implant' duendy, that's the evidence.

'far less likely' in whose opinion?

In the opinion of those people who understand some physics and realise how fucking HUGE the galaxy is, duendy.


ok, you say you've experienced an 'abduction' which you then call 'sleep pralysis'---which??

No, I didn't say that duendy. Pay attention, the detail is important. I said I'd had an 'abduction experience'. I know I wasn't abducted, and I never said I was. I had a dream, which included sleep paralysis, that involved alien type apparitions trying to take me away. But I knew it was a dream, because my thrashings were witnesses by my partner, who I'd woken. We've been over this, your lack of attention span is really quite tiresome.

why do you from therer assume ALL abduction experiences are exactly same as your experience.....also, why do you underestimate the CONTENT of a 'sleep paralywsis' experience. do you understand? your materialistic criteria says the content is superfluous doesn't it?

I never said ALL. Pay attention. I said sleep paralysis is one of many disorders that accounts for abduction experiences. Again your lack of focus on the salient issues is rather tiresome.

no i am not discounting it. i am very very intterested in this. but am more open to wonder than you lot seem to be.

Not true at all. I'm looking for real evidence, hearsay, lies, blurry photos, 'channelling' and mumbo jumbo aren't what I need. I am open minded on this subject duendy, I firmly think the odds are that the Universe if full of life, and plenty of it will be intelligent. But for it to get here requires a rewriting of our understanding of physics. Scientists will discover if this is possible, not some self proclaimed 'channeller', or nutter like Qorl.

you seem to exist in this state whee you just stop exploring at a point. and that point is the limit of your chosen materialistic philosophy. THAT you dont seem to want to xplore...???

What is the limit of science, duendy? I want to explore the truth, that's my only limit.

what do you mean by 'FIXED'??

Finding a cure for the disorder that causes the bad dreams. Stop being obtuse.

so, you believe in themental illness myth right?

With people like Qorl on this board who talks to god apparently, do you not believe that some people are mentally ill? You've seen a mental health practitioner, so obviously, at some point, you did too?
 
Because you still can't grasp the idea of new propulsion methods.
Well done VRob, you read the first sentence of my post. If you had persevered you would also have read:
though I realise that relativity is merely the best approximation we have right now, subject to replacement at short notice.

Of course I cannot grasp the idea of propulsion that operates outside of the known laws of physics. You presumably can, so I will echo SkinWalker's question and ask: Which new propulsion methods are they?
 
Laika said:
Well done VRob, you read the first sentence of my post. If you had persevered you would also have read:


Of course I cannot grasp the idea of propulsion that operates outside of the known laws of physics. You presumably can, so I will echo SkinWalker's question and ask: Which new propulsion methods are they?

There are currently new propulsion methods being studied by Private, AND Public organizations. Methods which would not only increase our speed immensely, but would also make the G-Force problems faced today, irrelevent.

Here's but one example:

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925331.200
 
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