I did say that God is not in this creation, as I'm not in the HTML even if I created it (suppose).
Therefore, God is nowhere.
Secondly, 'creation activity'? The code was created to create whatever has been created, all that matters is the creation of the code.
Where is this single moment of "creation"? Which point?
Its part of the code. How is it defined that it is the electromagnetic force- what gives it its properties- where is the 'information' coming from?
Everything is information depending on the system. Systems define what is information or what is not. A molecule might not have any value of information for X system, but it can present a valuable information for Y system.
Evolution is part of the natural process and thus part of the code... Having evolutionary history doesn't negate the code from being a created thing.
It does. You still didn't define what do you mean by code. If you mean DNA, in this case DNA is not created either. It evolved through chemical agreements through time, and still evolving using species.
"Starting point, or end point" for things in existence- but I'm not talking about 'things'- I'm talking about laws (i.e code), you can't demonstrate they don't have a beginning or an end.
Sorry, it doesn't work like that: You will claim something has a starting and/or finishing point and I will prove otherwise. The idea behind my claim is simple. If:
a) any occurrence has a history behind it, that is to say "doesn't appear out of nowhere" but progress through time and used by another beings/systems
b) any occurrence does not disappear out of existence but transforms into something else
Therefore you can not talk about absolute starting and end points.
A system of code can be written in another system of code.
What a bold claim. Yes you can write it down; but the problem is this: Does it work?
What is physics? Its simply the field that tries to duplicate the physical world into a systematic code that is understandable to us in the form of Math.
Here is a definition for you from Wikipedia:
Physics (Ancient Greek: φύσις physis "nature") is a natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space-time, as well as all applicable concepts, such as energy and force. More broadly, it is the general analysis of nature, conducted in order to understand how the universe behaves
This definition doesn't talk about duplication or anything for a good reason: Because duplication or making working systems depending upon scientific knowledge is "technology". If you find any definition of physics that mixes up science and technology, you can bring it up, we can have a look.
Since we can write a code for describing the world, it is then possible that the Universe is is based on a code.
First, you don't write a code to describe the world, you simply try to formulate the actual happenings in order to understand. Therefore, your conclusion of "Universe is based on a code" is similar to claim that "God exists", pure imagination and unsubstantiated supposition.
Your assumption is that DNA is not created... if it is a product of a code that was created then it is created...
DNA is not a product of a code. DNA is the code for the most of the living thing (viruses that works on RNA is excluded, yet if you think that viruses needs a DNA host to survive we can say the "all" living things instead of the most).
And since DNA is not product of a code, according to your logic, it shouldn't be the result of creation. Because your logic makes DNA as a creation "if" DNA was coming from a code. Since this is not the case, will you modify your statement, will you prove or argue that DNA is coming from a code (where was it written before DNA, how did it emerge? etc.), or will you find another excuse to insist upon "creation"? Which one?
Secondly your assumption is that the creator can not choose to send input commands to the code to create something after a billion years.. The 'billion years' mean nothing for a creator who isn't even in the time zone.... Time is relative? For all we know it could have been created 'instantly' but which is relatively billion years?
My assumption is simple: There is no creator. I designed the subject example in order to clarify what type of "creator" you are talking about; not because of my understanding of a creator; I don't have any image of creator in my mind. And I hope we don't compare the local time zones between God and us; we are discussing an assumption of instant creation claim vs. evolving structures of the universe. If we can follow the elements of process when we look at natural beings, therefore this process requires certain steps: It's against the idea of being 0 and suddenly being 1.
There is a difference in how you view the world. A creator vs no creator.
My world view is not "a creator vs no creator"; it's probably your world view and you are clearly standing behind the creator side. My one is simpler: "What creator"?
Secondly I said that it can be logically assumed (if one wishes to make the assumption) that a creator exists- not that it must exist.. If there is no difference why don't you give up the idea that it was all nature, as you seem to suggest there is no difference?
You are imposing the idea of a "creator" without explaining the "logic" (that's what you call it) or the story behind this assumption. Plus, you are also claiming that there is no structural difference between the numbers of creators. Moreover, you are using natural or human made technology in order to argue your God idea (and "the logic behind it") without giving any clue about what this God is made of, where does it stay or what is the limits of its power. You can not, because the answers of these questions are nothing, nowhere/everywhere and limitless respectively. This kind of logic or argument is not a type of logic I am familiar with.
"Logical assumption" is not something that you can say anything you like and claim it as "logical". "Logical assumption" requires some proposition, statement that can be tested (this is very important: tested) according to certain parameters; it must be arguable according to the rules. If you are talking about a "creator", or a "God", this is not a "logical" argument, it's only a claim.
Sure... I already made this point before... You acknowledge a creator that you know exists within the code- not one external to it.. There is no surprise in that.
Within the code, within the code: What code?
Go ask a physicist what the fundamental laws of the physical world are, that lead to everything... I don't have to write a physics books on this forum.
So you can freely claim that physical universe perform on codes, more dramatically you believe in this, but when someone asks you "what are they?" you simply divert the topic to physics books and other excuses. You simply show me a source, a site, a textbook where I can check out your "universe on code" claim is mentioned, then I will go and check it, promise.
Guess what you are not able to do that...
Well because you don't accept the assumption. That's your choice. But the assumption is not illogical.
Don't confuse an argument vs proof.
Already explained; not logical, just a wishful thinking. And for the proof... Proof of which argument?
I already have.
Just for yourself, unbeknown to us.
Unfortuantely the discussion is not about the specifics of religions, ie. their laws and so forth. Its about God.... Physicists work under the assumption that the physical world can be described in a mathematical model- if not, they wouldn't continue their research. There is not a 'continous proof' this assumption.. The assumption that everything is physical can never be proven.
Physics don't work with assumptions; at least not the type of "assumption" in your mind. Fitting into mathematics is not a criteria for Physics, there are calculations in physics that ends up with "infinity" and this is simply meaningless. But this doesn't stop physicists in terms of "continuing their research", they still try to approach differently. Because problem is still there; for instance: Black holes. What are they going to do know? "Black holes doesn't match up with our maths, so let's drop this topic." Is that so? What if current mathematical modelling is not enough to describe what is going on?
"The assumption that everything is physical can never be proven" you say. This is absolutely right: For instance, idea of God can not be physically proven. Because it's not the subject of physics. If you go back the definition I provided above, physics deals with physical things, with nature. "Everything" is not even a concept. Because anybody can fill the contents of "Everything" with "anything" they like. Physics obviously can not deal with this type of arbitrary approach.
Why? When the point is not to support any specific God but the idea of a creator...
Lets take God to be: a creator of the universe.. Simple...
If you want to name this God you can say he is from the religion 786ism.. Happy now?
No further description is needed for the purposes of discussing a creator. He can be black, white, not all knowing whatever.. All other characteristics apart from being the creator would be irrelevant to the discussion in an argument for a 'creator' (nothing else).
Is this a conclusion, because it sounds like one. If you do not want to discuss the existence of God, it is your thing, I can understand. But don't try to impose a strange idea that the existence of God is irrelevant to this topic. It may not be relevant for you, but some people might want to know the subject of discussion.
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