Arguments for and against the existence of God

[Crunchy Cat]

Crunchy Cat,
I suggest you actually read up on this, as you have been misinformed.

I don't think it really matters in this case.

There is no reference to "nothing" being before something, in any scripture
I have read.

ok

There is, however, the claim of unmanifest matter, becoming manifest.

What is *unmanifest* matter vs regular matter?

Matter can neither be created or destroyed

Sort of. You can obviously light your house on fire and destroy it. It's more accurate to say that energy cannot be created nor destroyed... only converted and / or compressed. In the history of our particular universe, there was quite a bit of time where there was no matter (in fact matter didn't show up until the recombination period).

, meaning it is eternal, a scientific fact, and an ancient scriptoral injuction.

For something to be eternal means time is a seperate entity that exists infinitely. That hasn't been demonstrated to be the case. Additionally matter obviously isn't eternal... it didn't even show up until the recombination period of the universe. Energy on the other hand would fully exist for the duration of an finite / illusionary / emergent time period. Even in the absence of time, it may simply exist in another form and be transformable via some other process.

So you agree with it, because you don't believe God exists?

jan.

I agree with most of it because of accurate statements. I disagree with any other parts because they are not accurate.

 

[Big Chiller]

For something to be eternal means time is a seperate entity that exists infinitely. That hasn't been demonstrated to be the case. Additionally matter obviously isn't eternal... it didn't even show up until the recombination period of the universe. Energy on the other hand would fully exist for the duration of an finite / illusionary / emergent time period. Even in the absence of time, it may simply exist in another form and be transformable via some other process.

This would involve a sequence as in from no time to time or one form to another no?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

This would involve a sequence as in from no time to time or one form to another no?

Possibly. Take M-Theory for example. In that model, our universe is a "brane" of n-dimensions... one of them proposed as being time. But those branes come and go in a much larger structure known as "the bulk" or "Calibi Yao Space". This means one important thing... we really don't know what the heck time is; however, assuming it is a dimension of our universe then there may be other means of change outside of it which may behave similarly or very differently.

 

[Alan McDougall]

Possibly. Take M-Theory for example. In that model, our universe is a "brane" of n-dimensions... one of them proposed as being time. But those branes come and go in a much larger structure known as "the bulk" or "Calibi Yao Space". This means one important thing... we really don't know what the heck time is; however, assuming it is a dimension of our universe then there may be other means of change outside of it which may behave similarly or very differently.

Time and entropy are really two names for the same thing!

Without time the universe would have remained forever at a nonfunctional zero entropy, where abslutely nothing happens.

With time entropy flows always reaching out to maximum entropy and the ultimate death of all thing, us including us mere mortals

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Time and entropy are really two names for the same thing!

Time is a separation of moments in a system. Entropy is the degree of disorder in a system.

Without time the universe would have remained forever at a nonfunctional zero entropy, where abslutely nothing happens.

That might be a possibility. It might not. We don't know enough about reality to say either way.

With time entropy flows always reaching out to maximum entropy and the ultimate death of all thing, us including us mere mortals

Not entirely correct as death is only something that applies to biological life... but close enough.

 

[Big Chiller]

Without time the universe would have remained forever at a nonfunctional zero entropy, where abslutely nothing happens.

No, I think in zero entropy the universe would just go out of existence and not reappear.

 

[Alan McDougall]

Time is a separation of moments in a system. Entropy is the degree of disorder in a system.



That might be a possibility. It might not. We don't know enough about reality to say either way.



Not entirely correct as death is only something that applies to biological life... but close enough.

I know all about entropy being a power station engineer for over some 30 years. By keep the entropic state as low as possible we can increase the efficiency and productivity of our huge turbines

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I know all about entropy being a power station engineer for over some 30 years.

Which explains the incorrect statement that entropy and time are the same thing.

By keep the entropic state as low as possible we can increase the efficiency and productivity of our huge turbines

Correct.

 

[(Q)]

Time and entropy are really two names for the same thing!

I know all about entropy being a power station engineer for over some 30 years.

Hilarious. :bravo:

 

[Sarkus]

Nice try but can you look at this "infinite distance" race run on a circular path as something completed.

Each lap can be begun and ended.
Spectators can watch the runners as they go past each time.
And if watches are reset to t=0 at the start of each lap...
:shrug:

 

[Sarkus]

On a circular path there can only be new beginnings

... he says as he finishes another lap.

 

[Big Chiller]

Each lap can be begun and ended.
Spectators can watch the runners as they go past each time.
And if watches are reset to t=0 at the start of each lap...
:shrug:

This is the begging the question how an infinite number of laps run would look as a whole.

 

[Alan McDougall]

Which explains the incorrect statement that entropy and time are the same thing.



Correct.

Maybe I should have said entropy and time are tightly intertwined and one cannot exist without the other

 

[BWE1]

Can anyone define God into anything at all meaningful? I don't think so but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Can anyone define God into anything at all meaningful? I don't think so but I'm open to suggestions.

Human characteristics being projected onto reality or some aspect(s) of it.

 

[BWE1]

Human characteristics being projected onto reality or some aspect(s) of it.

that's cheating.

 

[Sarkus]

This is the begging the question how an infinite number of laps run would look as a whole.

Very dull I'd imagine. Bit like a Formula 1 race... just a few miles longer.

But the simple answer to that begged question is "I don't know".

Do you now expect me to slap my forehead and go "Doh! Of course - it must have been God" - 'cos that way lies the God of the Gaps.

 

[Big Chiller]

That's it, can we ever have infinite knowledge since we and everything we observe are finite.

 

[Alan McDougall]

That's it, can we ever have infinite knowledge since we and everything we observe are finite.

Something , however, must be infinite and eternal call it God or call it existence. Existence goes further than the creation of our universe, it includes every possibility that the word existence could encompass

 

[Big Chiller]

Yes, God must be eternal and infinite however all possible modalities can not exist infinitely as proven by infinite regress they being possible is enough i.e. only God must exist.